Posts belonging to Category 'Yoga Stretch'

I already start to make yoga alone

Question:

Thank you all of you for your kindness. Yes I shall do yoga of course nothing can stop me now. I’m convinced that I have to do it because my body, health and intuition told me yes. Two months ago I was another man. I had bloodpresure, I smoke, obesity a.s.o. I stop to use meat, salt, cigarette and to do yoga and look in 2 month is a miracle. Of course I’m nervous because of the cigarette – it’s a drug and is not easy to stop it. The anxiety is from cigarette. In anyway my health is improved.

John, its likely the ginseng will help you and ginseng taken sometimes is good for you. But don’t keep taking it. I would hate to have to fight someone who took ginseng. Ginseng makes you aggressive. The meat and cigarettes act as stimulants on your brain also. Your body is just catching up with getting back to normal. Soy protein however is very powerful and especially when combined with exercise. Vitamin C is quite surprising in this area as well. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See you Gentlemen’s, I already start to make alone Yoga two months ago following some books, I mean hatha yoga. I start also to eat only vegetable and milk, kefir, yoghurt. I don’t eat meat anymore. I stop to smoke too. I drink only coffee too much and is not healthy. I feel great with a lot of energy, I lost 7 Kg in 2 months. My health is brilliant. But the problems is that my sexual appetite is finished. I don’t need a woman anymore. Is it normal ? I mean I’m married and I have some duties to do. Anyone can advice? Thanks in advance.

Response:

As far as I know, that would be it. The sitting posture, breathing and time held may vary with different teachers. There is no butt squeezing involved. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this Asvini Mudra? Sit erect in padmasana. Exhale. Hold the breath and pull up the anus by contracting the sphincter; hold for about 10 seconds and inhale. Release the anus. Repeat this rhythmically about 10 to 30 times. Benefits:

I can't stay motivated

Question:

Thanks, I was getting a complex. Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Laura, I think you misquoted Lee (Miss Violette); she ’s actually doing really great on WW and has lost lots of pounds ! Maybe you wanted to reply to Spoons, who is having a difficult time ? best, — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/112.2/minigoal 111.4/Goal 68 Kg 295.6/247.4/minigoal 245.6/Goal 150 pounds NAFC 253.8/247.4/238 Hi Miss Violette……To be honest i don’t think you are ready for weight watchers yet.Take a break from the plan and forget about it then have another go! Sorry you are having a bad time, and the bad part here is that we all go through this.  The good part is that you haven’t given up because you are starting over each day, good luck, Lee Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week. I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

THANK YOU! What an awesome azz kickin post…I am saving your post to read everyday and keep me motivated and on program! :-) Thanks, Carmen

~SigCity~

Response:

Carmen… I found Tony to be very rude to talk like that it did nothing for me…some people like yourself get off on stuff  like that so enjoy it!   THANK YOU! What an awesome azz kickin post…I am saving your post to   read everyday and keep me motivated and on program! :-)   Thanks, Carmen   ~SigCity~

Response:

Hi Miss Violette……To be honest i don’t think you are ready for weight watchers yet.Take a break from the plan and forget about it then have another go!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry you are having a bad time, and the bad part here is that we all go through this.  The good part is that you haven’t given up because you are starting over each day, good luck, Lee Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week. I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Hi Laura, I think you misquoted Lee (Miss Violette); she ’s actually doing really great on WW and has lost lots of pounds ! Maybe you wanted to reply to Spoons, who is having a difficult time ? best, — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/112.2/minigoal 111.4/Goal 68 Kg 295.6/247.4/minigoal 245.6/Goal 150 pounds NAFC 253.8/247.4/238

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Miss Violette……To be honest i don’t think you are ready for weight watchers yet.Take a break from the plan and forget about it then have another go! Sorry you are having a bad time, and the bad part here is that we all go through this.  The good part is that you haven’t given up because you are starting over each day, good luck, Lee Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week. I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Glad you are better, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and comments. I lost focus for a brief moment but I’m back on track now thanks to all of you.  And yes I started this in mind to get healthier for my kids & for myself.  After reading all the posts I now know what I need to do & NO!  I’m not giving up I came this far & I’m sticking too it. I would’ve posted sooner but I was busy getting back in control and focusing on my goal.  I went to the library took out some WW’s cookbooks I figure that some new recipes will add some spice to my boring regular menus.  I also found "Energy Break Through" by Sarah The Duchess Of York.  It’s really good & I can’t put it down.  Has anyone else read it?  I’ve made my list of why I want to stay OP to get to goal and I like the idea that Isabella had of putting pictures in the journal but instead of cutting out pictures from magazines I’m going to put a picture of me at my heaviest along side a picture of  a thinner me when I was happy with my weight.  That should give me something to look at when I get down. Like most of you I too have tried different weight loss plans before starting WW’s.  That’s when I realized that in July 2002 I weighed 183 then tried Atkins and slim fast then I stopped & took a little break to find what would be right for me…that’s when I found WW’s & this amazing group.  So since then in total I’ve lost 17 lbs and looking at it that way instead of just the 9 lbs  lost on WW’s..I know I can’t give up now since I’ve lost so much already. Again I want to thank you all for your great posts & I hope that down the road I can be helpful to you when you’re in need of a pick me up. Thanks a bunch & Big Hugs SPOONS Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week. I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

This is a great post pr, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ve already received lots of feedback with much for you to think about. If I can add my $.02 worth, I suggest that you try not to be so hard on yourself. Beating yourself up, feeling guilty or not happy with yourself, can itself be DE-motivating and can be a setup for self-sabotage. If you’re someone who eats as a "pick-me-up" or to make yourself feel better, then you can see how feeling bad about not staying OP can actually be a trigger. Maybe you need to look at all the things going on in your life–all the stresses of having young children, financial concerns, etc.–and consider the possibility that now may not be the right time for you to be embarked on a weight loss program. You can want to lose weight and want to be thinner, but there are other forces at work that just don’t make that feasible right now. It’s OK if you decide that you’ve lost enough weight for now. You can come back to it any time. You know, weighing 175 or 166 or 140 does not make you a bad person or a good person. Your weight is not a measure of your worth, it’s not an reflection of your character, it’s not a judgment of any kind. It’s a statistic, that’s all. A statistic that indicates relative health perhaps, but it says nothing at all about who and how you are as a mental, emotional, or spiritual human being. All that said, if there’s a part of that’s motivated and a part of you that isn’t, maybe you could try getting to know the unmotivated part. What is it trying to tell you? I’ve heard of some people using the acronym HALT when they find themselves wanting to eat something unplanned. They ask themselves if they’re Hungry? Angry? Lonely? Tired? If they’re genuinely hungry, they eat foods that fit according to their food plan. If they’re any of the latter three, they find other means to address those emotional and physical needs. Good luck figuring out what’s right for you. I’ll sure be thinking about you. — Prairie Roots 232/215.5/10% 209/157 == Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

What a good idea, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi…i haven’t been on the program long…lol, today was my first meeting….:) But on the way home i went and bought a notebook to make a journal.  I am going to call it "The Journey"….and i am planning on putting pictures, recipes, any good advice, and thoughts down.  I am also cutting out successful weight loss photos that i cut out of a recent magazine.  I know that i am going to have days when i might want to throw in the towel and i am hoping that this journal will help me stay on course.  Maybe something like this would help you? isabela

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week. I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Glad to hear that things are looking up for you, Spoons. Elaine K 331.4/190.2/179 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and comments. I lost focus for a brief moment but I’m back on track now thanks to all of you.  And yes I started this in mind to get healthier for my kids & for myself.  After reading all the posts I now know what I need to do & NO!  I’m not giving up I came this far & I’m sticking too it. I would’ve posted sooner but I was busy getting back in control and focusing on my goal.  I went to the library took out some WW’s cookbooks I figure that some new recipes will add some spice to my boring regular menus.  I also found "Energy Break Through" by Sarah The Duchess Of York.  It’s really good & I can’t put it down.  Has anyone else read it?  I’ve made my list of why I want to stay OP to get to goal and I like the idea that Isabella had of putting pictures in the journal but instead of cutting out pictures from magazines I’m going to put a picture of me at my heaviest along side a picture of  a thinner me when I was happy with my weight.  That should give me something to look at when I get down. Like most of you I too have tried different weight loss plans before starting WW’s.  That’s when I realized that in July 2002 I weighed 183 then tried Atkins and slim fast then I stopped & took a little break to find what would be right for me…that’s when I found WW’s & this amazing group.  So since then in total I’ve lost 17 lbs and looking at it that way instead of just the 9 lbs  lost on WW’s..I know I can’t give up now since I’ve lost so much already. Again I want to thank you all for your great posts & I hope that down the road I can be helpful to you when you’re in need of a pick me up. Thanks a bunch & Big Hugs SPOONS Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Sorry you are having a bad time, and the bad part here is that we all go through this.  The good part is that you haven’t given up because you are starting over each day, good luck, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and comments. I lost focus for a brief moment but I’m back on track now thanks to all of you.  And yes I started this in mind to get healthier for my kids & for myself.  After reading all the posts I now know what I need to do & NO!  I’m not giving up I came this far & I’m sticking too it. I would’ve posted sooner but I was busy getting back in control and focusing on my goal.  I went to the library took out some WW’s cookbooks I figure that some new recipes will add some spice to my boring regular menus.  I also found "Energy Break Through" by Sarah The Duchess Of York.  It’s really good & I can’t put it down.  Has anyone else read it?  I’ve made my list of why I want to stay OP to get to goal and I like the idea that Isabella had of putting pictures in the journal but instead of cutting out pictures from magazines I’m going to put a picture of me at my heaviest along side a picture of  a thinner me when I was happy with my weight.  That should give me something to look at when I get down. Like most of you I too have tried different weight loss plans before starting WW’s.  That’s when I realized that in July 2002 I weighed 183 then tried Atkins and slim fast then I stopped & took a little break to find what would be right for me…that’s when I found WW’s & this amazing group.  So since then in total I’ve lost 17 lbs and looking at it that way instead of just the 9 lbs  lost on WW’s..I know I can’t give up now since I’ve lost so much already. Again I want to thank you all for your great posts & I hope that down the road I can be helpful to you when you’re in need of a pick me up. Thanks a bunch & Big Hugs SPOONS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

can itself be DE-motivating and can be a setup for self-sabotage. If you’re someone who eats as a "pick-me-up" or to make yourself feel better, then you can see how feeling bad about not staying OP can actually be a trigger. Maybe you need to look at all the things going on in your life–all the stresses of having young children, financial concerns, etc.–and consider the possibility that now may not be the right time for you to be embarked on a weight loss program. You can want to lose weight and want to be thinner, but there are other forces at work that just don’t make that feasible right now. It’s OK if you decide that you’ve lost enough weight for now. You can come back to it any time.

you know, this was really a wonderful post.  i agree completely and love that last quoted point. it’s important for us to take things in our time, in our own way, and not be so bloody hard on ourselves.  today is just the right time for me to be doing weight watcher’s, but last year at this time wasn’t. everything in its own time, when we’re ready.   that’s not to say we don’t all have little challenges within that ‘ready’ time, but if we are fighting so hard against ourselves, perhaps we’re being unreasonable and setting ourselves up for continued failure rather than eventual success. just giving ourselves permission to make that choice is, i think, tremendously freeing – and rational!   it can free us to stay on program knowing it doesn’t have to be such a struggle – we can take a break whenever we want. jill 230.6/193.4/145

Response:

Hi Spoons. I would like to have an explanation for your constant hunger. Would the explanation be in what you eat? Please tell me everything you ate yesterday, for instance. Eating a cookie is certainly not a good idea! As others pointed out, one cookie will lead you to another. The domino effect! In my case, I pretty much eat everything I used to. The difference is that I now eat REASONABLY, that is that I cut my portions of food by 40% and eat one dessert a day instead of two or three like I used to. As well, I keep the following items for Saturdays: Cookies, pies, fries, cakes. Still, I take a reasonable portion – I choose the small box or container. I no longer eat junk food like bretzels, chips, pops, etc. They are now my ennemies. If you are starving, then you should change your food. As for the exercice, I have been told that you need one hour of stationary bike for seven days to lose 1 pound. I think that exercice makes you lose weight on the long run only. Denis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Wow, very well said Suzy!  I am always telling my kids that life is full of decisions, theirs to make – but they do have to take responsibility for and live with the repercussions of any and all choices they make.  They are not allowed to blame *problems* on others or hit me with constant excuses, as they are directly responsible for their own actions.  I find that this attitude (good or bad) tends to apply to all aspects of life.  I also agree with the money issue.  Dh came in from the store today complaining about the price of fruit this week … I answered with, "and how much did those 2 bags of chips cost you?  Aren’t we worth the price of fruit?"  He did laugh, did agree and stopped complaining.  When I do some deep soul searching, I realized that I easily threw away more money on convenience and junk food than what I spend on ww or healthier food items.  Heck, I probably *wasted* more money on crappy clothing that was seldom worn – trying to find that magic button that would make me feel good about myself!  And I won’t even get into the dollar amount of baseball equipment that passes through our doors. <grin  WW is not cheap, but again .. we are worth it.  The online program is only $15 or so a month, granted you don’t get the meetings but you do get the knowledge of the program.  I believe the storefront program is $10/week – again, easy to cut back on *something* to find those finances.  A friend was/is the queen of complaining about finances and not having money to pay her bills … yet she continues to smoke over 3 packs a day (no exageration!) at the cost of close to $4/pack … which I figure to be close to $100/week easily – and eats/feeds her family every meal outside of the home which is also not cheap.   I am a smoker also (bad me) so sure won’t deny her of her purchases … but geeeeeeeesh, quit complaining …. guess it goes right back to my original statement of *life is full of choices, assume responsibility for those you make*. Joyce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Isn’t WW great that you have lost 9 pounds while not staying OP? No time for exercise?  Do you watch TV?  Spend time on the computer?  How do you find time for those things? No money for WW?  Did someone give you the cookies or did you buy them? I don’t mean to be rude, just pointing out that we always have time and money for the things that are important to us.  Also trying to get you to look at things a little differently. Good luck. — SuzyQ Weight 128 125 NAFC and personal goal WW Lifetime Membership Feb 03 SSC http://www.chiefimaging.com/asdww/index.htm Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS

– started ww 2/5/02 —  228.8/145.5/150ww goal/140ish personal goal WW GOAL!!!  2/21/03 NAFC website can be found at:  http://home.earthlink.net/~jaw179/

Response:

Exercise is great, but it isn’t essential to weight loss … so don’t use that as an excuse.  I am horrible in the exercise department, but still have been successful in the weightloss.  I sure wish I could help you in the motivation department, but you know that can only come from within yourself.  What started you on this journey?  Maybe you need to take a step back and really look at that, as well as how important shedding those extra pounds is to you.  If it truly is important to you, then don’t let the other things get in your way.  I know life with toddlers can be very hectic and tiring … but it doesn’t get any better as they get older, only gets different.  I hate to tell you how many times (most all the time) I feel that I live my life doing nothing but meeting everyone else’s needs, by the end of the day there is nothing left for me.  All this managed to do was to throw me into a deep depression (twice now) and leave me unfunctionable. When I got the depression under control, I got myself under control.  It is very important to make and take time for yourself, meet your own needs.  Yes, you do need to take care of those little ones of yours, but you also need to know that it is very important for you to take care of *you* too!  This includes meeting your own needs and desires.  If you want to exercise, you can still do it with the kids.  Let them exercise along with you – make a game out of it.  I used to put music on and dance with the kids … or an exercise video and let them do their version of the routines.  Again, it comes down to what you really want and need – kids will adapt easily. If those cookies are your downfall, then remove them from your home!  Replace with fruit – you’ll still satisfy those fruit cravings.  Yes, one cookie WILL hurt – as they usually only lead to one more, and one more – pretty self-defeating in my book.  Your kids are young enough to not care and not miss them.  No reason why they can’t also snack on berries or melon, apple slices, pear slices – wonderful and healthy sweet treats.  And think of the benefits you will be teaching them for their future! You can do this without officially joining ww or going to meetings, but again, the drive and motivation has to come from within yourself.  I have not attended one single ww meeting, although I did join the online program just to give me the knowledge as to how the program worked.  The 80+ lost pounds have been on my own and due to changes I made in my own life (such as taking care of my mental health problems and making *me* a priority).   If you feel better about yourself, the rest will fall into place.   C’mon spoons – I know you can do this if you really want to.  I have faith in you – but you have to have that same faith!  Don’t let anyone or anything get in your way. Joyce — started ww 2/5/02 —  228.8/145.5/150ww goal/140ish personal goal WW GOAL!!!  2/21/03 NAFC website can be found at:  http://home.earthlink.net/~jaw179/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

You’ve already received lots of feedback with much for you to think about. If I can add my $.02 worth, I suggest that you try not to be so hard on yourself. Beating yourself up, feeling guilty or not happy with yourself, can itself be DE-motivating and can be a setup for self-sabotage. If you’re someone who eats as a "pick-me-up" or to make yourself feel better, then you can see how feeling bad about not staying OP can actually be a trigger. Maybe you need to look at all the things going on in your life–all the stresses of having young children, financial concerns, etc.–and consider the possibility that now may not be the right time for you to be embarked on a weight loss program. You can want to lose weight and want to be thinner, but there are other forces at work that just don’t make that feasible right now. It’s OK if you decide that you’ve lost enough weight for now. You can come back to it any time. You know, weighing 175 or 166 or 140 does not make you a bad person or a good person. Your weight is not a measure of your worth, it’s not an reflection of your character, it’s not a judgment of any kind. It’s a statistic, that’s all. A statistic that indicates relative health perhaps, but it says nothing at all about who and how you are as a mental, emotional, or spiritual human being. All that said, if there’s a part of that’s motivated and a part of you that isn’t, maybe you could try getting to know the unmotivated part. What is it trying to tell you? I’ve heard of some people using the acronym HALT when they find themselves wanting to eat something unplanned. They ask themselves if they’re Hungry? Angry? Lonely? Tired? If they’re genuinely hungry, they eat foods that fit according to their food plan. If they’re any of the latter three, they find other means to address those emotional and physical needs. Good luck figuring out what’s right for you. I’ll sure be thinking about you. — Prairie Roots 232/215.5/10% 209/157 ==   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

I think the tiredness & being sick have really done you in. Is there anyway you can take a mini vacation? Will someone take the kids so that you can have a weekend for yourself? I’m also a person who has trouble keeping on program when I’m exhausted & with 2 kids you are always tired. I can’t offer you any help or more advice but here’s a big hug for you. Elaine K 331.4/190.2/179 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Isn’t WW great that you have lost 9 pounds while not staying OP? No time for exercise?  Do you watch TV?  Spend time on the computer?  How do you find time for those things? No money for WW?  Did someone give you the cookies or did you buy them? I don’t mean to be rude, just pointing out that we always have time and money for the things that are important to us.  Also trying to get you to look at things a little differently. Good luck. — SuzyQ Weight 128 125 NAFC and personal goal WW Lifetime Membership Feb 03 SSC http://www.chiefimaging.com/asdww/index.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Hi Spoons, you’re obviously having a bad time.  No one that I know stays motivated 100% of the time, when you’re not, act "as if", and stay OP only because you’ll feel worse the next day if you don’t. You may look at my loss of almost 55 pounds and think "she’s motivated", well I’m not.  I have days, though not often anymore, where I just want to eat everything in sight, but I have learned nothing tastes as good as I think it’s going to, so it’s not worth the next day’s anger and frustration of going off OP. I have a wonderful 2 1/2 year old grandson who calls me ‘mama’, and I want to be a ‘mama’ for a long, long time, not only to him but others who may come along.  You have two adorable babies who need a mommie who can run and play with them, watch them grow up, and be there.  Think about them, make that your focus and motivation for the time being. Hang on, it does get easier.  Hugs to you and your lovely babies. Linda 252/197.2/3rd 10%-184 NAFC goa-198 (SPOONS) Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs. Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath. It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated. I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points. I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused. I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week. I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep. But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water. After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused. I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option. Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Dear Spoons, First of all, 9 lbs in 11 weeks is .8 lbs a week — perfectly within the WW suggested .5-2.0 lbs per week. Second, if you continue at this rate you will have lost 41.6 lbs in one year which would put you way below your goal. Third, some people turn their days around and start with their full allotment of points just before dinner, then count tomorrow’s breakfast, lunch, afternoon snack. Then start over again. Fourth, exercise is nice but not nice enough to get all fixated about. I have a friend who lost 25 lbs on WW without ever exercising at all. She joined our walking group *after* getting to lifetime. So, exercise because it feels good, or helps you sleep better if you yoga stretch before bed, or gives you a fun activity in front of the TV with the little ones (libraries have exercise videotapes for free). Hang in there girl. We are all here rooting for you. — Anne Rudolph "It’s not having what you want; it’s wanting what you’ve got." — Sheryl Crow 162/128.8/132 http://home.covad.net/~arudolph/annes.htm

Response:

Hi…i haven’t been on the program long…lol, today was my first meeting….:) But on the way home i went and bought a notebook to make a journal.  I am going to call it "The Journey"….and i am planning on putting pictures, recipes, any good advice, and thoughts down.  I am also cutting out successful weight loss photos that i cut out of a recent magazine.  I know that i am going to have days when i might want to throw in the towel and i am hoping that this journal will help me stay on course.  Maybe something like this would help you? isabela

I think maybe you’ve found something that will help me motivate me. I need something to reflect upon, and this sounds great. Thanks :) — Roseann 250 (post baby 2001) 188.5 (3/2003) 140 (goal) Worrying does not empty tomorrow of its troubles, it empties today of its strength.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week. I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Joyce, DH and I were having almost this exact conversation.  Groceries aren’t cheap, but neither were the dinners out or all the delivered pizzas. We used to throw out a fair amount of food since I never planned meals, but just went to the store and grabbed whatever looked good. Now, I plan our dinners for the whole week (chicken on Sundays, fish on Fridays, date night on Saturday) based on the grocery store ad and our schedules.  Some nights we just have Boca burgers.  We try new recipes from the WW site, from magazines (like Health), from cookbooks, from Dotti’s, etc.  We keep old favorites around. We order pizza occassionally.  But all of it is planned.   Now when I go shopping I know exactly what we need.  We use that stuff and hardly throw anything out.   When I first starting going over my goal weight and having to pay for meetings, I would skip a week here and there to avoid paying. However, I finally decided that I lost the weight in the first place by attending weekly meetings and that was what I needed to be doing to lose the weight I’ve gained back.  Yes, it’s expensive, but still a lot cheaper than buying new clothes. Okay, now I’ve run on… Best, Diane 157/153/146 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, very well said Suzy!  I am always telling my kids that life is full of decisions, theirs to make – but they do have to take responsibility for and live with the repercussions of any and all choices they make.  They are not allowed to blame *problems* on others or hit me with constant excuses, as they are directly responsible for their own actions.  I find that this attitude (good or bad) tends to apply to all aspects of life.  I also agree with the money issue.  Dh came in from the store today complaining about the price of fruit this week … I answered with, "and how much did those 2 bags of chips cost you?  Aren’t we worth the price of fruit?"  He did laugh, did agree and stopped complaining.  When I do some deep soul searching, I realized that I easily threw away more money on convenience and junk food than what I spend on ww or healthier food items.  Heck, I probably *wasted* more money on crappy clothing that was seldom worn – trying to find that magic button that would make me feel good about myself!  And I won’t even get into the dollar amount of baseball equipment that passes through our doors. <grin  WW is not cheap, but again .. we are worth it.  The online program is only $15 or so a month, granted you don’t get the meetings but you do get the knowledge of the program.  I believe the storefront program is $10/week – again, easy to cut back on *something* to find those finances.  A friend was/is the queen of complaining about finances and not having money to pay her bills … yet she continues to smoke over 3 packs a day (no exageration!) at the cost of close to $4/pack … which I figure to be close to $100/week easily – and eats/feeds her family every meal outside of the home which is also not cheap.   I am a smoker also (bad me) so sure won’t deny her of her purchases … but geeeeeeeesh, quit complaining …. guess it goes right back to my original statement of *life is full of choices, assume responsibility for those you make*. Joyce Isn’t WW great that you have lost 9 pounds while not staying OP? No time for exercise?  Do you watch TV?  Spend time on the computer?  How do you find time for those things? No money for WW?  Did someone give you the cookies or did you buy them? I don’t mean to be rude, just pointing out that we always have time and money for the things that are important to us.  Also trying to get you to look at things a little differently. Good luck. — SuzyQ Weight 128 125 NAFC and personal goal WW Lifetime Membership Feb 03 SSC http://www.chiefimaging.com/asdww/index.htm Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS

– Help the women of Afganistan http://www.rawa.org/ "You despise me, don’t you?" "If I gave you any thought, I probably would."

Response:

Hi…i haven’t been on the program long…lol, today was my first meeting….:) But on the way home i went and bought a notebook to make a journal.  I am going to call it "The Journey"….and i am planning on putting pictures, recipes, any good advice, and thoughts down.  I am also cutting out successful weight loss photos that i cut out of a recent magazine.  I know that i am going to have days when i might want to throw in the towel and i am hoping that this journal will help me stay on course.  Maybe something like this would help you? isabela – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs.  Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath.  It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water.  After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Hi, It would probably be a heluva good idea if you took your own sig line to heart. It’s pretty obvious you haven’t got your eye on the goal…..or maybe there’s no goal? It really sounds for all the world like you just don’t want to do this. I know that you *tell yourself* that’s not so, but remember: "I judge me by my intentions; the world judges me by my results." So before you begin protesting, ask yourself if there is any truth in this. You’re missing the boat, girl! I don’t know of anyone whose "motivation" is at peak pitch all the time. Mine certainly isn’t. I’ve gone through a one-month stall (in Feb), and on a number of days I was ready to scrap the whole deal. But then, I’ve always been "flash and dash" — great beginnings, but little or no finish… Sound familiar? Back in October I discovered I’d lost 19 lb after surgery. I decided to keep the momentum going by signing up for WW At-Home. Since then, there have been some days when I’ve wondered, "What was I thinking?" But somewhere in there was the ‘click,’ and a commitment to stay the course. I’m struggling. I deal with chronic pain, chronic clinical depression and a whole history of self-destructive behavior every single day. But there is a commitment — don’t ask me how — and I will not quit. I may screw up, but I will not *give up.* Now I maintain that if I can do this, *anyone* can do this. I know that I’m accused of being the resident ass-kicker, and that some of the things I post seem harsh. Fine. I can live with that. I gotta live with me, not you. But when you come here and say things like, "One cookie won’t hurt.." who do you think you’re kidding? First of all, you’re obviously thinking of this whole thing like a "diet." You’re screwed before you even open your mouth. If you want the excess weight to go away, you have to *live* differently. This is no panty-waist little lark through Dietland, after which you will be beautiful, eat the way you always did and live skinnily ever after! This is real life, and I’m sorry to report it’s not pretty. Tough! If you want to succeed at this program, YOU are going to have to make the necessary changes. And they are made in between your ears, not with your hand on the refrigerator door! You want to be thin and healthy? You want to look good? You want to amaze your friends and loved ones? Then start doing the things that support that, and stop screwing around!! Look, there is NO ONE here who cannot eat a cookie, unless it’s a trigger. On this program, as you most likely know, there are NO forbidden foods. So don’t look for sympathy by blaming the food. IT’S YOUR CHOICE. But first you have to want it. You have to want it badly enough to be willing to make a commitment to yourself. The fact that you seem unable to commit indicates that you’re using the food to cover something else. And that’s usually fear, anxiety, a "knowing" that you’re unworthy and don’t deserve to be well. In other words, you’re a junkie, pure and simple. You get off on food, and you use it to medicate all the bad feelings that come up in your life….and they come up a lot! Well, you need to sit yourself down and write out all this horses$#t you’ve been telling yourself, and then ask yourself, "If someone came to me and said this, what would I tell them?" You need to come to the understanding that all the stuff you’re stuffing is lies, lies, lies. If you *really* weren’t "good enough" to do this, if you *really* didn’t deserve better than you’re treating yourself, you wouldn’t be here. You’d be dead. The very fact that you’re breathing means you’re good enough. And you can do what people who are good enough can do — that is, you can commit to treating yourself like you really count. I don’t care what you have to go through. I don’t care if you have health problems, abuse issues, an inner brat who won’t shut up.. You tell that little b%^*d to get lost! You adopt a policy of ZERO tolerance, and start doing the thing like you mean it, not like a damn "diet!" You’re worth it, you have every right to succeed and thrive, and it’s time to get the show on the road! And you’d better keep in mind that you cannot do it alone. That’s why this group and others are here. Need live people? Can’t afford meetings? Call Overeaters Anonymous — a buck in the basket is all you need, and you don’t even need that! Call TOPS — maybe ten or twenty bucks a YEAR plus local dues (usually pretty cheap). If you want it, it’s here for you. And so are we. Special case? Uh-uh. Pity pot? Forget it. Commitment, one day at a time? Now you’re talking! Your move. Best of luck with whatever you decide, Tony Florida 278/227/155 (since Jul 26, ‘02) NAFC = 220

. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m on my 11th week on ww’s and so far I’ve lost 9 lbs. Sunday’s are my wi’s so I’m hopping for a lose but I’m not holding my breath. It’s been about 2 weeks now that I’m not motivated.  I start each day saying "OK today I’m staying OP" but by the time dinner comes around I’m pretty much done my points.  I’ve lost my motivation & I’m not focused.  I want to exercise but never have the time I’m so tired and I’ve been sick for the last week.  I have 2 toddlers so the only time I can do exercise is either early morning or at night when they go to sleep.  But I’m not even motivated to do that. OK I know I’m using my kids as an excuse for me being lazy but I’m really pooped by the time 8pm rolls around. My form of exercise is that I bought an exercise ball and so far have used 3 times. I’ve been journaling everyday & trying to get in my water. After lunch I usually get a craving and then say…one cookie won’t hurt…etc. I’m really not happy with myself on how fast I’ve lost my drive to stay on the program. I need to think of things to get me motivated again & stay focused.  I guess imaging a thinner me is motivation enough but NOPE the image fades away. By the way, I’m not a member of ww’s so I’m doing this on my own with whatever info I find off the net & on this amazing group. So going to a meeting is not an option.  Just can’t fit it in our budget. SPOONS 175/166/140 Total loss 9 lbs Started WW’s Jan 19, 2003 "An obstacle is something you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

Response:

Ideal Day Astream

Question:

Up with the sun, the daily yoga/stretch/run, shit/shave/shower,

(snip really good plan) feast on the feast with a bottle of good red wine, follow it up with a wee bit more scotch

and hit the hay shortly after sundown.

    oh, for god’s sake, forty.  and you were doing *so* well!     you left out…changer la femme… Repeat.

    well, sure, if you’re both up to it… Sounds great but missing only one element. wayno, enlighten the boy. . .

Peter     all i can say, peetah, is that i have tried for the last time.  it’s a helluva undertaking, even for me. your bodhisattva in the old north state wayno Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Up with the sun, the daily yoga/stretch/run, shit/shave/shower,

Ken, No offense, but how can it be an ideal day when you shit/shave/shower when most would agree that the proper order is shit/shower/shave? Scott

Response:

Scotty, I usually forgo shaving. john ..beardless in Dayton

Response:

Scotty, I usually forgo shaving. john ..beardless in Dayton

That really is an ideal day, then! Scott

Response:

Up with the sun, the daily yoga/stretch/run, shit/shave/shower, followed by a leisurely, decadent breakfast. Pack the vest with a hearty lunch and be at the trailhead by 10-10:30. [snip]

Get up at 4:30 AM and catch some shut-eye on the couch so as not to wake up wife around daybreak.  Think about hitting the head but why bother? Grab a Twinkie and a Haagen Daz Dark-Chocolate coated Vanilla ic-cream bar for breakfast at the 24 hour gas station.  Show up at the parking spot about 1/2 hour late but still just around dawn.  "My Child was Inmate of the Month at County Jail".  Yep, I’m bleary-eyed but that bumper sticker tells me that it is in fact LB’s car that’s parked there already.  Trudge past some knee-aching, never ending, sand dunes and head to the foamy warm water discharge from the power plant.  Smell a dead dolphin carcass about 50 paces before it comes within visible range – some sort of neurotoxic algae bloom has been making the sea mammals go berzerk and wash up on shore.  Pelicans are dive-bombing the surf.  Wave a good morning to LB who is fighting a fish by the time I get my boots wet.  His 6 earings are glistening in the low morning sun which has just poked its nose over the horizon.  The tattoos on his neck throb as his torso arches and twists with the current, gently trying to lead his prize to the shore against an angry sea.  He is Zubin Mehta in waders and a ridiculously light 6 wt rod is his baton.  My first 5 casts yield 4 yellowfin croaker and then all of a sudden they are gone.  Pick up a few large perch including one monster. They are a viviparous species and this one female is dripping live young’ens out of her bunghole.  Repeatedly cast and strip retrieve 320 grains of lead core shooting head.  Salt is creeping into every seam of protective outerwear, under every neoprene-gusseted seal, into the hinges of my sunglasses, through my pores.  Wander over to a raging rip current and pull out four leopard sharks.  I chase the pelicans up and down the beach but they, and the ball of baitfish that must endure their blitzkrieg, are always just out of casting range.  Surf is screaming in my ear but somehow I hear the muted "breenp, breenp" of a Nokia 6200.  Open my chest pack and unwrap the cell phone from the ziploc bag.  "Yeah, Jimmy.  Yeah, get here right away.  Yeah.  Fishing is already slowing down. See ya."  Jimmy arrives and he catches the largest surfperch of his life, a 3 pounder.  This fish squirts one of her babies into my stripping basket and I watch it swim around (I use a solid basket with no drain holes).  Six hours of casting, stripping, fighting, running, sweating and my fingers are numb from the cold ocean water.  My back is sore from an improperly loaded chest pack.  My skin is crispy from the California sun and the smile on my face is as wide as Rosie O’Donnell. Mu

Response:

[tale of great suffering snipped for the sake of humanity] Mu

Lookit, I don’t think it’s fair that you have to suffer like this all by yourself.  Need any help? BTW, you weren’t "astream" so it doesn’t count! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Thanks Rosie.  Will be back "home" on the 11th, then heading up to the lower Sac on the 13th. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

BTW, you weren’t "astream" so it doesn’t count!

I was too astream … I said I was at the warm-water discharge from the power plant.  When those neighborhood air-conditioners start humming, the flow can be a torrent.  That was admittedly a good day.  Last outing prior to that one resulted in one fish. Mu

Response:

Thanks Rosie.  Will be back "home" on the 11th, then heading up to the lower Sac on the 13th.

Have fun.  You guys hiring a guide or going it alone? Mu

Response:

Have fun.  You guys hiring a guide or going it alone? Mu

We don’t need no stinkin’ guides, we’re cheap. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

We don’t need no stinkin’ guides, we’re cheap.

After buying all the beer, tequila and scotch for the trip, we’re also broke.  Makes being cheap easy.             Frank

Response:

Up with the sun, the daily yoga/stretch/run, shit/shave/shower, followed by a leisurely, decadent breakfast. Pack the vest with a hearty lunch and be at the trailhead by 10-10:30. Hike to an isolated, beautiful spot, have a bit of lunch and hit the stream around 1:00. Fish for wild natives, with dry flies (of course ;-) , til 4:00 then hike out. Have a Budweiser (or two) back at the car then drive back to the cabin, drink a scotch or two while preparing a feast, feast on the feast with a bottle of good red wine, follow it up with a wee bit more scotch and hit the hay shortly after sundown. Repeat.

Sounds great but missing only one element. wayno, enlighten the boy. . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Sounds great but missing only one element. …

Right. Forgot to mention tying up some flies for the next day while nipping on the scotch after dinner. ;-) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Up with the sun, the daily yoga/stretch/run, shit/shave/shower, followed by a leisurely, decadent breakfast. Pack the vest with a hearty lunch and be at the trailhead by 10-10:30. Hike to an isolated, beautiful spot, have a bit of lunch and hit the stream around 1:00. Fish for wild natives, with dry flies (of course ;-) , til 4:00 then hike out. Have a Budweiser (or two) back at the car then drive back to the cabin, drink a scotch or two while preparing a feast, feast on the feast with a bottle of good red wine, follow it up with a wee bit more scotch and hit the hay shortly after sundown. Repeat. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Groin Injury/Recovered & Back!

Question:

Hi folks, don’t know if any of you recall….back in June….I posted on a serious injury I sustained while running…..a severe adductor longus strain….left groin injury.  I was on crutches for a week…I could not lift my left leg into the car or onto the bed.  It was pretty bad.     I received some good insights/points on handling/enduring the injury from some good folks on this ng and to that I am appreciative.   At the time I was really down as my Summer running was shot.    Well I’m in my 3rd day back now…..and feel 100% recovered after being sidelined for 11 weeks of no running. I spent the past 11 weeks lifting weights (upper body only) and jumping rope (cardio & focused on my calves and did not adversely impact my groin region).   I also got into a Yoga stretching routine/program to learn how to better stretch.    Apprx. 8 weeks into my rehab training program…..when jumping rope….I started lifting my knees in the jumping process (moving away from a calf focused jumping pattern) and approximating a high knee lift run motion/pattern in my rope jumping. I felt great enough to "go for it" and try to run a couple of days great.   I know I should not have….and it was stupid and high risk…..however I could not help it.    After 1/2 mile into my run and feeling great….I let it open and strided at full pace.  After that first day, I knew I was fully recovered….and most interestingly..my legs felt so well rested.   I really felt brand new, it was amazing….it was like I was never injured in the first place. Lesson out of the whole experience?   I always stretched before running of course…..however now…..I take the stretching process so much more seriously……and employ a Yoga Stretch routine into my daily program. The rope jumping was also an excellent rehab exercise for getting back to machines, etc. you see at gyms.    Aside from the lower body work in jumping…the arm motion you can make in jumping rope very much approximates running arm strides/motion, etc… Anyway….just wanted to share what worked well for me in recovering…should any of you be faced with a similar injury.    I consider myself luck I was only sidelined just under 3 months.   Many people are faced with a 4 -8 month or even a full year recovery process from this type of injury. Andrew

Response:

Anyway….just wanted to share what worked well for me in recovering…should any of you be faced with a similar injury.    I consider myself luck I was only sidelined just under 3 months.   Many people are faced with a 4 -8 month or even a full year recovery process from this type of injury.

Welcome back!!! I had a similar injury some years ago and it took me out of running for better than a year. You found smarter doctors than I did for an accurate diagnosis. — Caveat Lector Doug Freese

Response:

The feeling of your first run (post recovery) must have been awesome, welcome back. — ===== Bernard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks, don’t know if any of you recall….back in June….I posted on a serious injury I sustained while running…..a severe adductor longus strain….left groin injury.  I was on crutches for a week…I could not lift my left leg into the car or onto the bed.  It was pretty bad.     I received some good insights/points on handling/enduring the injury from some good folks on this ng and to that I am appreciative.   At the time I was really down as my Summer running was shot.    Well I’m in my 3rd day back now…..and feel 100% recovered after being sidelined for 11 weeks of no running. I spent the past 11 weeks lifting weights (upper body only) and jumping rope (cardio & focused on my calves and did not adversely impact my groin region).   I also got into a Yoga stretching routine/program to learn how to better stretch.    Apprx. 8 weeks into my rehab training program…..when jumping rope….I started lifting my knees in the jumping process (moving away from a calf focused jumping pattern) and approximating a high knee lift run motion/pattern in my rope jumping. I felt great enough to "go for it" and try to run a couple of days felt great.   I know I should not have….and it was stupid and high risk…..however I could not help it.    After 1/2 mile into my run and feeling great….I let it open and strided at full pace.  After that first day, I knew I was fully recovered….and most interestingly..my legs felt so well rested.   I really felt brand new, it was amazing….it was like I was never injured in the first place. Lesson out of the whole experience?   I always stretched before running of course…..however now…..I take the stretching process so much more seriously……and employ a Yoga Stretch routine into my daily program. The rope jumping was also an excellent rehab exercise for getting back to treadmill machines, etc. you see at gyms.    Aside from the lower body work in jumping…the arm motion you can make in jumping rope very much approximates running arm strides/motion, etc… Anyway….just wanted to share what worked well for me in recovering…should any of you be faced with a similar injury.    I consider myself luck I was only sidelined just under 3 months.   Many people are faced with a 4 -8 month or even a full year recovery process from this type of injury. Andrew

Response:

How To Do Toe-Touches

Question:

This stretch The hamstring stretch I learned in physical therapy works pretty well.  Sit in a chair and extend one leg out straight, keeping the other leg bent.  Point the toe of the extended leg up.  Bend the whole trunk of your body over the extended leg, keeping your head up.

is much better for those of us with bad backs than this one I sit on the floor with one leg straight out in front and the other leg bent so the sole of the foot is resting along the inner thigh of the straight leg then, making sure my back is kept straight, lean towards the toe of the straight leg. This makes it quite easy to stretch the hamstring in a controlled way, without placing any body weight on it and without stressing anything else.

because it allows you to position your pelvis.  That’s very important when you’ve got a back problem.  While you can position your pelvis somewhat with the second stretch, it’s much more difficult to keep the good lourdosis in your lower back, not to mention that some people’s back problems are made worse by the position of the non-stretching leg in the above exercise. -S-

Response:

back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches?

I sit on the floor with one leg straight out in front and the other leg bent so the sole of the foot is resting along the inner thigh of the straight leg then, making sure my back is kept straight, lean towards the toe of the straight leg. This makes it quite easy to stretch the hamstring in a controlled way, without placing any body weight on it and without stressing anything else. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

Response:

The hamstring stretch I learned in physical therapy works pretty well.  Sit in a chair and extend one leg out straight, keeping the other leg bent.  Point the toe of the extended leg up.  Bend the whole trunk of your body over the extended leg, keeping your head up.  You will feel this stretch!  If you don’t, you aren’t doing it right. The keys to this stretch are keeping your foot pointed up (this increases the stretch) and keeping your head up…don’t try to touch your head to your knees or anything like that. Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective. not quite on topic: yes, i can attest to that. having had some pretty painful (lower) back problems over the years gives me a little insight into this. chiropractors never mentioned the toe touch as a stretch, just a friend…. and i tell you, ever since i started doing *at least* one 10 second holding stretch per evening, i’ve felt much improvement. and that’s with the knees slightly bent. back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? thx, Cam

Response:

I should clarify…sit on the *edge* of a chair and do the stretch. Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The hamstring stretch I learned in physical therapy works pretty well.  Sit in a chair and extend one leg out straight, keeping the other leg bent.  Point the toe of the extended leg up.  Bend the whole trunk of your body over the extended leg, keeping your head up.  You will feel this stretch!  If you don’t, you aren’t doing it right. The keys to this stretch are keeping your foot pointed up (this increases the stretch) and keeping your head up…don’t try to touch your head to your knees or anything like that. Martha McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective. not quite on topic: yes, i can attest to that. having had some pretty painful (lower) back problems over the years gives me a little insight into this. chiropractors never mentioned the toe touch as a stretch, just a friend…. and i tell you, ever since i started doing *at least* one 10 second holding stretch per evening, i’ve felt much improvement. and that’s with the knees slightly bent. back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? thx, Cam

Response:

Ah, very good….. I’ve been doing that stretch since day one. I haven’t had any hamstring prob’s, but just wondered what sort of stretches others employed. Thanks…. Cam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? I sit on the floor with one leg straight out in front and the other leg bent so the sole of the foot is resting along the inner thigh of the straight leg then, making sure my back is kept straight, lean towards the toe of the straight leg. This makes it quite easy to stretch the hamstring in a controlled way, without placing any body weight on it and without stressing anything else. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

Response:

Who on earth is still recommending toe-touches? They are potentially very bad for the knees and there are far safer ways to stretch the hamstrings. I’m not sure who ‘McKenzie’ is but Kurz recommends not doing toe-touches, and I’ll take his credentials over ‘McKenzie’ anyday. McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back.

In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -S- — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841 I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

–On Wednesday, November 08, 2000 9:17 AM -0500 "Wilson, Cam what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches?

I don’t do this often enough, as my current low backache attests, but I like to sit on the floor with my legs out-stretched and reach for my toes. If you’re not flexible enough to hold onto your ankles or feet to hold the stretch, hook a rolled towel around your feet and hold onto the ends.  To vary the parts that get stretched, I like to hold my ankles and roll them in towards each other as I hold the stretch, and then out and away from each other. Anyone got any good glut stretches? The yoga stretch where you sit up and twist with one bent leg crossed over the other leg out stretched doesn’t do much for me.

Response:

McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective.

not quite on topic: yes, i can attest to that. having had some pretty painful (lower) back problems over the years gives me a little insight into this. chiropractors never mentioned the toe touch as a stretch, just a friend…. and i tell you, ever since i started doing *at least* one 10 second holding stretch per evening, i’ve felt much improvement. and that’s with the knees slightly bent. back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? thx, Cam

Response:

I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Who on earth is still recommending toe-touches? They are potentially very bad for the knees and there are far safer ways to stretch the hamstrings. I’m not sure who ‘McKenzie’ is but Kurz recommends not doing toe-touches, and I’ll take his credentials over ‘McKenzie’ anyday.

McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841 I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Who on earth is still recommending toe-touches? They are potentially very bad for the knees and there are far safer ways to stretch the hamstrings. I’m not sure who ‘McKenzie’ is but Kurz recommends not doing toe-touches, and I’ll take his credentials over ‘McKenzie’ anyday. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

How To Do Toe-Touches

Question:

I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Who on earth is still recommending toe-touches? They are potentially very bad for the knees and there are far safer ways to stretch the hamstrings. I’m not sure who ‘McKenzie’ is but Kurz recommends not doing toe-touches, and I’ll take his credentials over ‘McKenzie’ anyday. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Who on earth is still recommending toe-touches? They are potentially very bad for the knees and there are far safer ways to stretch the hamstrings. I’m not sure who ‘McKenzie’ is but Kurz recommends not doing toe-touches, and I’ll take his credentials over ‘McKenzie’ anyday.

McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841 I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Who on earth is still recommending toe-touches? They are potentially very bad for the knees and there are far safer ways to stretch the hamstrings. I’m not sure who ‘McKenzie’ is but Kurz recommends not doing toe-touches, and I’ll take his credentials over ‘McKenzie’ anyday. McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back.

In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -S- — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841 I’ve generally done standing toe-touches (in the manner suggested by the McKenzie back book, running my hands down my calves so that my back is always supported and there’s no need to tighten my lower back muscles in a panic) with my feet about shoulder-width apart.  Today I tried the exercise with my feet closer together, and it felt better on several counts.  First, I didn’t feel the almost-hyper-extension in the back of my left knee I sometimes feel with my feet shoulder-width apart. Second, I felt a new stretch, in those muscles along the outsides of my thighs, muscles I’ve noticed getting tight lately and I wasn’t too sure how to stretch properly. So, is this a good thing I’ve discovered?  Should I vary the width of my feet to vary the stretch or is one stance or another generally recommended? Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective.

not quite on topic: yes, i can attest to that. having had some pretty painful (lower) back problems over the years gives me a little insight into this. chiropractors never mentioned the toe touch as a stretch, just a friend…. and i tell you, ever since i started doing *at least* one 10 second holding stretch per evening, i’ve felt much improvement. and that’s with the knees slightly bent. back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? thx, Cam

Response:

–On Wednesday, November 08, 2000 9:17 AM -0500 "Wilson, Cam what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches?

I don’t do this often enough, as my current low backache attests, but I like to sit on the floor with my legs out-stretched and reach for my toes. If you’re not flexible enough to hold onto your ankles or feet to hold the stretch, hook a rolled towel around your feet and hold onto the ends.  To vary the parts that get stretched, I like to hold my ankles and roll them in towards each other as I hold the stretch, and then out and away from each other. Anyone got any good glut stretches? The yoga stretch where you sit up and twist with one bent leg crossed over the other leg out stretched doesn’t do much for me.

Response:

back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches?

I sit on the floor with one leg straight out in front and the other leg bent so the sole of the foot is resting along the inner thigh of the straight leg then, making sure my back is kept straight, lean towards the toe of the straight leg. This makes it quite easy to stretch the hamstring in a controlled way, without placing any body weight on it and without stressing anything else. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

Response:

The hamstring stretch I learned in physical therapy works pretty well.  Sit in a chair and extend one leg out straight, keeping the other leg bent.  Point the toe of the extended leg up.  Bend the whole trunk of your body over the extended leg, keeping your head up.  You will feel this stretch!  If you don’t, you aren’t doing it right. The keys to this stretch are keeping your foot pointed up (this increases the stretch) and keeping your head up…don’t try to touch your head to your knees or anything like that. Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective. not quite on topic: yes, i can attest to that. having had some pretty painful (lower) back problems over the years gives me a little insight into this. chiropractors never mentioned the toe touch as a stretch, just a friend…. and i tell you, ever since i started doing *at least* one 10 second holding stretch per evening, i’ve felt much improvement. and that’s with the knees slightly bent. back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? thx, Cam

Response:

Ah, very good….. I’ve been doing that stretch since day one. I haven’t had any hamstring prob’s, but just wondered what sort of stretches others employed. Thanks…. Cam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? I sit on the floor with one leg straight out in front and the other leg bent so the sole of the foot is resting along the inner thigh of the straight leg then, making sure my back is kept straight, lean towards the toe of the straight leg. This makes it quite easy to stretch the hamstring in a controlled way, without placing any body weight on it and without stressing anything else. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

Response:

I should clarify…sit on the *edge* of a chair and do the stretch. Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The hamstring stretch I learned in physical therapy works pretty well.  Sit in a chair and extend one leg out straight, keeping the other leg bent.  Point the toe of the extended leg up.  Bend the whole trunk of your body over the extended leg, keeping your head up.  You will feel this stretch!  If you don’t, you aren’t doing it right. The keys to this stretch are keeping your foot pointed up (this increases the stretch) and keeping your head up…don’t try to touch your head to your knees or anything like that. Martha McKenzie is the author of a book on back problems, and the standing toe-touch isn’t offered as a hamstring stretch but as one for the lower back. In that case I’d suggest doing them with slightly bent knees… the stretch to the back should be just as effective. not quite on topic: yes, i can attest to that. having had some pretty painful (lower) back problems over the years gives me a little insight into this. chiropractors never mentioned the toe touch as a stretch, just a friend…. and i tell you, ever since i started doing *at least* one 10 second holding stretch per evening, i’ve felt much improvement. and that’s with the knees slightly bent. back on topic: what exactly *are* the best/most popular hangstring stretches? thx, Cam

Response:

This stretch The hamstring stretch I learned in physical therapy works pretty well.  Sit in a chair and extend one leg out straight, keeping the other leg bent.  Point the toe of the extended leg up.  Bend the whole trunk of your body over the extended leg, keeping your head up.

is much better for those of us with bad backs than this one I sit on the floor with one leg straight out in front and the other leg bent so the sole of the foot is resting along the inner thigh of the straight leg then, making sure my back is kept straight, lean towards the toe of the straight leg. This makes it quite easy to stretch the hamstring in a controlled way, without placing any body weight on it and without stressing anything else.

because it allows you to position your pelvis.  That’s very important when you’ve got a back problem.  While you can position your pelvis somewhat with the second stretch, it’s much more difficult to keep the good lourdosis in your lower back, not to mention that some people’s back problems are made worse by the position of the non-stretching leg in the above exercise. -S-

Response:

Custom Heel Pain Night Splints in Philadelphia

Question:

I did find an excellent controlled study in the journal "Foot & Ankle" (January 1998), written by West Virginia University orthopods.  The title is "Effective treatmemt of chronic plantar fasciitis with dorsi flexion night splints."  The splints they use, custom built ones costing $200, sound like just what I need.  After a month (assuming you are able to sleep with it on, as most people can), results are impressive. I gather that there are relatively few medical practices building such splints

Actually this is a pretty common treatment now. But watch out – my doc made my splints dorsiflex my feet as far as they could possibly go. Within a week after I started wearing them I developed achilles tendinitis, which has been with me for over two years. — Sr. Information Processing Consultant University of Wisconsin Anesthesiology Dept.

Response:

FWIW: Have had most nagging injuries including achilles and pl fascia. What worked for me was STATIC CALF AND FOOT STRETCHING as indicated in those reference sections previously introduced. Fairly common: 1.  Knee extended, as in wall pushups. 2.  Knee flexed Less common but just as valuable: 3.  Knee bent and toes flexed simultaneously, possible by bracing foot at 45 degrees, with toes on forward wall and heel on floor flexing knee forward substantially, but gently. (no need for the $25 rehab tool used by PT’s, but if you have one, great.) Even less common and not generally appreciated: 4.  Knees extended (also flexed, individually) in downward dog yoga pose with substantial simultaneous bend at waist.  Ask any yoga expert for this and others.  Be VERY cautious at first until you know your limits.  This affects calf/achilles/fascia in ways they others do not.  Ref. Iyengar Yoga, Hatha Yoga texts, from the library, store or bookshelf.  Adho Mukha Svanasana on Page No. 90 of "Yoga, the Iyengar Way, the New Definitive Illustrated Guide," by Mehta et al, Knopf, 1994, $20.  Most beginners do not learn this well in the first session, so getting help makes a lot of sense. (Now, at risk of repeating what you have been told, you will benefit by stretching hamstrings, glutei, hips, etc., as well since they are all connected, etc., etc.) 5.  Squatting on heels if possible, or toes if not.  A yoga stretch and balance, once pain free, kneeling and sitting back on your heels two ways.  One with foot extended/pointed back.  The other, with feet tucked under and on the toes.  Then raise knees and balance on toes, w. torso erect, into a tiptoe squat.  See Poses, numbers 74 to 77, pages 202 to 204, of "The Complete Yoga Book," by James Hewitt, Rider Publishers, London, 1991, 10.99 Pounds in UK. I do these routinely now as prevention and have had no problems for 20 years. You can also use PNF discussed by a number of the web sites, the ever present Ozzie Gee, etc., to further extend the stretches. Also, high rep sets for the calves to warm them up and strengthen them, since I have had many minor calf tears. Endurance cycling, although it tightens the calves, does wonders for recovery in the lower leg.  Esp. spinning and high pedal rpm and low torque. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did find an excellent controlled study in the journal "Foot & Ankle" (January 1998), written by West Virginia University orthopods.  The title is "Effective treatmemt of chronic plantar fasciitis with dorsi flexion night splints."  The splints they use, custom built ones costing $200, sound like just what I need.  After a month (assuming you are able to sleep with it on, as most people can), results are impressive. I gather that there are relatively few medical practices building such splints Actually this is a pretty common treatment now. But watch out – my doc made my splints dorsiflex my feet as far as they could possibly go. Within a week after I started wearing them I developed achilles tendinitis, which has been with me for over two years. — Sr. Information Processing Consultant University of Wisconsin Anesthesiology Dept.

Response:

I’ve been suffering from a tender left heel for about four months and my family doctor’s ideas (over the counter meds, heel pads, stretching) don’t seem to be doing the trick.  This is the second bout of plantar fasciitis that I have had in the last five years (last one went on for about 10 months) and I would love to find a definitive treatment. Checking in a nearby medical school library, it seems that, unless I really missed something big, which I do not think I did, most heel pain treatments are not based on controlled experimentation.  The podiatrists are still being taught that heel spurs are a common cause, which is, at best, a classic unscientific conflation of cause with correlation.  Plus, I gather that podiatrists often prescribe expensive shoe orthotics in the absence of careful controlled experimentation proving the expensive orthotics to be better than over the counter. I did find an excellent controlled study in the journal "Foot & Ankle" (January 1998), written by West Virginia University orthopods.  The title is "Effective treatmemt of chronic plantar fasciitis with dorsi flexion night splints."  The splints they use, custom built ones costing $200, sound like just what I need.  After a month (assuming you are able to sleep with it on, as most people can), results are impressive. I gather that there are relatively few medical practices building such splints, but that there are others beyond that in West Virginia.  By any chance, does anyone know of any such practices in the Philadelphia Pennsylvania vicinity? Also, has anyone tried the Bird & Cronin Nite Lite Plantar Fasciitis Splint? This product, which costs around $65 and comes in three sizes, seems to be similar to the West Virginia splint except is not custom built. I’m not a runner, but post here because it is the only newsgroup which commonly discusses heel pain. Thanks for all responses and ideas. Steve Eisenberg    Wynnewood, Pennsylvania  U.S.A.

Response:

Custom Heel Pain Night Splints in Philadelphia

Question:

I’ve been suffering from a tender left heel for about four months and my family doctor’s ideas (over the counter meds, heel pads, stretching) don’t seem to be doing the trick.  This is the second bout of plantar fasciitis that I have had in the last five years (last one went on for about 10 months) and I would love to find a definitive treatment. Checking in a nearby medical school library, it seems that, unless I really missed something big, which I do not think I did, most heel pain treatments are not based on controlled experimentation.  The podiatrists are still being taught that heel spurs are a common cause, which is, at best, a classic unscientific conflation of cause with correlation.  Plus, I gather that podiatrists often prescribe expensive shoe orthotics in the absence of careful controlled experimentation proving the expensive orthotics to be better than over the counter. I did find an excellent controlled study in the journal "Foot & Ankle" (January 1998), written by West Virginia University orthopods.  The title is "Effective treatmemt of chronic plantar fasciitis with dorsi flexion night splints."  The splints they use, custom built ones costing $200, sound like just what I need.  After a month (assuming you are able to sleep with it on, as most people can), results are impressive. I gather that there are relatively few medical practices building such splints, but that there are others beyond that in West Virginia.  By any chance, does anyone know of any such practices in the Philadelphia Pennsylvania vicinity? Also, has anyone tried the Bird & Cronin Nite Lite Plantar Fasciitis Splint? This product, which costs around $65 and comes in three sizes, seems to be similar to the West Virginia splint except is not custom built. I’m not a runner, but post here because it is the only newsgroup which commonly discusses heel pain. Thanks for all responses and ideas. Steve Eisenberg    Wynnewood, Pennsylvania  U.S.A.

Response:

I did find an excellent controlled study in the journal "Foot & Ankle" (January 1998), written by West Virginia University orthopods.  The title is "Effective treatmemt of chronic plantar fasciitis with dorsi flexion night splints."  The splints they use, custom built ones costing $200, sound like just what I need.  After a month (assuming you are able to sleep with it on, as most people can), results are impressive. I gather that there are relatively few medical practices building such splints

Actually this is a pretty common treatment now. But watch out – my doc made my splints dorsiflex my feet as far as they could possibly go. Within a week after I started wearing them I developed achilles tendinitis, which has been with me for over two years. — Sr. Information Processing Consultant University of Wisconsin Anesthesiology Dept.

Response:

FWIW: Have had most nagging injuries including achilles and pl fascia. What worked for me was STATIC CALF AND FOOT STRETCHING as indicated in those reference sections previously introduced. Fairly common: 1.  Knee extended, as in wall pushups. 2.  Knee flexed Less common but just as valuable: 3.  Knee bent and toes flexed simultaneously, possible by bracing foot at 45 degrees, with toes on forward wall and heel on floor flexing knee forward substantially, but gently. (no need for the $25 rehab tool used by PT’s, but if you have one, great.) Even less common and not generally appreciated: 4.  Knees extended (also flexed, individually) in downward dog yoga pose with substantial simultaneous bend at waist.  Ask any yoga expert for this and others.  Be VERY cautious at first until you know your limits.  This affects calf/achilles/fascia in ways they others do not.  Ref. Iyengar Yoga, Hatha Yoga texts, from the library, store or bookshelf.  Adho Mukha Svanasana on Page No. 90 of "Yoga, the Iyengar Way, the New Definitive Illustrated Guide," by Mehta et al, Knopf, 1994, $20.  Most beginners do not learn this well in the first session, so getting help makes a lot of sense. (Now, at risk of repeating what you have been told, you will benefit by stretching hamstrings, glutei, hips, etc., as well since they are all connected, etc., etc.) 5.  Squatting on heels if possible, or toes if not.  A yoga stretch and balance, once pain free, kneeling and sitting back on your heels two ways.  One with foot extended/pointed back.  The other, with feet tucked under and on the toes.  Then raise knees and balance on toes, w. torso erect, into a tiptoe squat.  See Poses, numbers 74 to 77, pages 202 to 204, of "The Complete Yoga Book," by James Hewitt, Rider Publishers, London, 1991, 10.99 Pounds in UK. I do these routinely now as prevention and have had no problems for 20 years. You can also use PNF discussed by a number of the web sites, the ever present Ozzie Gee, etc., to further extend the stretches. Also, high rep sets for the calves to warm them up and strengthen them, since I have had many minor calf tears. Endurance cycling, although it tightens the calves, does wonders for recovery in the lower leg.  Esp. spinning and high pedal rpm and low torque. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did find an excellent controlled study in the journal "Foot & Ankle" (January 1998), written by West Virginia University orthopods.  The title is "Effective treatmemt of chronic plantar fasciitis with dorsi flexion night splints."  The splints they use, custom built ones costing $200, sound like just what I need.  After a month (assuming you are able to sleep with it on, as most people can), results are impressive. I gather that there are relatively few medical practices building such splints Actually this is a pretty common treatment now. But watch out – my doc made my splints dorsiflex my feet as far as they could possibly go. Within a week after I started wearing them I developed achilles tendinitis, which has been with me for over two years. — Sr. Information Processing Consultant University of Wisconsin Anesthesiology Dept.

Response:

off HRT, now body aches

Question:

In article <19980217013300.UAA02…@ladder02.news.aol.com

,

vlhb…@aol.com (Vlhb002) wrote:

Hey, folks — I went off Provera about three weeks ago and had all kinds of muscle and joint pain. What do you suppose it turned out to be? The flu. Let’s not forget that sometimes our symptoms don’t have a blessed thing to do with menopause. This is not in any way to denigrate Jan’s symptoms, which may very well be HRT related. Regards, vlhb…@aol.com

Glad you got over yours, mine are about a month old now, no signs of flu. I also am not sleeping well. Actualy, I have no trouble sleeping, except I wake up several times each night with hot flashes, and wake in the morning feeling just as weary and tired as when I went to bed.  sigh.  I don’t know what it is, perhaps fibromyalgia or could it be a sypmtom of estrogen deficiency??  Don’t know,   but whatever, it does seem to improve with HRT.  sigh.  Maybe I will try it for another month or so, but I don’t know if I can tolerate this for long.  Suggestions welcome! — jrg14@*spamfree*cornell.edu *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ EcoVillage Ithaca, looking for people to help plan, and live in, the second neighborhood group. for info:  http://www.cfe.cornell.edu/ecovillage/

Response:

On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, shelly wrote:

On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 gn…@cyberus.ca wrote: The advantage of dealing directly with the cytokines, rather than covering up the pain with analgesics, is that you are preventing the tissue destruction that will be caused by the cytokines.    Isn’t there still another level to explore like what is causing the elevated cytokines in the first place?  

        Indeed – but is that a realistic expectation, given the state         of medical science and the quality of care available to the         average person? So simply artificially

suppressing the cytokines is still a few steps removed from the initiating dysfunction? Still tinkering with micromanagement from where I see it, but there is emerging the sense of an immune system common denominator with the new cytokines developments.    And my intuitive hunch is that immune system is greatly mind/body mediated (ala the UCLA et al psycho-neuro-immunology work done which Norman Cousins wrote about).

        NLP (neurolinguistic programming) claims that allergies and         possibly some other immune disorders are learned responses,         "phobias" of the immune system.  NLP is often successful at         curing both phobias and allergies.  But it didn’t do beans         for my young friend who has lupus.   More and more what we thought we knew about

chronic disease etiology is dissolving into the realm of the auto-immune mysteries. What makes a body want to turn on itself? And why is there such a strong association with "helplessness and hopelessness" before the onset of chronic somatic symptoms?

        It’s a vicious cycle:         When either our outer circumstances or our own metabolic swings         (or the two in combo) get out of control, we experience stress.         Stress eventually makes people sick.  Sick people have trouble         handling things that pose no challenge for healthy people.         The fact that people who are coming down with an illness         feel out-of-sorts does not mean that their illness must         therefore have been caused by their negative attitude.         There may be effective ways to intervene at the psychological         or lifestyle level, but positive-thinking peptalks rarely do         more than annoy the sufferer – or, even worse, leave them feeling         as bad as ever, but now also feeling *guilty* for feeling so bad.         G

Response:

shelly wrote:

                You are missing a point here…  Feelings are not "negative" or positive" as in good or bad feelings. They just are, and they need to be accepted, understood, owned up to and mediated.

Exactly! Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ

Response:

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Geneva Hagen wrote:

   The fact that people who are coming down with an illness    feel out-of-sorts does not mean that their illness must    therefore have been caused by their negative attitude.    There may be effective ways to intervene at the psychological    or lifestyle level, but positive-thinking peptalks rarely do    more than annoy the sufferer – or, even worse, leave them feeling    as bad as ever, but now also feeling *guilty* for feeling so bad.    G

                You are missing a point here and seem to be raising the tired old "blame the victim" argument any time someone tries to discuss mind body health and wellness. Feelings are not "negative" or positive" as in good or bad feelings. They just are, and they need to be accepted, understood, owned up to and mediated.         If someone feels so *guilty* because of some theory and outside judgement, this may be a good place to start exploring this person’s sense of personal empowerment and autonomy …you see …. someone’s sense of helplessness and hopelessness ….this may in fact still be the issue.         Blame and victim are still in the realm of helplessness and hopelessness. So this attitude can be a starting place for change …if one wants too. Even if one is dying, there is still tremendous opportunities for healthy integrated thoughts.         Intellect, emotions, intuition and sensations in balance is a goal for healthy living. "Diss-ease" can strike as a wake-up call for better balance. And sometimes it can not. But it is an option, even when it is not always an answer. But "guilt and blame" show more about the internal workings and choices of the recipient and not the purveyor of the option. If they want to cling to those feelings and interpret there lives by these qualities, there is no reason to change. But they don’t have to only measure their lives in these terms. There are others to add to their overview of their world.         Why do you immediately associate "guilt and blame" with any mention of mind/body health and wellness. Why was that your first observation and criticism and where did this come from when mind/body is about health and is -not- about making people feel worse. What is your critical observation really saying here? shelly

Response:

In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.980214115551.4214C-100…@coyote.rain.org, shelly

<she…@rain.org

writes:        Isn’t there still another level to explore like what is causing the elevated cytokines in the first place?  So simply artificially suppressing the cytokines is still a few steps removed from the initiating dysfunction?

Okay, I’ll request it.  What does Louise Hay say about this?  And, just curious, shelly, have you ever had this symptom?  For me it comes from out of nowhere much the same way that bad cramps before a period used to.  A signal of some sort.  But sure doesn’t seem stress related or coinciding with feelings of loss of power or helplessness.

On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 gn…@cyberus.ca wrote: The advantage of dealing directly with the cytokines, rather than covering up the pain with analgesics, is that you are preventing the tissue destruction that will be caused by the cytokines.

Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ

Response:

} (((((ofishh…@hatespam.net) wrote:

: Could it be that the "mind" somehow senses that there is something going : wrong with the body even before the symptoms become obvious?  I’m just : guessing of course.  Some certain lack of feelings of well being?  A : feeling of depression before the actual symptoms of disease? : — : Carol   G. What disease are you speaking of?

Response:

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, HomemakerJ wrote:

<she…@rain.org writes:   Isn’t there still another level to explore like what is causing the elevated cytokines in the first place?  So simply artificially suppressing the cytokines is still a few steps removed from the initiating dysfunction? Okay, I’ll request it.  What does Louise Hay say about this?  And, just curious, shelly, have you ever had this symptom?  For me it comes from out of nowhere much the same way that bad cramps before a period used to.  A signal of some sort.  But sure doesn’t seem stress related or coinciding with feelings of loss of power or helplessness.

        Hi Judi, I don’t have the book in front of me but as I recall her association with joint pains had something to do with struggling with "transitions." So that symptom would seem to be a natural at meno. So honoring the transition by our good old acknowledgement and surrender and lighting a few candles for Hestia may help ease this time. Plus starting a good fitness program, yoga, stretch and tone, etc.         It seems like the messages of the meno signs all tell us to pay attention to the details of our new lives. If we don’t get the message with one symptom, then another tries to shake us up for a while until this whole thing becomes a celebration ….but that is easy to say being post meno.;-) shelly

Response:

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, HomemakerJ wrote:

Okay, I’ll request it.  What does Louise Hay say about this?  And, just curious, shelly, have you ever had this symptom?  For me it comes from out of nowhere much the same way that bad cramps before a period used to.  A signal of some sort.  But sure doesn’t seem stress related or coinciding with feelings of loss of power or helplessness. Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ

        Well, since you asked ……;-) ACHES: Longing for love. Longing to be held         I love and approve of myself. I am loving and loveable. MUSCLES: Reluctance to new experiences. Muscles represent our ability to move in life.         I experience life as a joyful dance. JOINTS: Represent changes in direction of life, and the ease of these movements.         I easily flow with change. My life is Divinely guided and I am         always going in the best direction. Brought to you from Louise Hay’s metaphysical book "Heal Your Body," by  poster request. shelly

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <34EACF22.7…@interaccess.com

, ho…@interaccess.com wrote: In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.980214115551.4214C-100…@coyote.rain.org, shelly <she…@rain.org writes:      Isn’t there still another level to explore like what is causing the elevated cytokines in the first place?  So simply artificially suppressing the cytokines is still a few steps removed from the initiating dysfunction? Okay, I’ll request it.  What does Louise Hay say about this?  And, just curious, shelly, have you ever had this symptom?  For me it comes from out of nowhere much the same way that bad cramps before a period used to.  A signal of some sort.  But sure doesn’t seem stress related or coinciding with feelings of loss of power or helplessness. On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 gn…@cyberus.ca wrote: The advantage of dealing directly with the cytokines, rather than covering up the pain with analgesics, is that you are preventing the tissue destruction that will be caused by the cytokines. Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ

Am I the only one who doesn’t know what is meant by "cytokines"? Whatzit??  Please and thanks — jrg14@*spamfree*cornell.edu *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ EcoVillage Ithaca, looking for people to help plan, and live in, the second neighborhood group. for info:  http://www.cfe.cornell.edu/ecovillage/

Response:

Thank you, shelly.  That gives me a couple of clues! Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -shelly wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, HomemakerJ wrote: Okay, I’ll request it.  What does Louise Hay say about this?  And, just curious, shelly, have you ever had this symptom?  For me it comes from out of nowhere much the same way that bad cramps before a period used to.  A signal of some sort.  But sure doesn’t seem stress related or coinciding with feelings of loss of power or helplessness. Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ         Well, since you asked ……;-) ACHES: Longing for love. Longing to be held         I love and approve of myself. I am loving and loveable. MUSCLES: Reluctance to new experiences. Muscles represent our ability to move in life.         I experience life as a joyful dance. JOINTS: Represent changes in direction of life, and the ease of these movements.         I easily flow with change. My life is Divinely guided and I am         always going in the best direction. Brought to you from Louise Hay’s metaphysical book "Heal Your Body," by  poster request. shelly

Response:

Could it be that the "mind" somehow senses that there is something going wrong with the body even before the symptoms become obvious?  I’m just guessing of course.  Some certain lack of feelings of well being?  A feeling of depression before the actual symptoms of disease? — Carol   G.   }<(((o

 }<(((o  }<(((o fishhead @ hotcom.net

***How come wrong numbers are never busy?.*** ~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

. What makes a body want to turn on itself? And why is there such a strong association with "helplessness and hopelessness" before the

onset

of chronic somatic symptoms? shelly

Response:

Hi Robert,   Did you happen to come across anything that specifically states whether  or not Evening Primrose Oil has estrogenic properties?  We tried to discover this some time ago and found conflicting information. This would be important information to someone who has had cancer. Thanks! Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ gn…@cyberus.ca wrote:

In article <jrg14-1202980853100…@132.236.226.17,   jr…@cornell.edu ( Jan ) wrote: The whole body aches, rather like the flu, and the joints ache. It seems that estrogen (and also DHEA and testosterone) keeps the levels of inflammatory cytokines down.(snip)  So the problem may be a high level of cytokines.

  You might have some luck with Evening Primrose – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Oil (EPO). The advantage of dealing directly with the cytokines, rather than covering up the pain with analgesics, is that you are preventing the tissue destruction that will be caused by the cytokines.

Response:

Hey, folks — I went off Provera about three weeks ago and had all kinds of muscle and joint pain. What do you suppose it turned out to be? The flu. Let’s not forget that sometimes our symptoms don’t have a blessed thing to do with menopause. This is not in any way to denigrate Jan’s symptoms, which may very well be HRT related. Regards, vlhb…@aol.com

Response:

In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.980214115551.4214C-100…@coyote.rain.org

,

shelly <she…@rain.org

wrote:    And my intuitive hunch is that immune system is greatly mind/body mediated (ala the UCLA et al psycho-neuro-immunology work done which Norman Cousins wrote about). More and more what we thought we knew about chronic disease etiology is dissolving into the realm of the auto-immune mysteries.

Well there are at least two Russians who agree with you.  This is a long abstract, but it is intriguing, so I’ll quote it in its entirety. Ferencik M, Stvrtinova V. 1997. [Is the immune system our sixth sense? Relation between the immune and neuroendocrine systems] Je imunitny system nas siesty zmysel? Vztahy medzi imunitnym a neuroendokrinnym systemom.  Bratisl.Lek.Listy. 98:187-198. Abstract: There is an overwhelming evidence that cytokines, peptide hormones and neurotransmitters, as well as their receptors, are present in the brain, endocrine and immune systems. The structure and pattern of synthesis of these peptides by leukocytes appear similar to those synthesized in the neuroendocrine system, although some differences exist. Once secreted, these peptide hormones may function as endogenous regulators inside of the each system and also in bidirectional communication between the immune and neuroendocrine systems. Such communication suggest an immunoregulatory role for the brain and a sensory function for the immune system which may sense stimuli that are not recognized by the central and peripheral nervous systems (noncognitive stimuli). The plasma hormone concentrations contributed by lymphocytes usually do not reach the levels required when the pituitary gland is the source, but because immune cells are mobile, they have the potential to deposit the hormone locally at the target site. Several immunoregulatory cytokines, including IL-1, IL-2, IL-6, IFN-gama and TNF are produced not only in the immune system but in the neuroendocrine system as well. They have profound effects on neuroendocrine functions especially on hypothalamic pituitary axes. Neuroendocrine influences that modulate the immune function mainly include mental and physical stress. It can reduce the resistance of organism to infectious diseases and malignancies by compromising the immune system directly or indirectly. The brain is not an immunologically privileged site and therefore may become the target of immunologic attacks resulting in neuroimmunological diseases with an autoimmune component. The impact of psychological and psychosocial factors on the immune system is studied by psychoneuroimmunology whereas neuroendocrine immunology is generally interested in the interactions between the immune and neuroendocrine systems under physiological and pathological conditions. The recognition of the identity of ligands and receptors in the immune, nervous, and endocrine systems suggest a radically altered view of the immune systems impact on other tissues and organ systems, and vice versa. This will undoubtedly change our understanding of physiology, and consequently should profoundly impact the practice of medicine. (Tab. 5, Fig. 4, Ref. 85.) — Robert Ames <gn…@cyberus.ca

—–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Response:

On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 gn…@cyberus.ca wrote:

The advantage of dealing directly with the cytokines, rather than covering up the pain with analgesics, is that you are preventing the tissue destruction that will be caused by the cytokines.

        Isn’t there still another level to explore like what is causing the elevated cytokines in the first place?  So simply artificially suppressing the cytokines is still a few steps removed from the initiating dysfunction? Still tinkering with micromanagement from where I see it, but there is emerging the sense of an immune system common denominator with the new cytokines developments.         And my intuitive hunch is that immune system is greatly mind/body mediated (ala the UCLA et al psycho-neuro-immunology work done which Norman Cousins wrote about). More and more what we thought we knew about chronic disease etiology is dissolving into the realm of the auto-immune mysteries. What makes a body want to turn on itself? And why is there such a strong association with "helplessness and hopelessness" before the onset of chronic somatic symptoms? shelly

Response:

In article <jrg14-1202980853100…@132.236.226.17

,

  jr…@cornell.edu ( Jan ) wrote:

The whole body aches, rather like the flu, and the joints ache.

It seems that estrogen (and also DHEA and testosterone) keeps the levels of inflammatory cytokines down.  These are chemicals in the body, like interleukin-6 (IL-6) for example, which are involved in inflammation and also in the catabolism or destruction of tissues including bones.  So the problem may be a high level of cytokines. If so, there are medications like Tenidap which will lower them.  These are commonly used in Rheumatoid Arthritis. Also fish oils, like Cod liver oil, are known to lower these cytokines.  You might have some luck with Evening Primrose Oil (EPO). The advantage of dealing directly with the cytokines, rather than covering up the pain with analgesics, is that you are preventing the tissue destruction that will be caused by the cytokines. I doubt many doctors are aware of this stuff yet, so good luck finding someone who will listen to you. — Robert Ames <gn…@cyberus.ca

—–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Response:

jr…@cornell.edu ( Jan ) writes:

If any of you recall, I went off HRT a couple weeks ago.  The hot flashes are happening but not too bad, tolerable.  But the body aches that I had before HRT and that went away with HRT seem to be coming back.  The whole body aches, rather like the flu, and the joints ache.  Since all this went away with HRT and I have had a blood test for arthritis in the last few months, I think it is  related to perimeno. Anyone else with this problem?  Any help offered?  

I get this intermittently; in particular, I sometimes wake up with it in the middle of the night. I found that taking 400 IU of vitamin D, 500 mg of calcium, and 500 mg of magnesium before going to bed takes care of the problem, and it makes me nicely sleepy too.  It’s also part of what’s recommended for bone health.   I’m pretty sure this isn’t just placebo, because I sometimes forget to take the vitamins and then wake up aching. — "Moreover, fantasticality does a good deal better than sham psychology."  – Virginia Woolf ———————————————————– Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet                        p…@ddb.com

Response:

I also have body aches. I have a terible time in the morning with my ankles. They don’t seem to work properly. I have trouble going down the stairs and limp until my joints loosen up. I am on premphase. It’s helped a little but not enough. I think I need to get my medicine changed.

Response:

Jan, I also have been off HRT for about 3 weeks now and have noticed for a couple of days a slight ache in my left thigh that happens when I limb stairs. Like alot of things I don’t know if it is related to going off HRT or not. But other than that I feel good. Barbara jr…@cornell.edu ( Jan ) writes:

Hi,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

If any of you recall, I went off HRT a couple weeks ago.  The hot flashes are happening but not too bad, tolerable.  But the body aches that I had before HRT and that went away with HRT seem to be coming back.  The whole body aches, rather like the flu, and the joints ache.  Since all this went away with HRT and I have had a blood test for arthritis in the last few months, I think it is  related to perimeno. Anyone else with this problem?  Any help offered?  I do see my acupuncturist/chinese medicine practioner this afternoon, will consult about this as well, but would appreciate any ideas from you all. thnaks, — jr…@cornell.edu *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ EcoVillage Ithaca, looking for people to help plan, and live in, the second neighborhood group. for info:  http://www.cfe.cornell.edu/ecovillage/

Response:

Hi, If any of you recall, I went off HRT a couple weeks ago.  The hot flashes are happening but not too bad, tolerable.  But the body aches that I had before HRT and that went away with HRT seem to be coming back.  The whole body aches, rather like the flu, and the joints ache.  Since all this went away with HRT and I have had a blood test for arthritis in the last few months, I think it is  related to perimeno. Anyone else with this problem?  Any help offered?  I do see my acupuncturist/chinese medicine practioner this afternoon, will consult about this as well, but would appreciate any ideas from you all. thnaks, — jr…@cornell.edu *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ EcoVillage Ithaca, looking for people to help plan, and live in, the second neighborhood group. for info:  http://www.cfe.cornell.edu/ecovillage/

Response:

Iliotibial Band Syndrome?

Question:

Scott- I can sympathize with you.  I can down with IT band just prior to the LA Marathon 2 years ago.  I was getting the pain  sooner with every long run. Until, I was down to 3 miles  before the pain stopped me.  I Finally went to my DR. 1 week before the LA Marathon and he sent me to a physical therapist who specialized in sports injuries.  I went in on monday for treatment. It was 15 minutes in the whirlpool bath with the jet on my knee.  Then I was given a cross massage of the area.  This is supposed to breakdown the scar tissue and flush the area.  It’s painful.  Then I was given ultra sound treatment and began to do some leg strengthening exercise.  Last, I had to stretch the muscle.  I was iced for 15 minutes and went home.  I ran 6 miles slowly that night without any IT band pain. I went back on wednesday and friday for the same treatment.  And raced the Marathon on sunday.  I went 17 miles before it  hit and had to eventually walk the last 6 miles.  Start right now and go to a physical therapist while there is still time.  One more thing, the correct name for it it Iliotibial band friction syndrome.  It  is caused by the adductor muscle rubbing against the lateral epidondyl of the femur.  If you stretch the muscle a few times a day and when you run, your foot plant must be under your body not out front.  A coach told me this.   Well, good luck and let me know what happens.

Response:

  I have a message that I will not take credit for…it is something that a gal by the name of Jenny Ryan graciously shared with me…I hope it helps!! ken

i have continued to collect info since the last (dec. 5) posting included in the file that ken posted. (much of this is from rec.sport.triathlon, where this problem is often discussed ….) so here is the info i’ve collected beyond what ken posted. note that one fellow below calls itb syndrome "absolutely the shittiest, most insidious thing out there in the world of soft tissue injuries". jenny f Article: 24100 of rec.running Path: cherokee!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.running Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 61

<June ‘94 I completed my first 20K…no problems! <after the 20K, I decided to start training for my first marathon…which <was to be held in September.  By training began at about week 10, of the <20 week program by Runner’s World Magazine at beginner level… <at about week 16-17 (it is all a blur) I developed severe knee pain which <forced me to STOP my training!  After reading a few books I believed my <pain to be attributed to IT band syndrome… <I currently run ~4miles/day (5-6days/week).  I am wondering how long I <should keep up this reduced pace before I can start to increase my <daily run, without causing any harm to my knee – I have been conservative <with my running, in order to prevent any long term problems… <Any suggestions…exercise or stretching tips that maybe I might not have <come accross? Sounds like you may very well have been afflicted with I.T. Band Syndrome.  To treat I.T.B.S. one must first understand the causes.  Most orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists will tell you the best thing to do is to treat the cause rather than the symptoms. The I.T.Band is comprised of a tendon and muscle group that attaches at the pelvis just above the hip and runs down the side of the upper leg and across the bottom of the knee.  It provides stability to the upper leg and knee. When the muscles at the top of the tendon become overly tight, it causes the tendon to rub on a bony protrusion, or condyle,  on the side of the knee. At this point, the I.T. Band will make a popping or snapping sound much like when you snap a rubber band.  Eventually, the tendon becomes inflamed and begins to exhibit the same symptoms you noted.   You can treat the symptoms – Rest, Ice Massage, Stretching.  However, the best thing to do is to treat the cause, that being an overlying lack of strength and flexibility of the muscles in the pelvic region, especially those that attach to the I.T.Band.  I have had the same problem for almost two years and am finally starting to get over it.   A member in my local running club who had had the same problem suggested a series of stretches that seemed to help.  I’ll give you the one that seemed to help the most and is easy to perform almost anywhere (except maybe in a car). In this example, I will use the left leg as being the bad one since that is my case.  Stand with the your right (good) leg crossed over in front of your left (bad) leg.  Place your left hand behind your head.  While slowly leaning to the right, slide your right hand down your left leg until it reaches the inside of your left knee.  You should feel the stretching along the outside of your left leg.  You can adjust the area being stretched by adjusting your position.  The best results come when you stretch the muscles around you hip and pelvic region.   You won’t feel any results right away, but you should feel something within a week or two.  I found that I could run somewhat better within two week from the time I started this exercise. Something else I’ve found to be effective is weight lifting to strengthen all of the muscles in my legs.  At this point, anything helps. Gary Jewell Article: 24109 of rec.running Path: cherokee!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews Newsgroups: rec.running Organization: Netcom Lines: 40 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sj11-17.ix.netcom.com writes: Sounds like you may very well have been afflicted with I.T. Band Syndrome. To treat I.T.B.S. one must first understand the causes.  Most orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists will tell you the best thing to do is to treat the cause rather than the symptoms. You can treat the symptoms – Rest, Ice Massage, Stretching.  However, the best thing to do is to treat the cause, that being an overlying lack of strength and flexibility of the muscles in the pelvic region, especially those that attach to the I.T.Band.

If you only treat the symptoms, and not the cause, the problem will recur when you begin training again.  Anything that causes the tensor fascia lata muscle (ITB is an extension of this muscle) to spasm is a potential cause.  In a graduate level athletic training class on management of lower extremity athletic injuries that I had last semester, these potential causes were listed:  any drastic change in training (within the last 3-6 weeks), change in running surface, worn midsole in shoe, muscle imbalance, and limited range of motion at either the knee, ankle, or pelvis.  Poor body mechanics at the distal joints can cause problems farther up the kinetic chain.  Stretching the ITB, and strengthening the leg are important. Julie —                         |                           Article: 24129 of rec.running Path: cherokee!csn!boulder!usenet Newsgroups: rec.running Organization: Climate Diagnostics Center Lines: 51 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: bjerknes.colorado.edu Sounds like you may very well have been afflicted with I.T. Band Syndrome.  To treat I.T.B.S. one must first understand the causes.Most orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists will tell you the best thing to do is to treat the cause rather than the symptoms. You can treat the symptoms – Rest, Ice Massage, Stretching.  However,the best thing to do is to treat the cause, that being an overlying lack of strength and flexibility of the muscles in the pelvic region, especially those that attach to the I.T.Band.

   If you only treat the symptoms, and not the cause, the problem will    recur when you begin training again.  Anything that causes the tensor    fascia lata muscle (ITB is an extension of this muscle) to spasm is a    potential cause.  In a graduate level athletic training class on    management of lower extremity athletic injuries that I had last    semester, these potential causes were listed:  any drastic change in    training (within the last 3-6 weeks), change in running surface, worn    midsole in shoe, muscle imbalance, and limited range of motion at    either the knee, ankle, or pelvis.  Poor body mechanics at    the distal joints can cause problems farther up the kinetic    chain.  Stretching the ITB, and strengthening the leg are important.    Julie While treating the causes is important, in many cases THERE IS NO OBVIOUS CAUSE, or, it is untreatable.  In any case, treating the symptoms is just as important. Pain and inflammation can cause reactions like muscles spasms, favoring the limb, decrease of all activity, etc. All of these can lead to further problems in nearby joints and in prolongization of the injury.  Pain, is, of course painful as well which is psychologiclly difficult. You should look for causes and correct them if possible but you won’t necessarily find them. If suffered from ITB for over 2 years. None of the causes above applied at the time of the injury. The most likely "cause" in my case is wide hips which aren’t too correctable.  I know of others who didn’t have any obvious cause as well. Sometimes, you’re just unlucky. It’s frustrating when people take the causes and solutions as gospel. I’ve had physical thereapists tell me that I was inflexible w/o even examining me (the dr. had even said I wasn’t). They also weren’t too happy with me when I said the 4 times daily stretching regime they had me on didn’t work and implied that I was either lying about the stretching or not doing it right since it HAD to work as they had read it was supposed to. Cathy S. — Article: 24210 of rec.running Newsgroups: rec.running Path: cherokee!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink .net!demon!argv.co.uk!john Distribution: world Organization: argv[0] ltd, … read more »

Response:

I have had pain that started two weeks ago in the middle of a 12 mile run. The pain is on the left side of my knee. Hurts like hell!. Stopped running for two weeks, Did alternative training, I have access to treadmills in four feet of water (Yes, in the pool) and biking. Today I tried to run outside again, started to hurt (mild pain) by 3 miles, had to stop at 5.5. I know that the cause has been too much too soon, I was in training for the London Marathon. Which I raised over $2000 for a charity, so I am going to walk it if I have to (can’t stand that thought) Besides the recent article in runners world, does anyone have any good info on IT band Syndrome? Especially tips on how to  train through the healing process. At this point I believe that the marathon on April 2 will be out of reach for my body, but I’d be interested in what others have experienced. One last question, Does anyone know the feasability of training on a treadmill in four feet of water, with limited dry land running, and then trying to run a marathon? Please E-mail me in addition to posting your reply. Thanks in advance, Scott

Response:

: I have had pain that started two weeks ago in the middle of a 12 mile run. : The pain is on the left side of my knee. Hurts like hell!. Stopped running : for two weeks, Did alternative training, I have access to treadmills in : four feet of water (Yes, in the pool) and biking. Today I tried to run : outside again, started to hurt (mild pain) by 3 miles, had to stop at 5.5.   sounds like a newcomer to the ITB-club. :-( : I know that the cause has been too much too soon, I was in training for the : London Marathon. Which I raised over $2000 for a charity, so I am going to : walk it if I have to (can’t stand that thought) :   : Besides the recent article in runners world, does anyone have any good info : on IT band Syndrome? Especially tips on how to  train through the healing : process. At this point I believe that the marathon on April 2 will be out : of reach for my body, but I’d be interested in what others have : experienced. That depends on how much you over did it… I was training for my first marathon, and guess what hit me 1 month before the race…darn ITB-syndrome.  Lately I have been taking it quite easy ~25miles/week down from ~35.  I guess I have been kind of paranoid, because it was quite a set back…I over did it because I was unsure of the problem… : One last question, Does anyone know the feasability of : training on a treadmill in four feet of water, with limited dry land : running, and then trying to run a marathon? :   : Please E-mail me in addition to posting your reply. : Thanks in advance, :   : Scott I have a message that I will not take credit for…it is something that a gal by the name of Jenny Ryan graciously shared with me…I hope it helps!! ken Any suggestions…exercise or stretching tips that maybe I might not have come accross? Thanks MUCHLY! Ken

this problem is *sooo* maddening. For several months (maybe more?) i have collected everything i can find on ITB problem. i truly believe now from my own experiences that stretching is the key. tons and tons of it. for the rest of your life. i am enclosing a file with all the info i’ve collected. in there are a lot of good stretches, and other advice. good luck!!                    jenny p.s. you would not believe how many people i’ve sent this file to. you are not alone!! I’ve been experiencing a pain on the top of my tibial bone, which kind of sticks out below my knee on the outside (someone suggested it my be the " popateal? – spelling? phonetic).  I ran a marathon on July 25, which was very hilly and it started to hurt around mile 18.  I’ve not run since then and I’ve been on 2400 of ibuprofin and icing it.  It’s slowing going away but I’m curious if others have had this type of problem, what it is and how to prevent it in the future — stretches for this part of the leg?

sounds like it could be the infamous illiotibial band. it is a band that runs from your hip, and crosses your knee on the outside. when you get tired, and your form deteriorates, it starts to rub on the bone with every step. eventually it becomes inflamed, and starts to really hurt. if you let it get bad, it can lay you up for months. i speak from experience. its like a tendonitis. ice, ibuprofin etc, will help. depending on how soon you caught it, that might be enough. if like me you don’t notice until it becomes a searing pain, you might be in for a long recovery. you may have to increase your running very slowly. in the three bouts i have had of this, i start with 5 minutes, a few days later i can gradually do 10, etc, etc.  I was once told by another rec.runner that his doctor said to increase at most .5 miles per week. the most important thing is that if it starts to hurt STOP immediately, or you may regress back to the beginning of the recovery stage. Ideally you should plan your run so you stop before it starts to hurt. There are also several stretches that my physical therapist recommends. I have posted these before, but will append them below. they won’t get rid of the problem, but supposedly will prevent a recurrence. this is a very hard thing to get rid of. if you are impatient like me you will blow months of good running. i had a bad bout in 88, got over it. had minor flare ups in intermediate years. got it bad this april. was recovering nicely and got carried away and it came back. i have been stuck at 15 miles /week for 2.5 months now. (was doing 40 before, so i am quite frustrated.) be very good to yourself! hope you get better soon. jenny p.s. here are the stretches.  My PT showed me several. One is the standard one you always read about (legs crossed, standing etc.) Two others are done lying down. In the first you lie on the left side of the bed to stretch your right leg. Keeping your back flat on the bed, you extend your right leg and cross it over your left (keeping it straight) so it hangs over the side of the bed. You will feel the pull on your ITB esp. near the hip. Go to the other side of the bed to stretch your left. The second is also done lying down. To stretch your right leg you bend it and grab your thigh pushing the bent leg across your left. you can adjust where you feel the stretch (near the knee or the hip) by pushing the knee closer to your head. if this does not make sense let me know and i will try to explain better. the final one is a yoga stretch which i don’t know if i can explain. But for me this is the best one, so i’ll try. Sit up on the floor with your legs extended in front of you. To stretch your right leg, cross it over your left with your right foot flat on the floor. (so right knee is bent.) Now, here is the hard part. Take your left arm and place it to the left of your right knee and to the right of your left leg, grabbing the left leg below the knee. (Got it???) Now twist your upper body to the right as far as you can, looking over the right shoulder. While you are doing this, you will be stretching your right leg with that left arm that is still holding below the left knee. (Whew!! If this makes no sense, look in a yoga book, its called lion’s twist.) p.p.s. i will also include some postings from others that i have downloaded in my own quest for recovery. For all those who admitted interest in the trials and tribulations of my once very painful knee (yup, it don’t hurt no more!), there follows a quick synopsis as well as an overly detailed account of my bout with my rebellious Iliotibial Band (ITB). For those with barely a passing interest:   – My right knee started hurting.   – Saw many expensive doctors and specialists.   – Stretched, took drugs, wore an elastic knee brace.   – Ran 7 miles last week without knee pain.   – Hurray! Yippee! Oh Happy Day! SYNOPSIS:    (semi-short) About 2 months ago, after spending 2 months working up from 0 to 10 mpw, I started having knee pains on the lower outside of my right knee. It really hurt going up and down hills and for the rest of the day. Next morning, pain was gone. Tried to run again, but only made it 1 mile before having to quit. Tried resting it for a week, no better. Tried two weeks, only slightly better. Saw several doctors, and it turned out to be ITB tendonitis. Started taking Naprosyn (anti- inflammatory) and stretching the ITB. After a week, I tried a 2 mile run with an elastic knee brace (doctor said if it helps, wear it, but it was not prescribed) and had no knee pain during or after! Ran 7 miles last week and am working on another seven this week. Hallelujah! DETAILED DESCRIPTION:   (including PT regimen) Symptoms:    Faint stabbing pain just below and on the outside of the knee    about 1 mile into the run. Flared up to moderate stabbing pain    on upgrades and downgrades, subsided back to to faint pain    on flat surface. Pain intensity gradually increased to the    point where I thought I should stop, then BAM!, the sharp    searing pain caused me to stumble. It only lasted a second and    after walking for 5 minutes, it seemed OK. I tried a very slow    jog but was hit by another sharp pain. I called it quits at that    point, walked to my car, drove home, and threw an ice pack on    my knee, wiped the tears of frustration and disappointment from    my eyes and prayed that it wasn’t as serious as it seemed. After    an hour of ice (on and off of course :) ), I got up for dinner    and the pain still hit the knee for brief seconds for the rest    of the day.    The next morning, the knee didn’t hurt at all. So I tried a    2 mile walk in a local park. The same series of symptoms started    again after a mile, brought on even worse by a long upgrade in    the trail. by the time I reached the corresponding downgrade at    the end of the trail, the sharp stabbing pains were there again.    I had to use a stick to make it down OK. But I did notice that if    I turned my right foot outward, 90 degrees from my line of travel,    the pain stopped. Physical Therapy:    I will endeavor to explain what my PT explained to me about the    ITB and what to do about it. However, not being a medical person    myself, I am sure I will probably get something wrong somewhere. :)    I do have the stretches and exercises in front of me, so    I know that part is correct.    The ITB is a long tendon like band connecting several hip muscles    to the tibia, just below and outside the knee. The hip muscles    involved are the piriformis (somewhere on the lower

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