Question:
But we are not talking about knifes or pesticides, hm? Of course words can hurt – but the words of a master are not meant to hurt anything else except of your ego. And wise words are also not meant to hurt. You are comparing apples with pears – as we say in german.
I’m I? A word carries an idea, a thought. And a thought lies behind every action. That way a word can and does cause action. I’m sure you are familiar with great german philosopher Nietzche. Take his idea of uebermensch, interpret it wrongly, develop a nacism and you’ll get a few million dead people. What is a little knife compare to that? Nobody’s blaming Nietzche for what happened. But if he knew what will people make out of his thoughts, do you think that he would be thinking and writing the same way? Do you thing he would have slept at night? There’s a saying: a way to hell is covered with good intentions. I still am not convinced that anybody who is able to handle a computer, find the alt.yoga newsgroup in the usenet and read this quote will use it seriously as a legitimation to drink himself to dead " but Osho said that’s the way to enlightment! " 
This thing with a booze was just an extreme example, i don think that it can happen. Let me give you another example. A boss pisses you off. You just got from an Osho’s shouting therapy lesson. There you heard that people are too suppresed and that they should learn how to express their emotions. A natural feeling says that you should tell him to shove it up his…Next thing u’re waiting in an unemployment line, cursing your path of the natural flow. U were fighting against your inner complexes and now u got a problem with your daily meal. Do you think there’s no way such intepretation could happen? Oh, many things have changed! The man – woman relationship has changed. The attitude towards sexual issues has changed. 40 years ago it was a crime to be homosexual – now one of the biggest party in my town is the "Christopher Street Day"-Parade and just a view days ago for the first time in history a german politician outed himself publicly to be homosexual. 30 years ago other spiritual groups than the christian churches have been banned – now they are wellcomned. And many things more have changed, are changing, and will change …
You are talking about social changes. In antique homosexualitiy was normal. Then one paradigm replaced the other. Social patterns and dogmas were rotating and changing througout human history. But the foundation, the human mind is still the same. Do you know what the base of today’s enviromentalism is? The same old human instict of preservation of the species. We’re afraid we will poison ourseleves. In western world a paradigm of individuality is praised. If I let you live your life as u want, than u have to let me do the same. The same old ego. But people are still miserable. Shrinks are making more and more bucks. Sucide rates gettin higher, wars, crimes, blah, blah. Same old. (don’t get me wrong, I’m all for democracy, just tellin’ like it is) Well, but you can practice< Yoga. You don’t just only have to read about it. And nobody can master Yoga for you – you’ll have to do it yourself. A Master only may be a source of inspiration and a rolemodell, but the dicipline and responsibility must be yours. Of course. To me he is a Master-teacher. Teachers are still needed! I agree in that.
When I say Master, I mean an source of information present in one person. It’s important that he/she achived the goal that u’re following. If your goal is enlightment than he/she has to be enlightened. Otherwise it’s one blind person leading another. In yoga you can learn some techniques from instructors or even books, but for that final goal the Master is required. Yoga sutra says ‘moksa mulam guru kripa’, liberation comes from mercy of the Master. But of course it’s you who has to follow his words, to be a disciple! Osho himself rejected old master-disciple tradition in the beginning , but later glorified the meaning of the Master. I don’t know about that.
I listened to his lecture, where he explained how to approach a guru. He never had a guru himself, but was accepting disciples. No humor – no compassion. He prooves that! :-)
I heard a saying: better a cheerful sinner, than a moody saint. 
Sat Nam + Hari Om Taras
Response:
But we are not talking about knifes or pesticides, hm? Of course words can hurt – but the words of a master are not meant to hurt anything else except of your ego. And wise words are also not meant to hurt. You are comparing apples with pears – as we say in german. I’m I? A word carries an idea, a thought. And a thought lies behind every action. That way a word can and does cause action.
Yes, hopefully it does. But why thinking that this quote is harmful than instead of healing? I’m sure you are familiar with great german philosopher Nietzche. Take his idea of uebermensch, interpret it wrongly, develop a nacism and you’ll get a few million dead people. What is a little knife compare to that? Nobody’s blaming Nietzche for what happened. But if he knew what will people make out of his thoughts, do you think that he would be thinking and writing the same way? Do you thing he would have slept at night? There’s a saying: a way to hell is covered with good intentions.
Hm, yes – I just spoke with a collegue about this today – ho does familytherapy – and the conflict happening in israel can be watched / interpreted like a familyconflict. 2 ppl (palestinian- / israeli – gouvernment) do it all just for the sake of a third person (in the family it is often the child / in the isreal conflict it is the ppl of the countrys). This is what your saying is about – right? But coming back to Nietzsche: here again it is in the responsibility of the ppl who missused Nietzsches ideas for their reasons – not Nietzsche himself. (By the way there is a very good book with talks by Osho about Nietzsches "Thus spoke Zharatustra".) And the Nazis haven’t came up because of Nietzsches philosophy ) Nietzsche would never have been able to stop the Nazis if he wouldn’t write what he wrote. If there wouldn’t have been a Nietzsche they would have missused something else for their issues. They have missused a whole nation! Many popular artists have been missused too – all have been missused by the Nazis and the hindu sun-wheel – shastrika – was their symbol and it is until now connected in the ppls minds with the nazis. Maybe the Hindus wouldn’t have invented the shastrika when the would have knew what it is used for … ? No, talking or communicating itself allways includes the seed of missunderstanding. But you cannot hold back truth in order to keep it not-missunderstood because of that. If there is nobody who knows the truth anymore it cannot be miss-understood because it cannot be understood at all. But if the truth is shared as wide and public as possible – there is a great chance that it can be understood by many, at the risk of beeing missunderstood – yes, but also with the chance to be understood by many – and only this way the word can achieve the action it once was spoken out to inspire. A non shared wisedom is a dead wisedom – it’s only collected knowledge. : "Wisedom is not the collected knowledge, but the experience of the ever changing live." – unfortunately again a qote by Osho … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I still am not convinced that anybody who is able to handle a computer, find the alt.yoga newsgroup in the usenet and read this quote will use it seriously as a legitimation to drink himself to dead " but Osho said that’s the way to enlightment! " This thing with a booze was just an extreme example, i don think that it can happen. Let me give you another example. A boss pisses you off. You just got from an Osho’s shouting therapy lesson. There you heard that people are too suppresed and that they should learn how to express their emotions. A natural feeling says that you should tell him to shove it up his…Next thing u’re waiting in an unemployment line, cursing your path of the natural flow. U were fighting against your inner complexes and now u got a problem with your daily meal. Do you think there’s no way such intepretation could happen?
That’s an interesting idea – but I doupt that. Ppl who go to groups like this do it order to express their "negative" emotions in this certain protected surroundings. I myself attended more than one time an cathartic group like that and it was allways absolutely clear that this is a work at my own person and not at my boss. Does this still has to do with the discussed quote? We can discuss work at cathartic groups then .. have you ever been in one? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, many things have changed! The man – woman relationship has changed. The attitude towards sexual issues has changed. 40 years ago it was a crime to be homosexual – now one of the biggest party in my town is the "Christopher Street Day"-Parade and just a view days ago for the first time in history a german politician outed himself publicly to be homosexual. 30 years ago other spiritual groups than the christian churches have been banned – now they are wellcomned. And many things more have changed, are changing, and will change … You are talking about social changes. In antique homosexualitiy was normal. Then one paradigm replaced the other. Social patterns and dogmas were rotating and changing througout human history. But the foundation, the human mind is still the same. Do you know what the base of today’s enviromentalism is? The same old human instict of preservation of the species. We’re afraid we will poison ourseleves. In western world a paradigm of individuality is praised. If I let you live your life as u want, than u have to let me do the same. The same old ego. But people are still miserable. Shrinks are making more and more bucks. Sucide rates gettin higher, wars, crimes, blah, blah. Same old. (don’t get me wrong, I’m all for democracy, just tellin’ like it is)
You say that it is just dogmas and patterns rotating that give the image of changes happen and that the human mind didn’t have changed since the antique (or longer ago) and that ppl do have the same egoism and are still miserable? I don’t agree I’m living here in Germany and 12 years ago our country has been reunited – before that it has been two different countrys and two different systems. Now after 12 years most of the material scarfs of over 40 years of communist "miss-managment" are wiped away in east germany – but the ppl there are still of a totally different mood / attitudde than we do experience here in the west. It’s fascinating to see how just 40 years of different society can let the mentality of ppl develope in totally different directions. I often have been in eastern germany since these days and it allways have been depressing to me. The whole country / the environment / the ppl radiates depression and sickness. (there is a lot more to report – but that would be OT now here) I believe that changes can happen – and they can happen faster than we may think. We may not realize them that much because we are living with the changes – but they are happening. And if I wouldn’t believe that I wouldn’t be able to be Yogateacher. If we don’t beliefe in and experience the evolutionary force – why do practice Yoga? again Osho: "Wisedom is not the collected knowledge, but the experience of the ever changing live." Maybe in the antique times have been better in some kind. But why no believing that it can be better again? And thinking of tolerance as just a social pattern that is not connected with the human mind ….? No, that is not my experience. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, but you can practice< Yoga. You don’t just only have to read about it. And nobody can master Yoga for you – you’ll have to do it yourself. A Master only may be a source of inspiration and a rolemodell, but the dicipline and responsibility must be yours. Of course. To me he is a Master-teacher. Teachers are still needed! I agree in that. When I say Master, I mean an source of information present in one person. It’s important that he/she achived the goal that u’re following. If your goal is enlightment than he/she has to be enlightened. Otherwise it’s one blind person leading another. In yoga you can learn some techniques from instructors or even books, but for that final goal the Master is required. Yoga sutra says ‘moksa mulam guru kripa’, liberation comes from mercy of the Master.
Well, ok. ‘This’ special ‘Master’, you are talking about, to me is God. But of course it’s you who has to follow his words, to be a disciple! Osho himself rejected old master-disciple tradition in the beginning , but later glorified the meaning of the Master. I don’t know about that. I listened to his lecture, where he explained how to approach a guru. He never had a guru himself, but was accepting disciples.
Well, he just skiped that step, I guess. Maybe at a certain evolutionary level you can do that ;-) No humor – no compassion. He prooves that! :-) I heard a saying: better a cheerful sinner, than a moody saint.
Yep Sat Nam + Hari Om Taras
Wahe Guru! Hari Har Singh
Response:
There is to me nothing that should be keept closed up. There is especially no wisedom that shouldn’t be shared!
That kind of thinking is very irresponsible. You can give a knife to a cook and he’ll make u a meal, or you can give it to a mad man and he’ll hurt himself, you or others. In such case, if you did it knowingly, u ARE responsible, not only moraly but also legaly.You say: "Let’s give knifes to all of them, we don’t care what they’ll do with them". Because words can hurt people. Would you give a bottle of pesticide to your two years old child and explain to him that it’s very useful in your garden? I think that the situation dramatically has changed in the past 30 years. Ppl are ready to know now. My Yoga-Master often says that the age of the masters is gone. No more "Tell me, I want to know" instead "I can tell you because I know". Ppl will become Masters on their own.
Are u sure things changed so much? What has actually change? Besides some technical advances the things are still more or less the same. You can’t never be a Master on your own. Books can never teach you what the Master can. Obvoiusly you have the Master, do you really think there can be a replacement for him/her? Do you really think you can do it on your own? Osho himself rejected old master-disciple tradition in the beginning , but later glorified the meaning of the Master. Do you think Jesus would have said nothing when he would had just an idea what some ppl do with his teachings?
If he had at least 1/10 of compassion in him that they say, then I’m sure that he would be more careful with his words. I don’t think nobody really knows what Jesus has thought. Some old churches say that he taught reincarnation and vegetarianism. Religions adopted and changed the teachings of their masters according to their needs. If all Buddha’s words were actually his, he would have to talk for a hundred years continuosly. The Dalai Lama once asked, in an TV-interview I saw, what he thinks of the ppl who worship him as a living God. He giggled and said that these ppl are stupid <giggle and that he is only a simple monk. But that is their fault, not his. <giggle
I’ve seen at least 5 interviews with Dalai Lama and on the all of them that question came up. The answer was also the same, giggle and ‘I’m just a simple monk’. But i’ve never heard him say that these people are stupid. Hari Om Taras
Response:
There is to me nothing that should be keept closed up. There is especially no wisedom that shouldn’t be shared! That kind of thinking is very irresponsible. You can give a knife to a cook and he’ll make u a meal, or you can give it to a mad man and he’ll hurt himself, you or others. In such case, if you did it knowingly, u ARE responsible, not only moraly but also legaly.You say: "Let’s give knifes to all of them, we don’t care what they’ll do with them". Because words can hurt people. Would you give a bottle of pesticide to your two years old child and explain to him that it’s very useful in your garden?
But we are not talking about knifes or pesticides, hm? Of course words can hurt – but the words of a master are not meant to hurt anything else except of your ego. And wise words are also not meant to hurt. You are comparing apples with pears – as we say in german. I still am not convinced that anybody who is able to handle a computer, find the alt.yoga newsgroup in the usenet and read this quote will use it seriously as a legitimation to drink himself to dead " but Osho said that’s the way to enlightment! " I think that the situation dramatically has changed in the past 30 years. Ppl are ready to know now. My Yoga-Master often says that the age of the masters is gone. No more "Tell me, I want to know" instead "I can tell you because I know". Ppl will become Masters on their own. Are u sure things changed so much? What has actually change? Besides some technical advances the things are still more or less the same.
Oh, many things have changed! If I recall the political, social and spiritual situation in europe 60 years ago – or even 30 years ago! Politics have changed – I saw an TV-talkshow record these days from 1976 – and they seriously asked there "Why do we need to protect the environment? It worked all fine the last view hundred years wiithout that .." Now, nobody anymore (except Mr. Bush …) doupt that it is essential to protect the environment. The man – woman relationship has changed. The attitude towards sexual issues has changed. 40 years ago it was a crime to be homosexual – now one of the biggest party in my town is the "Christopher Street Day"-Parade and just a view days ago for the first time in history a german politician outed himself publicly to be homosexual. 30 years ago other spiritual groups than the christian churches have been banned – now they are wellcomned. And many things more have changed, are changing, and will change … You can’t never be a Master on your own.
But you have to. You cant hand the responsibility for that to somebody else. Nobody can Master you except you. Books can never teach you what the Master can.
Well, but you can practice< Yoga. You don’t just only have to read about it. And nobody can master Yoga for you – you’ll have to do it yourself. A Master only may be a source of inspiration and a rolemodell, but the dicipline and responsibility must be yours. Obvoiusly you have the Master, do you really think there can be a replacement for him/her?
Of course. To me he is a Master-teacher. Teachers are still needed! I agree in that. Do you really think you can do it on your own?
Well, I have to! Who else would do it for me?? I’m a lazy guy – tell me somebody that I can hand over that work that I have to do and I’ll be fine! Osho himself rejected old master-disciple tradition in the beginning , but later glorified the meaning of the Master.
I don’t know about that. Do you think Jesus would have said nothing when he would had just an idea what some ppl do with his teachings? If he had at least 1/10 of compassion in him that they say, then I’m sure that he would be more careful with his words. I don’t think nobody really knows what Jesus has thought. Some old churches say that he taught reincarnation and vegetarianism. Religions adopted and changed the teachings of their masters according to their needs. If all Buddha’s words were actually his, he would have to talk for a hundred years continuosly.
I recall that I read an Osho quote that says something like that one should not beliefe in words – because they are only a bridge to the truth – they are not truth itself. So it is important what happens within you while you read these words, if they inspire you. If they don’t – they have no value in themself, they are just a tool – a bridge. The Dalai Lama once asked, in an TV-interview I saw, what he thinks of the ppl who worship him as a living God. He giggled and said that these ppl are stupid <giggle and that he is only a simple monk. But that is their fault, not his. <giggle I’ve seen at least 5 interviews with Dalai Lama and on the all of them that question came up. The answer was also the same, giggle and ‘I’m just a simple monk’. But i’ve never heard him say that these people are stupid.
It was an interview with an german professor held in Dharmsalam. This guy was very serious, stiff and the Dalai Lama was relaxed and made jokes. I recall that very well because I was surprised to hear him say that – but he said it in a funny way No humor – no compassion. He prooves that! :-) Hari Om + Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
Response:
It was a TV documentary about cults. I don’t know if all information on this show were true. Maybe sombody wanted to portrait Osho’s movement as a deadly cult. I did however find a site about Osho’s private army. http://www.evergreen.edu/users6/stagav08/Project2.htm
Another good reason not to believe what you see in TV perhaps? There was no doubt that sister Sheila (who was given charge of the Oregon Ranch) was insecure and due to excesses. She built up only a moderate sized security force (and yes there was certainly a need for security as the locals were always threatening to come out and run the Osho people out). All the people that I knew from the ranch, none ever fired a weapon in their life, nor we they recruited to do so. Just to say given the phobic media barrage against eastern Cults in the US during the eighties, even I had this "image" of "the ranch" until I moved to a rural conference and retreat center in rural Northern California, who had thirty some odd Osho refugees in resident. I got to know most of these people (some quite well) over many years, and I found them exceptionally open, sensitive, gentle, honest, happy, and self empowered. Since then I have met many more, and I am impressed by most of them. When I compare the story that they give with the standard media story, the disparities are like day and night. Just sharing the other side. Namaste!
Response:
Thanks for the report. It’s funny how these rumors spread. Charges were made about failure to pay taxes and general financial improprieties. There were no armed conflicts unless you count the few local drunks who came out to confront the commune, but even there no guns went off. Simply put, Osho scared the heck out the local Oregonians, breaking taboo where ever they went, and the locals freaked. The feds waited until Osho was at the commune and raided it, arresting Osho and refusing bond. They even refused to charge him, keeping him prisoner incommunicado for over a week until they got him to sign over the whole ranch to the government in turn for his life. Then, he was allowed to go back to India, but his health never recovered (he claimed until his death that they poisoned him). I personally know at least 30 former Osho sunnyasins from Oregon, none of them heard of any violence.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taras, I am not aware of any armed conflict or casualties regarding Osho’s group. Please let me know your sources or references. Thank you. It was a documentary series about cults, that i’ve seen a few years ago (i can’t remember the exact title). It was about Osho’s movement, which was at that time known as Rajneeshism. As I recall, the main problem was a disciple of Rajneesh, who took control in her hands. The ashram in US had a problem with local authorities. This disciple organized a private army which ended up in a some kind of conflict with local police. After this incident Osho was expelled from US and the rebel disciple escaped, but was arrested later and charged of murder.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, that is a problem. Because everything can be miss-understood. Yes, everything can be miss-understood. But there are some statements that are especially delicate. There are many so called ‘teachings’ which have caused lot of problems, for example islamic concept of jihad-holy war. Some say that represent inner struggle, but in the history many unnesessary wars started because of it. At least it was to some ppl possible to even miss-understand this silence. It seems so. After that his movement fell into some ugly troubles. What can you do? At least use common sense. One has to consider to whome is talking to. The statment from your tip of the day would be appropriate in a small group of advanced disciples and shouln’t be said in public.
I don’t agree Taras. There is to me nothing that should be keept closed up. There is especially no wisedom that shouldn’t be shared! I don’t call myself a advanced diciple – I’m absolutely not – I’m a very lazy person practicing a little bit Yoga. I know a lot of ppl that are much more advanced, practice much more Yoga and / or meditation and would do understand this sentence too. Many of them normal ppl working in an office or so. I think that the situation dramatically has changed in the past 30 years. Ppl are ready to know now. My Yoga-Master often says that the age of the masters is gone. No more "Tell me, I want to know" instead "I can tell you because I know". Ppl will become Masters on their own. I recall that Osho had daily talks to 6000 to 10.000 diciples. He was debating with religious leaders in india about philosophy and religion in front of 10thousands of ppl on public places in india long before he became the "sex-guru". He was a professor for philosophy at an university. His talks are translated into many languages. I doubt that he can or even wanted to care about some ppl who may read what he said and do NOT understand him. Do you think Jesus would have said nothing when he would had just an idea what some ppl do with his teachings? I doupt that. And Jesus was heavily missunderstood in his living days too. No, there is nothing about spirituality that should be kept secret. It must be taught openly and spread weherever possible so that it can evaluated by the ppl through experience. At least it is in my responsibility if I do under- or missunder-stand something. And it is totaly in my responsibility if I use something for inspiration or for missuse of my existence. Osho or anybody else is not to blame for my missunderstandings. The Dalai Lama once asked, in an TV-interview I saw, what he thinks of the ppl who worship him as a living God. He giggled and said that these ppl are stupid <giggle and that he is only a simple monk. But that is their fault, not his. <giggle Difficult situation … even for a Master! Bare in mind what "enlightened" master means. Yoga teaches that nirvikalpa samadhi brings threefold insight: past, present and future! That means that a true guru should have an ability to predict the future at least to some degree. Or at least he/she should be able to predict consequences of his/her own actions.
Hm, maybe this is a statement from my small unenlightend point of view. Maybe to them this all is indeed just a big game – easy to handle and totally relaxed. But if not, than he should at least be able to use his common sense and posess an fairly normal dose of inteligence.
Well, that he wasn’t intelligent nobody would state I guess Otherwise what kind of master is he/she?
Good question! Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
Response:
Now, that is a problem. Because everything can be miss-understood.
Yes, everything can be miss-understood. But there are some statements that are especially delicate. There are many so called ‘teachings’ which have caused lot of problems, for example islamic concept of jihad-holy war. Some say that represent inner struggle, but in the history many unnesessary wars started because of it. At least it was to some ppl possible to even miss-understand this silence.
It seems so. After that his movement fell into some ugly troubles. What can you do?
At least use common sense. One has to consider to whome is talking to. The statment from your tip of the day would be appropriate in a small group of advanced disciples and shouln’t be said in public. Difficult situation … even for a Master!
Bare in mind what "enlightened" master means. Yoga teaches that nirvikalpa samadhi brings threefold insight: past, present and future! That means that a true guru should have an ability to predict the future at least to some degree. Or at least he/she should be able to predict consequences of his/her own actions. But if not, than he should at least be able to use his common sense and posess an fairly normal dose of inteligence. Otherwise what kind of master is he/she?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About the quote: I know that there are allways more than 1 way to understand what somebody says. I understood that he referrenced to something we would call a spiritual experience or a Kundalini experience. That something feels good for you blissful, peaceful, spontaneous, happening on its own accord – that’s to me also the description of the experience of beeing or going with your own rythm, your beeing. This can be indeed everything, not only kneeling in the church and praying to God As a yogi you are aware of negative impacts of the alcohol on the body and mind. It seems you also have theoretical and practical knowledge about yoga philosophy. The problem is that many people, especially in the west, don’t have that spritual knowledge. What kind of interpretation would they make out of these words? Yoga is a hard way to conquer suffering. Drugs are the easy way. For somebody who had a difficult life these words can be an excuse for choosing the easy way.
I never made experiences with alcohol as a drug. But when I hear the reports about alcohol addicts (I don’t want to start another marihuana discussion here! , how they and their familys suffer I cannot imagine it as the "easy way". This is in my country common knowledge to most of the ppl – regardless if they are practicing Yoga or not most of them know that beeing an alcohol addict is NOT an easy way. Even the addicts know that. The problem is that many don’t think of themselves as beeing an addict … but that is another topic. I know, what you mean with "easy" – that it is easier to numb your nerves so that they are insensitive to pain instead of going through the pain with the only aid of your breath. But at least I think we both agree that it is not the "easier way". Deeshan send me quote today that fits in this: "The things we are afraid of seem to be like high mountains to climb. When we have gone through them they were in fact very small hills. Tricky mind." — Unknown source I’m sure that Osho had in mind the same interpretation as you. But as an enlightened master he should also predict that there are people who will take it the wrong way.
Now, that is a problem. Because everything can be miss-understood. Maybe that was also a reason that he choose a 5years long period of silence and saying nothing. Because when you say nothing there is also nothing to miss-understood. At least it was to some ppl possible to even miss-understand this silence. What can you do? Difficult situation … even for a Master! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – People killed? That is a new information I didn’t knew about. It was a TV documentary about cults. I don’t know if all information on this show were true. Maybe sombody wanted to portrait Osho’s movement as a deadly cult. I did however find a site about Osho’s private army. http://www.evergreen.edu/users6/stagav08/Project2.htm Oridinary person can’t comprehend deeds of enlightened master. I’m not so shure about that … but maybe that’s right. A master and a disciple went along the river and they saw a drowning child screaming for help. Master said: "Just ignore him and keep walking!" A child drowned and a dicipled asked: "How could you just leave him die?" The master said: "If that child had survive, he would become ruthless king and would excecute thousands innocent people. We just saved their lives."
Interesting and maybe true. But I intuitively dislike the message of this story. It is also not what Osho told his diciples. He allways encouraged them to not simply believe what he said, to check if it is true. But on the same time he also asked them to surrender in him – paradox, hm? I think there is no general sollution – the master / diciple relationship is a very private, unique and individual relationship and nothing static but growing and constantly changing. Ever changing as every relationship. Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
Response:
About the quote: I know that there are allways more than 1 way to understand what somebody says. I understood that he referrenced to something we would call a spiritual experience or a Kundalini experience. That something feels good for you blissful, peaceful, spontaneous, happening on its own accord – that’s to me also the description of the experience of beeing or going with your own rythm, your beeing. This can be indeed everything, not only kneeling in the church and praying to God
As a yogi you are aware of negative impacts of the alcohol on the body and mind. It seems you also have theoretical and practical knowledge about yoga philosophy. The problem is that many people, especially in the west, don’t have that spritual knowledge. What kind of interpretation would they make out of these words? Yoga is a hard way to conquer suffering. Drugs are the easy way. For somebody who had a difficult life these words can be an excuse for choosing the easy way. I’m sure that Osho had in mind the same interpretation as you. But as an enlightened master he should also predict that there are people who will take it the wrong way. People killed? That is a new information I didn’t knew about.
It was a TV documentary about cults. I don’t know if all information on this show were true. Maybe sombody wanted to portrait Osho’s movement as a deadly cult. I did however find a site about Osho’s private army. http://www.evergreen.edu/users6/stagav08/Project2.htm Oridinary person can’t comprehend deeds of enlightened master. I’m not so shure about that … but maybe that’s right.
A master and a disciple went along the river and they saw a drowning child screaming for help. Master said: "Just ignore him and keep walking!" A child drowned and a dicipled asked: "How could you just leave him die?" The master said: "If that child had survive, he would become ruthless king and would excecute thousands innocent people. We just saved their lives."
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taras, I am not aware of any armed conflict or casualties regarding Osho’s group. Please let me know your sources or references. Thank you. It was a documentary series about cults, that i’ve seen a few years ago (i can’t remember the exact title). It was about Osho’s movement, which was at that time known as Rajneeshism. As I recall, the main problem was a disciple of Rajneesh, who took control in her hands. The ashram in US had a problem with local authorities. This disciple organized a private army which ended up in a some kind of conflict with local police. After this incident Osho was expelled from US and the rebel disciple escaped, but was arrested later and charged of murder.
As far as I know not for murder. The diciples name is Ma Sheela, she was for 5 years Bhagwahns closest diciple / secretary during his silence period. She has an old-peoples home in switzerland now. Hari Har Singh
Response:
Taras, I am not aware of any armed conflict or casualties regarding Osho’s group. Please let me know your sources or references. Thank you.
It was a documentary series about cults, that i’ve seen a few years ago (i can’t remember the exact title). It was about Osho’s movement, which was at that time known as Rajneeshism. As I recall, the main problem was a disciple of Rajneesh, who took control in her hands. The ashram in US had a problem with local authorities. This disciple organized a private army which ended up in a some kind of conflict with local police. After this incident Osho was expelled from US and the rebel disciple escaped, but was arrested later and charged of murder.
Response:
Be careful, you may offend Mr. Singh. If you do, he will put you on the "ignore corner", you may read your posts but others won’t, and worse, no beer there:^) I hope he isn’t offended.
Of course I’m not I’m not an Sanyassin – and if I would be I allso would agree if somebody would call Osho a crazy one and a fraud. He was so many things – this he was definetely too! By the way: He collected about 60 – 90 Rolls Royce as far as I know… He had the largest Rolls Royce collection a private person ever had. And all of them have been sould with profit to wealthy us-american sanyassins About the quote: I know that there are allways more than 1 way to understand what somebody says. I didn’t understood Oshos quote that way that beeing an alcoholic because you "enjoy" it is a path – allthough it can be said, that if you are an alcoholic that is definetely the path you have choosen to walk! I understood that he referrenced to something we would call a spiritual experience or a Kundalini experience. That something feels good for you blissful, peaceful, spontaneous, happening on its own accord – that’s to me also the description of the experience of beeing or going with your own rythm, your beeing. This can be indeed everything, not only kneeling in the church and praying to God I understood this quote as bringing spirituality into the daily life. I don’t think he would kick me or anyone else out just because he/she doesn’t 100% agree with him, as long it is done polite. (btw is this what happened to Danijel Turina?)
I didn’t kick anybody. I simply don’t read their postings anymore. But that’s nothing unusual. There is a lot of stuff I don’t read. I don’t have the time and space to study all postings – so I have to select. And all the stupid, senseless, offensive, trollish, much to argumentive etc. stuff I don’t have t read. That’s called Ahimsa – control of the senses. :-) Difficult to practice on the usenet, but I try to do my very best – for me. I’m not an expert on Osho’s teachings, I’ve read some parts of his books (which were quite interesting) and i’ve seen a documentary about him and his movement. His ’sannyasins’ seemed to enjoy themselves very much. Osho himself managed to collect a few dozen Rollce Royses. He said he is a man of simple taste, he likes the best! I don’t recall completely how the show ended, but i know it involved an armed conflict between his private army and government forces with few causalties.
People killed? That is a new information I didn’t knew about. I can tell you that they have now a very large comune in pune, a "Meditation Resort" (they call it "Club Med" – and they are still expanding (want to build a large5 star hotel there). Since the late eighties they are not anymore required to wear read / maroon cloths so you cannot identify them on the streets anymore. But there are still a lot of them around, the group is still expanding as far as I’m informed. More informations can be found on www.osho.org Oridinary person can’t comprehend deeds of enlightened master.
I’m not so shure about that … but maybe that’s right. On the other hand there are many frauds around. One is free to form his/her opinion. But one thing is a fact: Osho’s path transcends the concept of ‘tapas’
Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
Response:
Be careful, you may offend Mr. Singh. If you do, he will put you on the "ignore corner", you may read your posts but others won’t, and worse, no beer there:^) I hope he isn’t offended. I don’t think he would kick me or anyone else out just because he/she doesn’t 100% agree with him, as long it is done polite. (btw is this what happened to Danijel Turina?)
Yes, I believe so. I’m not an expert on Osho’s teachings, I’ve read some parts of his books (which were quite interesting) and i’ve seen a documentary about him and his movement. His ’sannyasins’ seemed to enjoy themselves very much. Osho himself managed to collect a few dozen Rollce Royses. He said he is a man of simple taste, he likes the best! I don’t recall completely how the show ended, but i know it involved an armed conflict between his private army and government forces with few causalties.
Instead of queting the vrittis, Rajnessh "flew" with them. This was his approach, it is neither right nor wrong. If he was able to successfully effect constructive life changes in his disciples then it is cool. Oridinary person can’t comprehend deeds of enlightened master. On the other hand there are many frauds around. One is free to form his/her opinion. But one thing is a fact: Osho’s path transcends the concept of ‘tapas’
I once posted something in alt.yoga that related to this, here I have reproduced it for you: Anyone who have read and understood Paramhansa Yogananda’s autobiography would naturally want to learn and practice Kriya Yoga. Not because of direct transmission from Mahavatar Babaji, orthodox Lahiri-ism, kechari mudra, prolonged absorption or other subtleties that seems to be of issue today, but because of Yoganandaji’s life, a peaceful, joyful, affluent and complete life. Kriya Yoga means "applied oneness" from the Sanskrit kri "to do" and yuj "to yoke". It is the reestablishment of one’s connection with life’s wholeness. When you circulate the life force via the six psychoenergetic centers in the spine, psycho-emotional barriers to the ascent of the coiled-up spinal energy are gradually washed off. This is because the vrittis ceases due to the frictionless flow of conscious awareness. When and if this primal force ever goes up, it will coerce the soul essence in the anahata padma to rise up to the medullary center. When this happens one will be able to penetrate the florescent white light in the center of the indigo orb [existing at the juncture of the spine and skull] reflected in the kutashta. The result will be an explosion of all self-generated limitations, and one will find himself as both nirguna and saguna. Everything in life comes from Parabrahm or God the Father, it is due to his will that this material world is existent. The chair where you are sitting appears to be solid because it is vibrating in enormous speed. Vibration is the manifested potency of the will of God. When you experience oneness you will behold everything as they truly are — Light. The light that we see is not real Light, for real Light exposes everything as they truly are. All the things that separates us is gone, "us" is perceived as "Thou" which is "I am". Aum is heard. Aum (pronounced "owm") is the sound generated by the perpetual movement that animates the universe. This is accompanied by an indescribable joyful feeling. I myself, having experienced it, cannot believe that it is possible. It is inconceivable. But it can be attained by practice of the first pranayama, extended meditation, and a life of virtue. The accessory practices are not as important, but are also somewhat useful. Spiritual evolution varies, so one cannot really make generalizations. This experience does not usually come during practice, it can come anytime, even when at work. The central principle involved in the successful (result generating) practice is, in my humble experience, surrender. Others speak about doing it with "purposeful intention", I disagree. There should be no expectation as to the outcome whatsoever, expectations agitate the mind and encourages fluctuations. Real Kriya Yoga experience cannot occur in this way. Everyone who have ascended to relevant heights in their sadhana have learned the spiritual virtue of submission. Not submission to another human being, for this will only result to fanaticism and manipulation, but submission to one’s true Self, portions of which are revealed during the practice of deep meditation. The bliss that is felt is distinct from ordinary human emotions. One doesn’t just feel it but sort of becomes it … for a time. Imagine a mirror fully covered with some sticky moisture. When faced against the sun, it can only reflect a muddled light image. This is the state of the uninitiated. Now, imagine that this very same mirror has been forcefully wiped a bit by a clean cloth. The portion that has been cleansed will clearly reflect the light of the sun. This is the state of the newly initiated sadhaka. Again, imagine the mirror being wiped up to the middle, revealing a crystal clear half. The light of the sun reflected will be very bright. This is the state of the advanced initiate who is very faithful in his sadhana, and the fruits of his practice begin to show in his everyday affairs. If you remove almost all the sticky moisture off the mirror, leaving only around five percent muddled, then it appears as if it is perfectly reflecting the light of the sun. Because of the glare one tends to withdraw the scrutinizing look and assumes that the mirror is fully reflective. This is the state of the one who attains sabikalpa samadhi, one who have experienced God but is not yet fully unified with Him. If the mirror is totally rid of its mist then looking at it and looking straight at the sun will have no difference. This is the avataric state, or the descent of divinity into flesh, Brahman-Atman. To attain to this level is the power, purpose and meaning of Kriya Yoga, "Sam’kriyayog yogo ityukto jiva’tma ‘Parama’tmanah" Aum, peace, Amen! Brahman-Atmananda
Response:
Taras, I am not aware of any armed conflict or casualties regarding Osho’s group. Please let me know your sources or references. Thank you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not an expert on Osho’s teachings, I’ve read some parts of his books (which were quite interesting) and i’ve seen a documentary about him and his movement. His ’sannyasins’ seemed to enjoy themselves very much. Osho himself managed to collect a few dozen Rollce Royses. He said he is a man of simple taste, he likes the best! I don’t recall completely how the show ended, but i know it involved an armed conflict between his private army and government forces with few causalties. Oridinary person can’t comprehend deeds of enlightened master. On the other hand there are many frauds around. One is free to form his/her opinion. But one thing is a fact: Osho’s path transcends the concept of ‘tapas’
Response:
Thank you Taras. I wanted just to emphasize that release of the samskaras, the cessation of the vrttis, and the removal of the kleshas (negative emotional afflictions), removes the dukha (pain), thus it feels good and is the true desire of the heart (once we are able to discern the difference) which indeed as you say is the result of some success. Thus it seems to me that your practice should be leading you somewhat toward this inner realization and wisdom. Here one feels truly happy and this shines forth in all our relations. Hari Om Tat Sat.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yes, there is "real" bliss and "REAL" bliss This is valuable to discern. The former is a release from an oppression , a freedom rom –short and temporary and bringing lasting happiness. It is "normally" a neurotic compensation.adaptation for the craving that is brought about from separation from the Self, is it not? It can make things worse (as being lost in our lust, greed, and pursuit of lasting happiness in endless sublimation, or it can be harmless/neutral if we indulge without attachment or illusion. Sadhana is hindered when we are afraid of these desires, when we build up tension and stress around them, try to repress them, go into denial, or pretend that they do not exist. Yes, the old habitual ways of dealing with "discomfort" may arise (vasanas) but to recognize them as they are and to not become seduced nor attached to acting them out produces a certain amount of liberation and energy. I agree. That is a real ‘tapas’. Still, it’s very hard to practice it. As I understand Osho’s teaching, it goes in totally different direction. ‘Whatever feels good, it is your path?’. I did that for 25 years and i didn’t get far. How many beers can one drink before he ends up in Betty Ford? Yes, exactly and this is a sign of spiritual maturity where the struggle goes into non-striving, i.e., where sadhana changes from struggle and striving into effortlessness grace, release (vairaga), and joyful surrender (isvara pranidhana). Here we follow naturally the bliss in the transpersonal/non-dual Heart. Here there is neither too little, nor too much and the cravings that arise are seen as a recognition as the longing of the heart who has become momentarily dissuaded. Returning to the Heart feels good — it is Sat Chit Ananda! Beautifuly said. But 99% of the people including me are still very far from that. Samadhi leads to what you describe. If that was reality for me, I wouldn’t be writing on this usenet. Since a friend who studies in the Mahamudra tradition of Tibetan yoga, gave me this last night at a kirtan. I would like to share an extract from it with you, Karas. Thank you for a beauiful text. I wish me, you and everybody else could attain that immovable wisdom in this lifetime. Hari Om Taras
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yes, there is "real" bliss and "REAL" bliss This is valuable to discern. The former is a release from an oppression , a freedom rom –short and temporary and bringing lasting happiness. It is "normally" a neurotic compensation.adaptation for the craving that is brought about from separation from the Self, is it not? It can make things worse (as being lost in our lust, greed, and pursuit of lasting happiness in endless sublimation, or it can be harmless/neutral if we indulge without attachment or illusion. Sadhana is hindered when we are afraid of these desires, when we build up tension and stress around them, try to repress them, go into denial, or pretend that they do not exist. Yes, the old habitual ways of dealing with "discomfort" may arise (vasanas) but to recognize them as they are and to not become seduced nor attached to acting them out produces a certain amount of liberation and energy.
I agree. That is a real ‘tapas’. Still, it’s very hard to practice it. As I understand Osho’s teaching, it goes in totally different direction. ‘Whatever feels good, it is your path?’. I did that for 25 years and i didn’t get far. How many beers can one drink before he ends up in Betty Ford? Yes, exactly and this is a sign of spiritual maturity where the struggle goes into non-striving, i.e., where sadhana changes from struggle and striving into effortlessness grace, release (vairaga), and joyful surrender (isvara pranidhana). Here we follow naturally the bliss in the transpersonal/non-dual Heart. Here there is neither too little, nor too much and the cravings that arise are seen as a recognition as the longing of the heart who has become momentarily dissuaded. Returning to the Heart feels good — it is Sat Chit Ananda!
Beautifuly said. But 99% of the people including me are still very far from that. Samadhi leads to what you describe. If that was reality for me, I wouldn’t be writing on this usenet. Since a friend who studies in the Mahamudra tradition of Tibetan yoga, gave me this last night at a kirtan. I would like to share an extract from it with you, Karas.
Thank you for a beauiful text. I wish me, you and everybody else could attain that immovable wisdom in this lifetime. Hari Om Taras
Response:
Yesterday during the meditation i felt an natural bliss to get me a XXL sandwich and a cold beer. That urge comes to me very often, a few times a day. I don’t know if that’s my path, but it certainly feels good. Taras (i’m still waiting for my first Rolls Royce)
Be careful, you may offend Mr. Singh. If you do, he will put you on the "ignore corner", you may read your posts but others won’t, and worse, no beer there:^)
Response:
Be careful, you may offend Mr. Singh. If you do, he will put you on the "ignore corner", you may read your posts but others won’t, and worse, no beer there:^)
I hope he isn’t offended. I don’t think he would kick me or anyone else out just because he/she doesn’t 100% agree with him, as long it is done polite. (btw is this what happened to Danijel Turina?) I’m not an expert on Osho’s teachings, I’ve read some parts of his books (which were quite interesting) and i’ve seen a documentary about him and his movement. His ’sannyasins’ seemed to enjoy themselves very much. Osho himself managed to collect a few dozen Rollce Royses. He said he is a man of simple taste, he likes the best! I don’t recall completely how the show ended, but i know it involved an armed conflict between his private army and government forces with few causalties. Oridinary person can’t comprehend deeds of enlightened master. On the other hand there are many frauds around. One is free to form his/her opinion. But one thing is a fact: Osho’s path transcends the concept of ‘tapas’
Response:
The Meditation Tip of the Day – June 06, 2001 A simple criterion should be remembered: whatever feels good for you – blissful, peaceful, spontaneous, happening on its own accord – that is your path. Osho http://www.deeshan.com The Meditation Tip is available for FREE as a wallpaper for your computer. See the details at: http://www.paperquote.com/subscribe/index.htm —–NOTICE—– If you would like to sponsor this service or put an ad here, please contact To Subscribe send a blank email to To Unsubscribe send a blank email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Response:
Yesterday during the meditation i felt an natural bliss to get me a XXL sandwich and a cold beer. That urge comes to me very often, a few times a day. I don’t know if that’s my path, but it certainly feels good. Taras (i’m still waiting for my first Rolls Royce)
Response:
Yesterday during the meditation i felt an natural bliss to get me a XXL sandwich and a cold beer. That urge comes to me very often, a few times a day. I don’t know if that’s my path, but it certainly feels good.
Boy, do I hear that. But, moderation in everything
Response:
Yes, well I never found a sandwhich or beer to provide any bliss — what kind of beer do you drink? I remember i attended a Vedanta Society conference once many years ago in Olema, where the guest speaker was a Greek Orthodox Father. He delivered a lecture whose theme was "Following your heart — It was that the alchemy of the Heart had the potential of transforming ordinary experiences into sacred experiences. Boy, did he get a lot of flack afterwards from the audience during the question and answer period (much of which was downright hostile to a point that teh Swami had to stand up in defnese of his premise). It seems that many people did not trust their heart, their feelings, or emotions, but rather judged them to be evil and in need of being repressed. The good father tried to explain that these "feeelings" were neurotoic cravings, due to the repression of the Heart, not the Natural yearning of the Heart for union which brings actual fulfillment and satisfaction. It seems that many people in the audience felt threatened by the Father’s premise that within the Heart of man abides love and innate bliss waiting to be revealed, but rather that salvation waited for them by controlling their inner most feelings and being swept away some how to God’s further shore. Most people expressed their fear of feeling period. It seemed to me that with that attitude, the duality and separation were being reinforced to a point of a hopeless dualistic separation and alienation. The question and answer period was a real revelation to me, moreso than the actual lecture which preceded it.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday during the meditation i felt an natural bliss to get me a XXL sandwich and a cold beer. That urge comes to me very often, a few times a day. I don’t know if that’s my path, but it certainly feels good. Taras (i’m still waiting for my first Rolls Royce)
Response:
Yes, well I never found a sandwhich or beer to provide any bliss — what kind of beer do you drink?
Any kind will do, as long it’s ice cold. (hot day, 35 degrees in the shadow…, it can be a real bliss ) Boy, did he get a lot of flack afterwards from the audience during the question and answer period (much of which was downright hostile to a point that teh Swami had to stand up in defnese of his premise). It seems that many people did not trust their heart, their feelings, or emotions, but rather judged them to be evil and in need of being repressed. The good father tried to explain that these "feeelings" were neurotoic cravings, due to the repression of the Heart, not the Natural yearning of the Heart for union which brings actual fulfillment and satisfaction.
It’s really hard to differentiate between these cravings and real ‘heart’ feelings. Ego can operate on very profound and subtle levels. Many times when analyzing my thoughts (even those which appeared very spiritual) i found out that there’s an egoistical thinking behind them. (expectations, bragging, pride regarding my ’spiritualitiy’ and ‘cleverness’).
Response:
Any kind will do, as long it’s ice cold. (hot day, 35 degrees in the shadow…, it can be a real bliss )
yes, there is "real" bliss and "REAL" bliss This is valuable to discern. The former is a release from an oppression , a freedom rom –short and temporary and bringing lasting happiness. It is "normally" a neurotic compensation.adaptation for the craving that is brought about from separation from the Self, is it not? It can make things worse (as being lost in our lust, greed, and pursuit of lasting happiness in endless sublimation, or it can be harmless/neutral if we indulge without attachment or illusion. Sadhana is hindered when we are afraid of these desires, when we build up tension and stress around them, try to repress them, go into denial, or pretend that they do not exist. Yes, the old habitual ways of dealing with "discomfort" may arise (vasanas) but to recognize them as they are and to not become seduced nor attached to acting them out produces a certain amount of liberation and energy. It’s really hard to differentiate between these cravings and real ‘heart’ feelings. Ego can operate on very profound and subtle levels. Many times when analyzing my thoughts (even those which appeared very spiritual) i found out that there’s an egoistical thinking behind them. (expectations, bragging, pride regarding my ’spiritualitiy’ and ‘cleverness’).
Yes, exactly and this is a sign of spiritual maturity where the struggle goes into non-striving, i.e., where sadhana changes from struggle and striving into effortlessness grace, release (vairaga), and joyful surrender (isvara pranidhana). Here we follow naturally the bliss in the transpersonal/non-dual Heart. Here there is neither too little, nor too much and the cravings that arise are seen as a recognition as the longing of the heart who has become momentarily dissuaded. Returning to the Heart feels good — it is Sat Chit Ananda! Since a friend who studies in the Mahamudra tradition of Tibetan yoga, gave me this last night at a kirtan. I would like to share an extract from it with you, Karas. It is on this subject, except it comes from a Buddhist perspective whose context is the meditation of no-meditation. It is based on the non-dual view that in Reality everything is inter-connected , while the separateness (of individual or fragmented dharmas) is the illusion. This Reality is not bound by time and place, yet is found within it as well. Dharmakaya The self-arising wisdom inherent within all sentient beings, unmade and unsought, exists as such as Dharmakaya. Do not fixate on renouncing or receiving, but rest instead within this state (called Dharmadhatu). Unmoving, unthinking, essence. like a great mountain of equanimity, uncreated, self accomplished, omni-present; the space of this ground is truly vast. Unchanging, universal lord of kaya and wisdom — Vase of noble attainment, great self arising empowerment! Since the essence and the actual vessel of the phenomenal world are eternal self-existence — reflecting sacred presence — this need not be sought or produced. The nature is self existing. It does all for you. Everything blossoms as great. self-existing spontaneity. When one looks within at the purified mind of yoga insight; groundless and independent. It is free from names and static form — ascribations of any kind. It is not seen as expressible by characteristics. One dispenses with organized view and meditation. Natural, even and vast, pervasive and all encompassing, impractical, unbounded by sessions or retreats, it ranges freely, completely, and totally unrestricted. Not referring to body, object or appearance, vast as the space of sky, totally-all encompassing, inner dharmas, grasped as self are non-existent. One sees objects that seemed to be external, as ethereal, tenuous wraiths of diaphanous, fluid transparency, ungraspable,protean bubbles,hollow pretensions of substance. No dharmas are there to be grasped as objective reference points. Sound and appearance, understanding and memory, experience and feeling, are none of them as they were before. What’s this?…The appearance of madness? Am I dreaming? One could ask such questions. Free from perception of enemies as well as friends, free from desire and hatred, near and far, with no bounded partialities of day or night, with neither distinction nor preference in total single equality, one awakens from samsara’s fixation reference points. Since self-arising wisdom is not seen as a (separate) self, it escapes the cage of accepting, rejecting, renouncing, and antidotes. If there is that realization, there is Non-Dual Wisdom. The vision of self arising Samantabhadra is gained. This is the ground of exhaustion with no place to fall back. Not realizing equality, the self-arising state; having become attached to words like non-duality, if one puts one’s confidence in the conceptual; notion that one should have ideas about anything whatsoever, one’s wrong conception is the space of ignorant darkness. Therefore train in that which is self-arising and changeless in perfect contemplation of the non-dual noble monarch. The three worlds are already completely liberated. That is the meaning intended by it being said; "Samsara and Nirvana do not exist as two". Coming forth from within the nature of "itself", the fortress of Dharmakaya spontaneously arises. Completely pure like space. Its rising transcends example. While one has attachment to the individuality of "this or that", dualistic thinking arises, and one is caught in the cage of confusion of self and other. When "this" is unbounded by anything different, all is the all-encompassing equality, and there remains nothing to serve as conceptual reference points. That is what is known as non-dual realization. So it has been said by Vajrasattva himself.
Response:
Categories: Yoga Master | 
No Comments »