TM vs. yogic or trad meditation
Question:
KJ, It seems to me that SACRIFICE OF THE EGO is not correct. First of all one should know what is an EGO! Ego is a false SELF,it is a self has been tailored by others and given to us as an outfit to put on. And we do it but in reality this ego that is (false self) ,and the real self ,(inner self) are in a big fight…Unhappines is the result of this endless fight.The real solution lies within the reaching the real SELF…All we have to do must be to reach the REAL SELF… That is so simple,You can not sacrifice anything if it is false! With compassion, Puma
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day Stu :) No worries. You have my humble apologies for being so quick to judge TM. I didn’t mention the benefitial side/effects of TM due to the fact that if you search for ‘transcendental meditation’ on Google, most of what you see *is* the benefits and I didn’t think this was balanced. What I should of done was use that search, but also point out some of the possible criticisms, therefore being non-biased. Reading your post helped me realise what my problem is with TM: it seems to me like a money-making scandal. The practise seems sound [mantras], err, no pun intended, but the other problem I have is that people ( only some ) /apparently/ have side effects from the mantras. These being a disassociative feeling, feeling dazed afterwards, release of stored anger in a bad fashion, etc.
After the Beetles, The Beach Boys and Moody Blues popularized TM in the 60’s millions of people were initiated. Of those people I am sure there was a percentage of people with prior mental pathologies. I suspect that those reporting depersonalization or other mental effects had prior conditions. There is also a condition called the "relaxation response". People with deeply buried stresses will find that relaxation allows these stresses to surface. Meditation, massage, asana are exactly what these people need. They just need to work through it. If TM is dangerous, then all forms of meditation are dangerous. Like I said it is no big secret of a technique. You start to say the mantra silently, and when you forget you start it up again. This is done with the least effort possible. The method of teaching how to accomplish this with the least effort is Maharishi’s greatest accomplishment. We don’t pay for the mantra, we pay for the subtle technique trained with careful conformity. You can get the mantra from any Web site on Bija Mantras. They are no secret. The trick is in the way the meditation is practiced to be effective. I don’t like that they ‘forget’ to mention the Hindu side of it – is this true? [Hindu religion side; Puja to Guru Dev] You have been initiated so could you elaborate on it’s validity? To hear it from someone who actually practises TM and not from some website whose motives I don’t actually know would be appreciated and more realistic.
TM has its roots in the Hindu religion. Maharishi’s book "Science of Being and the Art of Living" is very clear about TM’s roots. This book was required reading back in the 70’s. It has a chapter dedicated to the teachings of the Hindu bible, "The Bhagavad Gita". Maharishi has maintained that it is important to practice one’s own religion. And that TM is fully compatible with other religions. I did not feel deceived when I was initiated. The Hindu roots were apparent to anyone who goes into a TM center. And there are a number of Priests, Rabbi’s and Ministers who practice TM along with their faith. However, Fundamentalist xtians seem to have a problem with TM. Apparently it is not compatible with their interpretation of the bible. They also have a problem with all forms of yoga. For them it is witchcraft. We are all going to die and go to hell. Have you learnt the sidhas levels?
No. I have had very little contact with the TMO. I have been back for some lectures and group meditations. But I see no reason to get further techniques. The basic TM technique is simple and powerful. I’m glad you don’t hate me :) Smile for no reason! Shane-o =]
Glad to be of help. — ~Stu
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization. When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another zone. But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just seemed wacko. I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation techniques but I have done a bit. Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation. — Joey Goldstein http://www.joeygoldstein.com joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Hi Joey, In my experience of trying various techniques the important principle in all is letting go and sacrifice of the ego. It is only in the quality of the sacrifice that progress is made. Whether this is a simple meditation where one focusses on the breath and sacrifices all other thoughts in the practice, or in Bhakti meditation where one inwardly sacrifices all attachments and lets go in God. Regards KJ
Response:
Hi Joe, Every body who is within this YOGA act clearly knows that TM is a sharlatan bizz.The guy on their top is not a yogi. Because non of a real yogi collects any sort of any material from the others….Even to charge its members for US DOLLARS…is only seen in SHARLATANS WAY of ACTION. These people claim levitation. But levitation is a bully…No one can be against GRAVITY… Only you have to use another force to make it zero! So maharishi is not a rishi at all…All he is doing CHEATING.. But only very stups can believe such bullies…They say that TM -Sidhi is an advanced program including yogic flying.. Are they stups? No one can fly….They think everybody stup!!! That is the point … Puma
Response:
G’day Stu :) No worries. You have my humble apologies for being so quick to judge TM. I didn’t mention the benefitial side/effects of TM due to the fact that if you search for ‘transcendental meditation’ on Google, most of what you see *is* the benefits and I didn’t think this was balanced. What I should of done was use that search, but also point out some of the possible criticisms, therefore being non-biased. Reading your post helped me realise what my problem is with TM: it seems to me like a money-making scandal. The practise seems sound [mantras], err, no pun intended, but the other problem I have is that people ( only some ) /apparently/ have side effects from the mantras. These being a disassociative feeling, feeling dazed afterwards, release of stored anger in a bad fashion, etc. I don’t like that they ‘forget’ to mention the Hindu side of it – is this true? [Hindu religion side; Puja to Guru Dev] You have been initiated so could you elaborate on it’s validity? To hear it from someone who actually practises TM and not from some website whose motives I don’t actually know would be appreciated and more realistic. Have you learnt the sidhas levels? I’m glad you don’t hate me :) Smile for no reason! Shane-o =]
Response:
(snip) Greetings Stu :) Seriously man, relax. Please don’t take my opinion so seriously/personally. I’m not attacking TM, although it may have come across that way <sigh
Honestly, A google search for TM Cult Danger? If you were not attacking TM why didn’t you post any of the studies that the National Institute of Health has sponsored showing TM’s many positive benefits? I said at the start that I am no expert in relation to TM and have never practised it.
That is very clear. I also mentioned: <Quote You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of any possible dangers :) I’d hate to think that my inaction helped someone to become hurt … </Quote
This is how those sites work. They don’t need any real facts, just opinions written up to look like facts. How do imagine getting hurt by closing one’s eyes twice a day and repeating a mantra? Why would you give these nuts support by spreading their links? Notice that I did not say that TM is dangerous or that you will die from it, just that there /may/ be possible dangers. The possible dangers are mentioned on trancenet.org.
No they are not mentioned on trancenet. The are fabricated on trancenet. How is TM Yoga? This is an /honest/ question. Do you do asanas in TM?
Not in TM. TM is meditation. It is non action. Breath settles to nearly nothing. The only asana one practices when one meditates is sitting. However, TM is practiced before or after asanas and pranayama. Though when it is taught, the asanas and paranayama are an option. On the weekend courses the students practice rounding, this is a cycle of asanas, pranayama and meditation. I learned asana practice long before I learned TM. I have found the two practices complement each other. You said "Why spread this venom?" I already answered that in the above quote. Plus, I did not consider it "venom", just another side to a story that may or may not be true. You seem to consider it "venom" because you do not know any person with any problems from it, so see the articles as illogical. I can understand that :)
No, you purposely looked for the dangerous cult side. Where were the 2000 some research studies on TM that can be found on Pub Med? For example: Am J Cardiol. 2005 May 1;95(9):1060-4. Long-term effects of stress reduction on mortality in persons or = 55 years of age with systemic hypertension. Schneider RH, Alexander CN, Staggers F, Rainforth M, Salerno JW, Hartz A, Arndt S, Barnes VA, Nidich SI. Institute for Natural Medicine and Prevention, Maharishi University of Psychosocial stress contributes to high blood pressure and subsequent cardiovascular morbidity and mortality. Previous controlled studies have associated decreasing stress with the Transcendental Meditation (TM) program with lower blood pressure. The objective of the present study was to evaluate, over the long term, all-cause and cause-specific mortality in older subjects who had high blood pressure and who participated in randomized controlled trials that included the TM program and other behavioral stress-decreasing interventions. Patient data were pooled from 2 published randomized controlled trials that compared TM, other behavioral interventions, and usual therapy for high blood pressure. There were 202 subjects, including 77 whites (mean age 81 years) and 125 African-American (mean age 66 years) men and women. In these studies, average baseline blood pressure was in the prehypertensive or stage I hypertension range. Follow-up of vital status and cause of death over a maximum of 18.8 years was determined from the National Death Index. Survival analysis was used to compare intervention groups on mortality rates after adjusting for study location. Mean follow-up was 7.6 +/- 3.5 years. Compared with combined controls, the TM group showed a 23% decrease in the primary outcome of all-cause mortality after maximum follow-up (relative risk 0.77, p = 0.039). Secondary analyses showed a 30% decrease in the rate of cardiovascular mortality (relative risk 0.70, p = 0.045) and a 49% decrease in the rate of mortality due to cancer (relative risk 0.49, p = 0.16) in the TM group compared with combined controls. These results suggest that a specific stress-decreasing approach used in the prevention and control of high blood pressure, such as the TM program, may contribute to decreased mortality from all causes and cardiovascular disease in older subjects who have systemic hypertension. PMID: 15842971 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Look, I get the feeling from your post that you’re not impressed with me right now. My apologies if I am wrong, seriously. I’m not afraid to say sorry if shown that I am wrong. Also, thanks for the other links. I do know of the related health benefits of TM. A lot of these benefits were mentioned when I went to the TM Centre here in Australia. Do you still hate me? :)
No. I don’t hate you. The internet is full of misinformation. The yoga community is full of cults. Each cult seems to have its demons. Osha was kicked out of the US. His cult was discovered passing viruses to a nearby town population. He owned a bunch of Rolls Royces. Yet his lectures and writings are still inspirational. Yogaville was run by a guru who was having secret affairs with a number of students. Yet we have had people on this NG who have learned a great deal from Yogaville. Sure the TMO is a bit weird. They charge too much for meditation. I would never recommend them for that reason alone. But they don’t deserve to racked through the coals. The yoga is sound. Maharishi’s writings are still good. And I have found no better technique than TM in my wanderings. — ~Stu
Response:
I will refrain from speaking further.
Hmm. I wonder why. — Joey Goldstein http://www.joeygoldstein.com joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Response:
Thanks for writing Stu. As for "yogic meditation", TM is as yogic as you can get. Hmm. Most of the yoga books I’ve read have meditations where you monitor your breath or concentrate on the light from a candle or on some particular thought with an actual meaning. The only other mantra meditations I’ve read about seem to involve actually making the sound of the mantra, vocally (eg. "OM"), which again is tied up with the breath. Mantras can be chanted, or recited silently.
TM appears to be unique in that the mantra is simply a thought, and a meaningless thought at that, and does not need to be tied to any rhythmic cycle in its repetitions. Actually, there are a number of organizations that teach mantra meditation like the TM people. As I said before it is standard traditional yoga. I already mentioned the Buddhist site Wildmind.org, there is the Vedanta Society http://www.vedanta.org/, The Siddha Yoga foundation http://www.siddhayoga.org/index.html
Those are off the top of my head. Also, these organizations will initiate you for free or a very small voluntary donation. Deepak Chopra’s organization teaches a TM like version of mediation for about $375. I know there is a lot of baggage attached to the TM teacher’s assignation of the mantra. As a TM practitioner ("follower"?) of many years, Stu, how do you feel about this? Back in 1974 I went to a series of lectures, initiation and followup to learn TM. They also gave me a very quick instruction on asanas and pranayama. I paid them $35. They offered weekend courses and advanced techniques. I never took them up on those.
I have read Maharishi’s book, The Science of Being and the Art of Living. Back in 1974 it was an excellent introduction to yoga. There are better books now. Maharishi also wrote an interpretation of the Bhagavad-Gita. It is an excellent clear interpretation of the text. I suggest it to anyone. There was a guy (Eli Bay?) who was teaching a de-mystified version of TM called The Relaxation Response and he simply replaced the Hindu mantras with the word "one". Do you think that this mantra can be as effective as the ones assigned by the TM people? There has been some independent studies of this, the results showed that TM resulted in a very different physiological state then simple repeating a word.
If not, then why? It may be that the teaching of TM is highly controlled. It followers conventions that go back hundreds of years and is time tested. The official TM explanation is that the Mantras are imbued with the presence of "Guru Dev" through the Puja. I do know that if I use a different mantra than the one I was given I do not have the same effects.
The TM organization is very bizarre. Part of that is because Maharishi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – runs the organization from the top down. He is not good at running organizations. He is very good at teaching meditation and talking about the mechanics of consciousness. He is one of the few Guru types out there that has not lied about his past or been caught sleeping with students. I highly suggest you go for free "checking" you may find that is enough to get you going again. The trick is to make the practice a habit. You are very fortunate to have been initiated. Use it as a base line to understand other techniques that are out there. — ~Stu I’d rather stay away from the "organization" at this point. Practicing TM is not a high priority for me right now so I don’t think I’ll be going in for any "checking" any time soon. The technique’s not really all that hard to remember anyway. Thats too bad you have taken that attitude. I understand your problem with the TMO. But when I have gone in for a checking even 20 years later I have found it to be a good experience. You seem to be interested in starting to meditate again. That is the easiest way.
If you want a change, look in the phone book and see who teaches meditation in the area. You may find a different technique resonates with you better. There are hundreds of meditation techniques. There must be a reason for this. Different strokes for different folks. You may also enjoy taking some yoga classes. You may enjoy asanas as yet another facet in the jewel of yoga. The point here is if you are interested in yoga there are plenty of avenues to explore. — ~Stu
Response:
Hey there Tracy :) Thankyou kindly for your input. Did you know TM is also a religion ( as ruled in a court of law ). Apparently this is hidden from trainees. It’s Hindu based with offerings to Guru Dev at the trainees ‘puja’ (err, means initiation ceremony? ). The mantras are also /apparently/ Hindu Diety names. Knowing my luck it’ll be different now [Puja] and I’ll offend Stu even more :( Smiles and Reiki to you Shane-o =]
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What is it that you think separates a cult from a religion or from a congregation or merely from a group of people with shared values? I don’t like organized religion either. I think the only difference between a major organized religion and a cult is that the religion has figured out at least what you really don’t do, in order to keep members. it’s still all about keeping members. Just a group of people with shared values….well, I don’t know what makes that spiritual.
Spiritual values? — Joey Goldstein http://www.joeygoldstein.com joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is it that you think separates a cult from a religion or from a congregation or merely from a group of people with shared values? I don’t like organized religion either. I think the only difference between a major organized religion and a cult is that the religion has figured out at least what you really don’t do, in order to keep members. it’s still all about keeping members. Just a group of people with shared values….well, I don’t know what makes that spiritual. Spiritual values?
I will refrain from speaking further.
Response:
Hey there Tracy :) Thankyou kindly for your input. Did you know TM is also a religion ( as ruled in a court of law ). Apparently this is hidden from trainees. It’s Hindu based with offerings to Guru Dev at the trainees ‘puja’ (err, means initiation ceremony? ). The mantras are also /apparently/ Hindu Diety names. That doesn’t change that it’s a cult.
Greetings Tracy < bangs head on monitor I didn’t say it wasn’t, I’m saying that it’s a religious cult! :) Shane-o =]
Response:
<snip of old stuff, because I’m jumping in in the middle of this thread just to answer a single question How is TM Yoga? This is an /honest/ question. Do you do asanas in TM?
They *do* asanas. I’m not into TM, but a former girlfriend of mine was. She did her asanas like an expert. She learned it all from the TM organisation, as far as I know. She also kept a yoga diet, or at least she was vegetarian, but this was her own idea, I think, not TM. She also adhered to the yamas and the niyamas. She was, on the whole, a better yogi than I, but I still felt that the TM organization had ripped her off, since she could have learned the same things much cheaper elsewhere, with the possible exception of some secret "Siddha" stuff she had sworn to be silent about. That oath of silence was often very annoying to both of us, since it hampered our discussions. S.
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What is it that you think separates a cult from a religion or from a congregation or merely from a group of people with shared values?
I don’t like organized religion either. I think the only difference between a major organized religion and a cult is that the religion has figured out at least what you really don’t do, in order to keep members. it’s still all about keeping members. Just a group of people with shared values….well, I don’t know what makes that spiritual.
Response:
Hey there Tracy :) Thankyou kindly for your input. Did you know TM is also a religion ( as ruled in a court of law ). Apparently this is hidden from trainees. It’s Hindu based with offerings to Guru Dev at the trainees ‘puja’ (err, means initiation ceremony? ). The mantras are also /apparently/ Hindu Diety names.
That doesn’t change that it’s a cult.
Response:
What is it that you think separates a cult from a religion or from a congregation or merely from a group of people with shared values? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Absolutely it is a cult. Just get some books on traditional meditation. G’day Tracy :) Could you please explain why you have come to that conclusion? I honestly want to know. I’ve read a lot of good about it and a lot of bad ( sorry Stu ). Opinions are great and I’d like yours :) I’ve read enough testimonials from survivors of that cult, on the web. When cults say: Oh, don’t believe it, that’s just sour grapes, well. I would only believe *that* if I know the person saying it personally, and trust their opinion, and that person knows the one who criticizes the cult personally, and knows for a fact that the person has an ulterior motive. It happens all too often – what else could a cult do, to minimize the bad effect of the truth getting out? Dismiss it out of hand. exactly. try rickross.com – that is one place where they have some info about TM as a cult: http://www.rickross.com/groups/tm.html tracy
– Joey Goldstein http://www.joeygoldstein.com joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Response:
Absolutely it is a cult. Just get some books on traditional meditation.
Response:
Absolutely it is a cult. Just get some books on traditional meditation.
G’day Tracy :) Could you please explain why you have come to that conclusion? I honestly want to know. I’ve read a lot of good about it and a lot of bad ( sorry Stu ). Opinions are great and I’d like yours :) Smile for no reason! Go on, do it :) Shane-o =]
Response:
Absolutely it is a cult. Just get some books on traditional meditation. G’day Tracy :) Could you please explain why you have come to that conclusion? I honestly want to know. I’ve read a lot of good about it and a lot of bad ( sorry Stu ). Opinions are great and I’d like yours :)
I’ve read enough testimonials from survivors of that cult, on the web. When cults say: Oh, don’t believe it, that’s just sour grapes, well. I would only believe *that* if I know the person saying it personally, and trust their opinion, and that person knows the one who criticizes the cult personally, and knows for a fact that the person has an ulterior motive. It happens all too often – what else could a cult do, to minimize the bad effect of the truth getting out? Dismiss it out of hand. exactly. try rickross.com – that is one place where they have some info about TM as a cult: http://www.rickross.com/groups/tm.html tracy
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization. When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another zone. But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just seemed wacko. I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation techniques but I have done a bit. Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation. Hey there Joey :) TM, eh? Hmmmm … be careful is all I can say. From what I’ve read, it’s considered a cult, charges excessive amounts of money for mantras and can affect the brain when you get into the higher sidhas levels ( think that’s what it is called ). They also believe they can ‘fly’ in the higher levels. I’m no expert and have never practised TM, although I was going to learn it about ten years ago and they wanted $500 here in Australia for the first level(s) ( that was a damn lot back then ). This is merely *my* opinion and not fact. Have a look through Google with: http://tinyurl.com/dgetk Why did you feel a need to hide your search as TM Cult Danger? How about a search for "TM peaceful form of yoga". Or do a pubmed search on TM. You will find thousands of research articles that have proven TM to have fantastic health benefits. http://www.freep.com/news/education/tm5_20030605.htm http://www.rxtm.co.nz/cardiovascular_disease/congestive_heart_failure… http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=7433 http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/transcende… Over the last 40 years there have been many independent studies of the effects of TM. I have not seen one that showed any danger. Look carefully at who is putting up these anti-TM sites. Most are Christian groups. More often then not they are disgruntled student who did not get what they were looking for out of the organization. and you’ll see what I mean; highlights being: http://trancenet.org/research/index.shtml <— *Important!* http://www.trancenet.org/ http://www.suggestibility.org/ You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of any possible dangers :) I’d hate to think that my inaction helped someone to become hurt … What dangers are those? I have known thousands of people who have practiced TM. I have never known anyone to be hurt by closing there eyes and thinking a mantra. Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM. TM is yoga. It is a technique clearly described by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras. Smile for no reason! Shane-o =] Why do you want to spread this venom?
Greetings Stu :) Seriously man, relax. Please don’t take my opinion so seriously/personally. I’m not attacking TM, although it may have come across that way <sigh I said at the start that I am no expert in relation to TM and have never practised it. I also mentioned: <Quote You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of any possible dangers :) I’d hate to think that my inaction helped someone to become hurt … </Quote Notice that I did not say that TM is dangerous or that you will die from it, just that there /may/ be possible dangers. The possible dangers are mentioned on trancenet.org. How is TM Yoga? This is an /honest/ question. Do you do asanas in TM? You said "Why spread this venom?" I already answered that in the above quote. Plus, I did not consider it "venom", just another side to a story that may or may not be true. You seem to consider it "venom" because you do not know any person with any problems from it, so see the articles as illogical. I can understand that :) Look, I get the feeling from your post that you’re not impressed with me right now. My apologies if I am wrong, seriously. I’m not afraid to say sorry if shown that I am wrong. Also, thanks for the other links. I do know of the related health benefits of TM. A lot of these benefits were mentioned when I went to the TM Centre here in Australia. Do you still hate me? :) Smile for no reason Shane-o =]
Response:
Thanks for writing Stu. As for "yogic meditation", TM is as yogic as you can get.
Hmm. Most of the yoga books I’ve read have meditations where you monitor your breath or concentrate on the light from a candle or on some particular thought with an actual meaning. The only other mantra meditations I’ve read about seem to involve actually making the sound of the mantra, vocally (eg. "OM"), which again is tied up with the breath. TM appears to be unique in that the mantra is simply a thought, and a meaningless thought at that, and does not need to be tied to any rhythmic cycle in its repetitions. I know there is a lot of baggage attached to the TM teacher’s assignation of the mantra. As a TM practitioner ("follower"?) of many years, Stu, how do you feel about this? There was a guy (Eli Bay?) who was teaching a de-mystified version of TM called The Relaxation Response and he simply replaced the Hindu mantras with the word "one". Do you think that this mantra can be as effective as the ones assigned by the TM people? If not, then why? The TM organization is very bizarre. Part of that is because Maharishi runs the organization from the top down. He is not good at running organizations. He is very good at teaching meditation and talking about the mechanics of consciousness. He is one of the few Guru types out there that has not lied about his past or been caught sleeping with students. I highly suggest you go for free "checking" you may find that is enough to get you going again. The trick is to make the practice a habit. You are very fortunate to have been initiated. Use it as a base line to understand other techniques that are out there. — ~Stu
I’d rather stay away from the "organization" at this point. Practicing TM is not a high priority for me right now so I don’t think I’ll be going in for any "checking" any time soon. The technique’s not really all that hard to remember anyway. — Joey Goldstein http://www.joeygoldstein.com joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization. When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another zone. But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just seemed wacko. I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation techniques but I have done a bit. Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation. Hey there Joey :) TM, eh? Hmmmm … be careful is all I can say. From what I’ve read, it’s considered a cult, charges excessive amounts of money for mantras and can affect the brain when you get into the higher sidhas levels ( think that’s what it is called ). They also believe they can ‘fly’ in the higher levels. I’m no expert and have never practised TM, although I was going to learn it about ten years ago and they wanted $500 here in Australia for the first level(s) ( that was a damn lot back then ). This is merely *my* opinion and not fact. Have a look through Google with: http://tinyurl.com/dgetk
Why did you feel a need to hide your search as TM Cult Danger? How about a search for "TM peaceful form of yoga". Or do a pubmed search on TM. You will find thousands of research articles that have proven TM to have fantastic health benefits. http://www.freep.com/news/education/tm5_20030605.htm http://www.rxtm.co.nz/cardiovascular_disease/congestive_heart_failure… http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=7433 http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/transcende… Over the last 40 years there have been many independent studies of the effects of TM. I have not seen one that showed any danger. Look carefully at who is putting up these anti-TM sites. Most are Christian groups. More often then not they are disgruntled student who did not get what they were looking for out of the organization. and you’ll see what I mean; highlights being: http://trancenet.org/research/index.shtml <— *Important!* http://www.trancenet.org/ http://www.suggestibility.org/ You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of any possible dangers :) I’d hate to think that my inaction helped someone to become hurt … What dangers are those? I have known thousands of people who have practiced TM. I have never known anyone to be hurt by closing there eyes and thinking a mantra.
Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM. TM is yoga. It is a technique clearly described by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras.
Smile for no reason! Shane-o =] Why do you want to spread this venom?
– ~Stu
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Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization. When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another zone. But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just seemed wacko. I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation techniques but I have done a bit.
TM is very traditional meditation. Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
I have been practicing TM for about 30 years. Its been a very good run. The organization is nutty, but the basic technique is good. It truly comes from a traditional Indian system. The way it is taught is highly monitored to make sure the subtle practice is passed on correctly. You may want to contact someone in your area and get "checked". It is free, and will get you on back on your practice. There is an 800 number at TM.org As for "yogic meditation", TM is as yogic as you can get. It is meditation as taught in the Sankara tradition. A system that has been passed on from master to student for several millennia. It is a mantra form of meditation. There are other forms of meditation. Most of them have Buddhist roots. There is a very good web site that will give you a taste of other techniques, http://www.wildmind.org/ It is run by a Buddhist monk. He is a little down on TM. Another teacher of the Sankara tradition is Swami Muktananda. He has a cult (used in the good way) in the US. One of his followers is Sally Kempton. She has a terrific book on meditation called "The Heart of Meditation". She travels around and gives workshops. I went to one – it was excellent. http://www.sallykempton.com Although she has no direct relation with the TM org, she has no problem with it. We got along very well at the workshop. Be careful about the Web sites on TM. They are filled with a lot of misinformation. Usually they are run be people with hidden agendas. Some are fundamentalist Christians who think TM and yoga in general is evil. Others are people who came into the organization looking for something the organization didn’t provide. They have an axe to grind. The TM organization is very bizarre. Part of that is because Maharishi runs the organization from the top down. He is not good at running organizations. He is very good at teaching meditation and talking about the mechanics of consciousness. He is one of the few Guru types out there that has not lied about his past or been caught sleeping with students. I highly suggest you go for free "checking" you may find that is enough to get you going again. The trick is to make the practice a habit. You are very fortunate to have been initiated. Use it as a base line to understand other techniques that are out there. — ~Stu
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization. When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another zone. But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just seemed wacko. I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation techniques but I have done a bit. Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation.
Hey there Joey :) TM, eh? Hmmmm … be careful is all I can say. From what I’ve read, it’s considered a cult, charges excessive amounts of money for mantras and can affect the brain when you get into the higher sidhas levels ( think that’s what it is called ). They also believe they can ‘fly’ in the higher levels. I’m no expert and have never practised TM, although I was going to learn it about ten years ago and they wanted $500 here in Australia for the first level(s) ( that was a damn lot back then ). This is merely *my* opinion and not fact. Have a look through Google with: http://tinyurl.com/dgetk and you’ll see what I mean; highlights being: http://trancenet.org/research/index.shtml <— *Important!* http://www.trancenet.org/ http://www.suggestibility.org/ You can believe what you will. Just trying to forewarn you in case of any possible dangers :) I’d hate to think that my inaction helped someone to become hurt … Oh, doing Yoga seems a hell of a lot safer than TM. Smile for no reason! Shane-o =]
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Years ago I paid my $75.00 (CDN) and received my mantra from the TM organization. When I was doing it I found their type of mantra meditation to be extremely relaxing. Sometimes it really seemed like entering another zone. But I never stayed with it for any serious length of time. The folks I saw who were deeply into it, not all of them but many of them, just seemed wacko. I have done very little in the way of other more traditional meditation techniques but I have done a bit. Just wondering how you folks around here feel about TM and whether you could spell out some of the differences between it and yogic meditation. — Joey Goldstein http://www.joeygoldstein.com joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
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thanks….