Question:
I used my real name. Is it paranoid to think that they were somehow prepared for me? Did I give enough information here to identify myself and the place I planned to visit? Oh not at all, Ellen. You see, because you didn’t tell us the name of the chiropractor you planned on visiting, I went and called all 60,000 of them this morning to warn them of your arrival.
LOL!! stop spam–bookmark this: http://www.spamfree.org/resources/header_reading.html The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they’re okay, then it’s you. Rita Mae Brown http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-alanislyrics.html VERY funny! check out the whole site
Response:
Doctors Kill More People Than Guns and Traffic Accidents Combined By Don Harkins The Idaho Observer – April, 1999 SANDPOINT — Last St. Patrick’s Day, Sandpoint Chiropractor Blaze Welch gave a lecture on how to get off of the disease scary-go-round at the Gardenia Center here. The purpose of the talk, which was sponsored by the North Idaho chapter of Vaccination Liberation, was to teach people that they are responsible for their own health. Dr. Welch also discussed figures from right out of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) which prove, through accurate interpretations of their own words, that in the last century we chose the wrong fork in the road with regard to our health care paradigm. Most people have been conditioned to believe in what is called the germ theory of disease — that germs cause disease. The truth is that germs (bacteria) are everywhere and they are attracted to and proliferate in dis-eased tissues. Bacteria decompose dead matter. That is their job. For instance, when a tree dies, bacteria come in and eat the tree and it eventually becomes soil. Bacteria do not eat a live, healthy tree. The same thing is true in people — bacteria are attracted to dead matter. Therefore, if you have dead matter in your body, bacteria will come in and get to work decomposing the dead tissue so that it may eventually become soil. In the mid 1800s, western medical science had the choice of going one of two ways. Bechamp’s theory of disease maintained that every living thing has arisen from the microzyma (the fundamental unit of the corporate organism) and every living thing is reducible to the microzyma. Bechamp believed that microzymas secrete fermentative substances that aid in digestion in a healthy body and evolve into bacteria when they encounter dead or damaged cells. Pasteur’s germ theory of disease maintained that diseases come into our bodies and make germs that we must fight so that we may be rid of them. J.I. Rodale explained Pasteur’s germ theory of disease by stating that germs live in the air, and every once in awhile get into a human body, multiply and cause illness. Nothing to it at all. All you have to do is kill germs and disease is licked. Bechamp’s theory placed all of the responsibility of disease prevention on the individual and his lifestyle. In a practical sense, there was no money in that and people would be empowered with the ability to resist dis-ease by taking care of themselves. Western medical science went with Pasteur’s theory because it opened the door which created the world’s medical and pharmaceutical industries. Since the 1850s, we have been developing new drugs to attack and kill the disease invaders and the result has been epidemics of cancers and sicknesses and diseases — and a very rich and powerful pharmaceutical industry. Last year, commented Dr. Welch, the pharmaceutical industry did $182 billion in drug sales world wide. . . . Dr. Welch read off some statistics which should cause concern to anybody who sees an allopathic doctor, has medical insurance or may end up in the hospital someday. Again, the following admissions were taken from JAMA: The top five causes of death in the United States, in order, are tobacco, alcohol, medical malpractice, traffic and firearms. According to JAMA, doctors kill more people than auto accidents and guns. With that in mind, one has to wonder why gun control is such a hot legislative issue when, perhaps, we should be more concerned about doctor control. The number of people that doctors kill per day from medical malpractice is roughly equal to the amount of people that would die if every day, three jumbo jets crashed and killed everybody on board, commented Dr. Welch who added, in defense of his own profession, just imagine what headlines would result if a chiropractor or a naturopath accidentally killed just one patient? Another JAMA statistic stated that 1/5 (20 percent) of all people who see an allopath will suffer a doctor-induced injury. Again, according to JAMA, 16 percent of all people who die in the hospital are determined by autopsy to have died of something other than their admission diagnosis. In other words, the doctor had no idea what was really wrong with the patient and, therefore, the patient may have died for want of appropriate care that would have been subsequent to an accurate diagnosis. Another trade publication, American Medical News, stated that 28 percent of people admitted to hospitals are there because they have suffered an adverse reaction to prescribed drugs. We are miserably losing the battle against viruses and bacteria. Antibiotics do not work. We need to take a different tack because this is obviously not working, said Dr. Welch. Dr. Welch made numerous practical and logical observations throughout his lecture. One of them is so obvious that it deserves mention here. When there is an epidemic of, say, pertussis in a school and 14 of 200 kids get sick, who gets studied? he asked. The answer, of course, is that the sick kids get studied. They get studied by the county health district and the health district accumulates its data and then tells the newspapers about the epidemic of sickness and everybody then flocks down to the health district or goes to see their doctor to get vaccinated. Would it not be more appropriate to study the 186 kids that did not get sick? I asked Dr. Welch. Dr. Welch also read a quote from the British Medical Journal which states that only one percent of all scientific research papers which explore medicine are scientifically sound. So, if that is true, then not only are allopathic doctors incorrect in their understanding of the basic nature of disease, they are basing 99 percent of their conclusions, and therefore their diagnosis and treatment of people, on flawed science. The Idaho Observer P.O. Box 1353 Rathdrum, Idaho 83858-1353 http://proliberty.com/observer/ (Originally found at www.sightings.com)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think chiro’s are absolutely great, been to different ones many times. Some are better than others, just like anything else in the med field. I’ve been to see MD’s who were total jerks and who obviously didn’t care if I dropped dead in front of them. And a number of MD’s who really pushed the surgery trip when I really didn’t need surgery. I went to one chiro who wasn’t effective in treating me, but he was from the "gentle, gentle" school (just do it gradually with several visits) and I didn’t go back. But most of them are pretty damn competent, and it’s easy to see that they know far, far more about back care than any of the MD’s. I well remember going to an MD when I had such excrutiating back pain I could barely walk or even stand. I had to use a cane (and was in my early 40’s) and, of course, this idiot says to me "Just hop up on the examining table there." Right! OTOH, you go to a chiro, they have a table that is vertical, then you just stand in front of it and lean forward, and it slowly and carefully goes to the horizontal position so he can work on you. Pretty clear who understands backs. If you go to one and it hurts more later, go back and tell him. But, of course, like with anything else, I always ask around and try to find out who other people think is good if I’m in a strange area. Same as with dentists. You should probably ask at dental labs and find out who does the most crowns and stay away from them. 8-) One further note — a few years ago I started doing yoga, and try to practice every morning for about 20 minutes. And as long as I do this, I don’t need a chiro. In fact, I’ve learned to manipulate my back the same way, more or less, that the chiro does, with yoga positions. I’ve only been to one chiro myself, for a sore neck (pulled muscle). I did get treated on the first visit and he told me that I only needed to come back if the problem didn’t resolve, and it wasn’t that expensive (I think I paid it myself). However, a few hours after treatment, my neck felt worse than it had before treatment, and it was several more days before the soreness resolved. Overall, I think the treatment was a waste of time. — Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN
http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Additional viewpoints on the germ theory and the risks from pharmaceuticals are posted at http://doctoryourself.com/germs.html http://doctoryourself.com/placebo.html Thank you for posting this article. — Over 155 articles (indexed by topic, or keyword with an on-site search engine) plus more than 2,000 scientific references on nutritional therapeutics are posted at http://doctoryourself.com I have no – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doctors Kill More People Than Guns and Traffic Accidents Combined By Don Harkins The Idaho Observer – April, 1999 SANDPOINT — Last St. Patrick’s Day, Sandpoint Chiropractor Blaze Welch gave a lecture on how to get off of the disease scary-go-round at the Gardenia Center here. The purpose of the talk, which was sponsored by the North Idaho chapter of Vaccination Liberation, was to teach people that they are responsible for their own health. Dr. Welch also discussed figures from right out of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) which prove, through accurate interpretations of their own words, that in the last century we chose the wrong fork in the road with regard to our health care paradigm. Most people have been conditioned to believe in what is called the germ theory of disease — that germs cause disease. The truth is that germs (bacteria) are everywhere and they are attracted to and proliferate in dis-eased tissues. Bacteria decompose dead matter. That is their job. For instance, when a tree dies, bacteria come in and eat the tree and it eventually becomes soil. Bacteria do not eat a live, healthy tree. The same thing is true in people — bacteria are attracted to dead matter. Therefore, if you have dead matter in your body, bacteria will come in and get to work decomposing the dead tissue so that it may eventually become soil. In the mid 1800s, western medical science had the choice of going one of two ways. Bechamp’s theory of disease maintained that every living thing has arisen from the microzyma (the fundamental unit of the corporate organism) and every living thing is reducible to the microzyma. Bechamp believed that microzymas secrete fermentative substances that aid in digestion in a healthy body and evolve into bacteria when they encounter dead or damaged cells. Pasteur’s germ theory of disease maintained that diseases come into our bodies and make germs that we must fight so that we may be rid of them. J.I. Rodale explained Pasteur’s germ theory of disease by stating that germs live in the air, and every once in awhile get into a human body, multiply and cause illness. Nothing to it at all. All you have to do is kill germs and disease is licked. Bechamp’s theory placed all of the responsibility of disease prevention on the individual and his lifestyle. In a practical sense, there was no money in that and people would be empowered with the ability to resist dis- ease by taking care of themselves. Western medical science went with Pasteur’s theory because it opened the door which created the world’s medical and pharmaceutical industries. Since the 1850s, we have been developing new drugs to attack and kill the disease invaders and the result has been epidemics of cancers and sicknesses and diseases — and a very rich and powerful pharmaceutical industry. Last year, commented Dr. Welch, the pharmaceutical industry did $182 billion in drug sales world wide. . . . Dr. Welch read off some statistics which should cause concern to anybody who sees an allopathic doctor, has medical insurance or may end up in the hospital someday. Again, the following admissions were taken from JAMA: The top five causes of death in the United States, in order, are tobacco, alcohol, medical malpractice, traffic and firearms. According to JAMA, doctors kill more people than auto accidents and guns. With that in mind, one has to wonder why gun control is such a hot legislative issue when, perhaps, we should be more concerned about doctor control. The number of people that doctors kill per day from medical malpractice is roughly equal to the amount of people that would die if every day, three jumbo jets crashed and killed everybody on board, commented Dr. Welch who added, in defense of his own profession, just imagine what headlines would result if a chiropractor or a naturopath accidentally killed just one patient? Another JAMA statistic stated that 1/5 (20 percent) of all people who see an allopath will suffer a doctor-induced injury. Again, according to JAMA, 16 percent of all people who die in the hospital are determined by autopsy to have died of something other than their admission diagnosis. In other words, the doctor had no idea what was really wrong with the patient and, therefore, the patient may have died for want of appropriate care that would have been subsequent to an accurate diagnosis. Another trade publication, American Medical News, stated that 28 percent of people admitted to hospitals are there because they have suffered an adverse reaction to prescribed drugs. We are miserably losing the battle against viruses and bacteria. Antibiotics do not work. We need to take a different tack because this is obviously not working, said Dr. Welch. Dr. Welch made numerous practical and logical observations throughout his lecture. One of them is so obvious that it deserves mention here. When there is an epidemic of, say, pertussis in a school and 14 of 200 kids get sick, who gets studied? he asked. The answer, of course, is that the sick kids get studied. They get studied by the county health district and the health district accumulates its data and then tells the newspapers about the epidemic of sickness and everybody then flocks down to the health district or goes to see their doctor to get vaccinated. Would it not be more appropriate to study the 186 kids that did not get sick? I asked Dr. Welch. Dr. Welch also read a quote from the British Medical Journal which states that only one percent of all scientific research papers which explore medicine are scientifically sound. So, if that is true, then not only are allopathic doctors incorrect in their understanding of the basic nature of disease, they are basing 99 percent of their conclusions, and therefore their diagnosis and treatment of people, on flawed science. The Idaho Observer P.O. Box 1353 Rathdrum, Idaho 83858-1353 http://proliberty.com/observer/ (Originally found at www.sightings.com) I think chiro’s are absolutely great, been to different ones many times. Some are better than others, just like anything else in the med field. I’ve been to see MD’s who were total jerks and who obviously didn’t care if I dropped dead in front of them. And a number of MD’s who really pushed the surgery trip when I really didn’t need surgery. I went to one chiro who wasn’t effective in treating me, but he was from the "gentle, gentle" school (just do it gradually with several visits) and I didn’t go back. But most of them are pretty damn competent, and it’s easy to see that they know far, far more about back care than any of the MD’s. I well remember going to an MD when I had such excrutiating back pain I could barely walk or even stand. I had to use a cane (and was in my early 40’s) and, of course, this idiot says to me "Just hop up on the examining table there." Right! OTOH, you go to a chiro, they have a table that is vertical, then you just stand in front of it and lean forward, and it slowly and carefully goes to the horizontal position so he can work on you. Pretty clear who understands backs. If you go to one and it hurts more later, go back and tell him. But, of course, like with anything else, I always ask around and try to find out who other people think is good if I’m in a strange area. Same as with dentists. You should probably ask at dental labs and find out who does the most crowns and stay away from them. 8-) One further note — a few years ago I started doing yoga, and try to practice every morning for about 20 minutes. And as long as I do this, I don’t need a chiro. In fact, I’ve learned to manipulate my back the same way, more or less, that the chiro does, with yoga positions. I’ve only been to one chiro myself, for a sore neck (pulled muscle). I did get treated on the first visit and he told me that I only needed to come back if the problem didn’t resolve, and it wasn’t that expensive (I think I paid it myself). However, a few hours after treatment, my neck felt worse than it had before treatment, and it was several more days before the soreness resolved. Overall, I think the treatment was a waste of time. — Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us
– Over 155 articles (indexed by topic, or keyword with an on-site search engine) plus more than 2,000 scientific references on nutritional therapeutics are posted at http://doctoryourself.com I have no Before you buy.
Response:
I tried Chiropractic(156 visits over a 3 year period) as well as but not limited to Allopathic Care, Herbs,Horse medicine from a Veterinarian
Yikes! Can I assume that the vet was not aware that you were using the meds on yourself? If not, that DVM must not value his license to practice medicine very much! BTW, what does the AKA, VAK after your name stand for? —- Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002
Response:
can give the raspberries but can’t take em hey?? 
) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – **SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM! ellie … this is Usenet … you seem to have plenty of criticism of others … but appear unable to "take it" …
Response:
I thought that several adventurous people here would visit chiropractors in their area and post the results of their encounters. What I did NOT expect was to be the only one here willing to spend a few dollars trying HLE’s lovely fraudtest.
Maybe that’s because other people have better things to do with their time and money than to waste them on a witch hunt. It was a surprise to be accused variously of falsifying my reports, acting fraudulently with the chiropractors, lying about what occurred in the chiros’ offices, and even fabricating the visits.
Yeah, go figure. You commit fraud, and we call you out on the carpet for it. Then you act all surprised and indignant. Yeah, it must be nice to have a double standard. Don’t you understand that the actual visits were FAR more entertaining than this newsgroup is?
Obtain psychiatric counseling. In those two previous visits I was carefully objective in my dialogs. It would have been easy (I think) to stimulate ethical/professional transgressions by asking leading questions, etc. But I did not do that. In fact, I was deliberately reserved in those discussions because I did not wish to be accused of causing the problems which I then reported. That won’t be true tomorrow: my LAST chiropractor visit! I’ll go to what looks from the outside like a workmen’s comp factory. My new plan is to really "hurt" when I’m there, and to flat out whisper to the chiro, asking him to help me put together a claim against the company where the "work injury" occured. Obviously, I’ll leave the Rolex at home. Don’t expect a benign report from that visit; I’m more biased than ever before and plan to push hard to stimulate fraud.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Attention on deck. Ellen has just admitted that she’s planning on committing fraud. Ellen, if you’re reading this: You have ZERO credibility. Anything you say shall be viewed as such. Another point. Yes, I have some nice things. Is that somehow a problem for you chiros?
No, it’s not. So you have money? Good for you. Perhaps you could discuss your Rolex and your Mercedes a little more – all the while making yourself look like even more vain. <SNIP rags-to-riches sob story What the hell sort of idiocy or hypocrisy (or greed? or envy? or malevolence? or stupidity? or mental gangrene?) does it take to criticize me because my business succeeded?
Blah, blah, blah, blah… There are lots of people in this country who’ve busted their ass, played by the rules, and finally reaped the benefits of many years of diligent hard work. And they don’t blather about their "audacious" rolex and their mercedes… And yes, It’s true that I had only two years of college and a low GPA, but did I mention that while in school I worked full time and also raised two younger siblings? SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM!
Wow, Ellen can dish it out, but she sure can’t take it. 
Response:
Question Ellen, have you ever really had back or neck pain? If not you still have a lot to learn. It seems those who love trashing things have never had I expect you would get different answers whatever kind of doctor you went to see, therefore you seem to be wasting time and money. Sorry but I prefer to deal with people who have actually been there and done that. Jan
Response:
I thought that several adventurous people here would visit chiropractors in their area and post the results of their encounters. What I did NOT expect was to be the only one here willing to spend a few dollars trying HLE’s lovely fraudtest.
Not everyone here has the free cash (or time) to dedicate to the effort. Besides, with 60,000 chiropractors out there, it might take a while to accumulate a statistical universe. I’ve only been to one chiro myself, for a sore neck (pulled muscle). I did get treated on the first visit and he told me that I only needed to come back if the problem didn’t resolve, and it wasn’t that expensive (I think I paid it myself). However, a few hours after treatment, my neck felt worse than it had before treatment, and it was several more days before the soreness resolved. Overall, I think the treatment was a waste of time. — David Wright :: wright at ibnets.com :: Not a Spokesman for Anyone These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders."
Response:
Ellen your paranoid! It comes from reading too much quack watch propaganda. There ya go my opinion and no charge. Maybe next time. Second opinions available upon request. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m back, in the poltergeist sense. This morning’s chirobusting visit was interesting. The facility signage emphasizes workman’s comp claims, and the building has a certain sleazy appearance. There were a couple of people waiting in the reception area, and perhaps 2-3 practitioners working. I wore jeans and tennis shoes, no jewelry. It took a long time to answer the many questions on the input documents. Lots of detail about me, family, health, background, company, etc. etc. I claimed insurance this time. NO CHARGE FOR THE INITIAL CONSULTATION. A pleasant gentleman age about 60 spent 5 minutes talking about my problem, history, etc. From his questions he had obviously read my input document. No manipulation, no xrays, only a moment of hands-on. Lots of observation of me walking, standing, bending. His conclusion was interesting but (to a chirobuster carrying a recorder in her purse) disappointing. He said I appear to be okay, and that I have a minor muscle strain. Nothing more nor less, and probably due to activity rather than to some structural problem that could be remedied by him. In a rather insinuating way, I asked whether I could build a claim against my employer, and he said "Probably not." He recommended a lower level of strenuous activity for a week, and said goodbye. At the desk I asked "When’s my next appointment." The girl there checked some notes and said "The doctor didn’t ask that you make one." I used my real name. Is it paranoid to think that they were somehow prepared for me? Did I give enough information here to identify myself and the place I planned to visit? Or maybe I found an honest chiropractor.
Response:
I thought that several adventurous people here would visit chiropractors in their area and post the results of their encounters.
why on earth would you think that? you obviously have more free time than the rest of us. but since you are so into this, why not add acupuncturists into your agenda? i’d love to hear those experiences–how they deal with your imaginary health issues–as well. for that matter, why not throw in some actual MDs to even out the playing field. (an even playing field would be desirable in any sort of credible experiment, yes?) do that, and i’m all ear–eyes. What I did NOT expect was to be the only one here willing to spend a few dollars trying HLE’s lovely fraudtest.
believe it, sistah. some of us just aren’t THAT into quack busting. i bet you could get on the QW payroll in no time flat, btw. (not that you need to be on a payroll, of course—rolex’s and mercedes et al) It was a surprise to be accused variously of falsifying my reports, acting fraudulently with the chiropractors, lying about what occurred in the chiros’ offices, and even fabricating the visits. Don’t you understand that the actual visits were FAR more entertaining than this newsgroup is?
don’t you understand that some people just think you’re a bit fanatical and weird about bashing chiros? just like some people think ilena is fanatical about silicone and todd is fanatical about squashed baby heads……. Another point. Yes, I have some nice things. Is that somehow a problem for you chiros?
you’re having the nice things isn’t the problem. the way you beat us over the head with your life of luxury in your posts is the problem. all that brand name dropping is giving me a headache! The first year after starting my company I worked more than 80 hours a week, 30 of them in a restaurant to pay the bills; my only income. My entire life savings (and loans from family and friends, and maxed out credit cards, and overdraft protection) was on the line. Everything! My company was a classic case of entrepreneurism and risktaking. It is now very productive and making good money, and I damn well earned the benefits therefrom.
and telling everyone about it to be sure!!! LOL! What the hell sort of idiocy or hypocrisy (or greed? or envy? or malevolence? or stupidity? or mental gangrene?) does it take to criticize me because my business succeeded?
no, bragging and being ostentatious with newly gained wealth can be a problem for a lot of folks, i reckon. And yes, It’s true that I had only two years of college and a low GPA, but did I mention that while in school I worked full time and also raised two younger siblings? SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM!
get used to it. it’s called usenet. you aren’t the only one here allowed to criticize or to be criticized. stop spam–bookmark this: http://www.spamfree.org/resources/header_reading.html The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they’re okay, then it’s you. Rita Mae Brown http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-alanislyrics.html VERY funny! check out the whole site
Response:
I’m back, in the poltergeist sense. planned to visit? Or maybe I found an honest chiropractor.
Well in my almost 64 years and 23 maybe 24 Chiros in 5 different states I have yet to find a dishonest one, so perhaps u hunt for "the needle in the haystack" . — John Basham AKA VAK Before you buy.
Response:
I used my real name. Is it paranoid to think that they were somehow prepared for me? Did I give enough information here to identify myself and the place I planned to visit?
Oh not at all, Ellen. You see, because you didn’t tell us the name of the chiropractor you planned on visiting, I went and called all 60,000 of them this morning to warn them of your arrival. Or maybe I found an honest chiropractor.
That goes against everything in your current belief system.
Response:
I think it’s more likely that your on a wild goose chase and were proved wrong. This chiro was honest with you and disappointed you by being honest and would not treat an obviously fraudulent claim, something docs do all the time I should add. I think give up and maybe try looking for fraud at the local doctors surgery, maybe you will have more luck. In my opinion you just proved that the chiro is worthwhile and reliable. Maybe you should publish his contact details so people will know a good chiropractor to visit. I think the harder you try the more kicks in the arse you will get, till eventually you change your mind, or give up your witch hunt. Love and Light Steven
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m back, in the poltergeist sense. This morning’s chirobusting visit was interesting. The facility signage emphasizes workman’s comp claims, and the building has a certain sleazy appearance. There were a couple of people waiting in the reception area, and perhaps 2-3 practitioners working. I wore jeans and tennis shoes, no jewelry. It took a long time to answer the many questions on the input documents. Lots of detail about me, family, health, background, company, etc. etc. I claimed insurance this time. NO CHARGE FOR THE INITIAL CONSULTATION. A pleasant gentleman age about 60 spent 5 minutes talking about my problem, history, etc. From his questions he had obviously read my input document. No manipulation, no xrays, only a moment of hands-on. Lots of observation of me walking, standing, bending. His conclusion was interesting but (to a chirobuster carrying a recorder in her purse) disappointing. He said I appear to be okay, and that I have a minor muscle strain. Nothing more nor less, and probably due to activity rather than to some structural problem that could be remedied by him. In a rather insinuating way, I asked whether I could build a claim against my employer, and he said "Probably not." He recommended a lower level of strenuous activity for a week, and said goodbye. At the desk I asked "When’s my next appointment." The girl there checked some notes and said "The doctor didn’t ask that you make one." I used my real name. Is it paranoid to think that they were somehow prepared for me? Did I give enough information here to identify myself and the place I planned to visit? Or maybe I found an honest chiropractor.
Response:
In article That goes against everything in your current belief system.
Please read my post msg 11 thanks — John Basham AKA VAK Before you buy.
Response:
Please read my post msg 11 "Well in my almost 64 years and 23 maybe 24 Chiros in 5 different states I have yet to find a dishonest one, so perhaps u hunt for "the needle in the haystack" ."
Agreed.
Response:
I’m back, in the poltergeist sense. This morning’s chirobusting visit was interesting. The facility signage emphasizes workman’s comp claims, and the building has a certain sleazy appearance. There were a couple of people waiting in the reception area, and perhaps 2-3 practitioners working. I wore jeans and tennis shoes, no jewelry. It took a long time to answer the many questions on the input documents. Lots of detail about me, family, health, background, company, etc. etc. I claimed insurance this time. NO CHARGE FOR THE INITIAL CONSULTATION. A pleasant gentleman age about 60 spent 5 minutes talking about my problem, history, etc. From his questions he had obviously read my input document. No manipulation, no xrays, only a moment of hands-on. Lots of observation of me walking, standing, bending. His conclusion was interesting but (to a chirobuster carrying a recorder in her purse) disappointing. He said I appear to be okay, and that I have a minor muscle strain. Nothing more nor less, and probably due to activity rather than to some structural problem that could be remedied by him. In a rather insinuating way, I asked whether I could build a claim against my employer, and he said "Probably not." He recommended a lower level of strenuous activity for a week, and said goodbye. At the desk I asked "When’s my next appointment." The girl there checked some notes and said "The doctor didn’t ask that you make one." I used my real name. Is it paranoid to think that they were somehow prepared for me? Did I give enough information here to identify myself and the place I planned to visit? Or maybe I found an honest chiropractor.
Response:
Performing fraud to detect fraud will taint the objectivity of the observer. If you play in the cow pen you will get cow mess on you. If you mess with the bull you will get the horn. Is this a situation of the pot calling the kettle black? — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought that several adventurous people here would visit chiropractors in their area and post the results of their encounters. What I did NOT expect was to be the only one here willing to spend a few dollars trying HLE’s lovely fraudtest. It was a surprise to be accused variously of falsifying my reports, acting fraudulently with the chiropractors, lying about what occurred in the chiros’ offices, and even fabricating the visits. Don’t you understand that the actual visits were FAR more entertaining than this newsgroup is? In those two previous visits I was carefully objective in my dialogs. It would have been easy (I think) to stimulate ethical/professional transgressions by asking leading questions, etc. But I did not do that. In fact, I was deliberately reserved in those discussions because I did not wish to be accused of causing the problems which I then reported. That won’t be true tomorrow: my LAST chiropractor visit! I’ll go to what looks from the outside like a workmen’s comp factory. My new plan is to really "hurt" when I’m there, and to flat out whisper to the chiro, asking him to help me put together a claim against the company where the "work injury" occured. Obviously, I’ll leave the Rolex at home. Don’t expect a benign report from that visit; I’m more biased than ever before and plan to push hard to stimulate fraud. Another point. Yes, I have some nice things. Is that somehow a problem for you chiros? The first year after starting my company I worked more than 80 hours a week, 30 of them in a restaurant to pay the bills; my only income. My entire life savings (and loans from family and friends, and maxed out credit cards, and overdraft protection) was on the line. Everything! My company was a classic case of entrepreneurism and risktaking. It is now very productive and making good money, and I damn well earned the benefits therefrom. What the hell sort of idiocy or hypocrisy (or greed? or envy? or malevolence? or stupidity? or mental gangrene?) does it take to criticize me because my business succeeded? And yes, It’s true that I had only two years of college and a low GPA, but did I mention that while in school I worked full time and also raised two younger siblings? SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM!
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**SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM! ellie … this is Usenet … you seem to have plenty of criticism of others … but appear unable to "take it" …
Response:
SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM!
It is indeed a shame how somone can make allegations about someone who is just trying to be objective. On the other hand, after careful consideration, I made a few appointments with a chiropractor this week. Without going through the boring details of my last year and the injuries I suffered in a wonderfully violent accident, I felt I couldn’t do anything to get worse. After three appointments my neck pain, which up until now over the course of a year was terrible, is GONE! I have been in physical therapy, have taken every drug you can imagine and I had no relief. The only thing that I find a problem with is that you are going in there without a problem… I don’t think you are a bad person for it, but I, for one, went in there with MAJOR problems and am absolutely thrilled with the results. Just wanted to drop in my two cents, I can’t wait for your final report. Regards, Adam — Before you buy.
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Yikes! Can I assume that the vet was not aware that you were using the meds on yourself? If not, that DVM must not value his license to practice medicine very much! BTW, what does the AKA, VAK after your name stand for? He isn’t and the horse gets one cup I grind 1/8 cup with jalepeno
peppers in a vitamix. not to tasty. my pain Doc an MD knows what i am doing I take nothing unless he knows and his philosophy is that if burying a toad at midnight helps do it. —- AKA=also known as. VAK is short for the vacancy(vakanci) in my skull LOL — John Basham AKA VAK Before you buy.
Response:
SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM!
SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM!
Thank you Ellen for your honesty and for having the courage to explore and express the truth that u see. May your company bring to you and your loved ones all the bounty that u have labored so hard for. I am about 64(in Dec) and was hurt seriously in an auto accident in 1993 and am on Social Security Disability. My purpose in comming to this forum is to hopefully find something I can do to recover enough to return to the work I love best(computers). I tried Chiropractic(156 visits over a 3 year period) as well as but not limited to Allopathic Care, Herbs,Horse medicine from a Veterinarian, Hot Soaks, Licensed Massage Therapy, Magnets,Physical Therapy, Diet, Exercise, Prayer, Meditation etc ad infintum. My daughter-in-law a Phd Bio/Chem research type gave me some stuff that probably will not be on the market for another 30 years and that combined with the medicated food my daughter’s ancient Appaloosa horse is given + Allopathic care(Coritisone/Quinine spinal injections, pain meds,( an undocumented use of three)+ an anti-inflamatory keep me going until I heal. Chiropractic care was discontinued upon the advice of the group treating me after they reviewed all the imaging that had been done at University Hospitals in NJ, Indiana and Nebraska and that was in 1995.(6 Chiros were in that group) In my opinion any "degree" is not a life-time vaccination against stupidity nor hateful behavior towards one fellows. I for one did get vaccinated against pnuemonia since about 40,000 people over the age of sixty die from that each year. I look to this forum for maybe a hint of something I can do to speed the healing process and as have 9 different Chiropractors told me it "ain’t" Chiropractic. My personal opinion is that Chiropractic is for people who feel pretty good, want to feel even better and can afford it. I can’t, but harbor no ill feelings towards Chiropractic, although I would not recommend it to a friend with a serious life threatening illness or injury. Last but not least, my Chiropractors told me that the Social Security Administrative Law Judges generally use Chiropractic Disability Reports for toilet paper. Disability was determined by objective medical evidence presented by MD’s DO’s and the testimony of Vocational Experts,but that was in 1995 and may no longer be true. — — John Basham AKA VAK Before you buy.
Response:
I thought that several adventurous people here would visit chiropractors in their area and post the results of their encounters. What I did NOT expect was to be the only one here willing to spend a few dollars trying HLE’s lovely fraudtest. It was a surprise to be accused variously of falsifying my reports, acting fraudulently with the chiropractors, lying about what occurred in the chiros’ offices, and even fabricating the visits. Don’t you understand that the actual visits were FAR more entertaining than this newsgroup is? In those two previous visits I was carefully objective in my dialogs. It would have been easy (I think) to stimulate ethical/professional transgressions by asking leading questions, etc. But I did not do that. In fact, I was deliberately reserved in those discussions because I did not wish to be accused of causing the problems which I then reported. That won’t be true tomorrow: my LAST chiropractor visit! I’ll go to what looks from the outside like a workmen’s comp factory. My new plan is to really "hurt" when I’m there, and to flat out whisper to the chiro, asking him to help me put together a claim against the company where the "work injury" occured. Obviously, I’ll leave the Rolex at home. Don’t expect a benign report from that visit; I’m more biased than ever before and plan to push hard to stimulate fraud. Another point. Yes, I have some nice things. Is that somehow a problem for you chiros? The first year after starting my company I worked more than 80 hours a week, 30 of them in a restaurant to pay the bills; my only income. My entire life savings (and loans from family and friends, and maxed out credit cards, and overdraft protection) was on the line. Everything! My company was a classic case of entrepreneurism and risktaking. It is now very productive and making good money, and I damn well earned the benefits therefrom. What the hell sort of idiocy or hypocrisy (or greed? or envy? or malevolence? or stupidity? or mental gangrene?) does it take to criticize me because my business succeeded? And yes, It’s true that I had only two years of college and a low GPA, but did I mention that while in school I worked full time and also raised two younger siblings? SHAME ON YOU and DAMN YOUR CRITICISM!
Response:
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Rachelle ps – and so immature.