Question:

Thanks for the great link!  I’ve seen the book on Recovery Yoga before, but never picked it up.  I’m definitely going to spend more time with the site, and check out the book when I get a chance (probably today). I’m still studying Iyengar’s "Light on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali" at the moment. Thanks again, Heather in Oregon

A good read.  Apparently the old man has another "Light on…" book coming out.  He is coming to the US in September to promote it.  He will be teaching in Colorado.  A contingent from my regular yoga class is making the pilgrimage to see him.  I understand he will also be giving a talk at UCLA.  I hope to see him there. — ~Stu

Response:

Thanks for the great link!  I’ve seen the book on Recovery Yoga before, but never picked it up.  I’m definitely going to spend more time with the site, and check out the book when I get a chance (probably today). I’m still studying Iyengar’s "Light on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali" at the moment. Thanks again, Heather in Oregon

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Stu, Just a hint for you to get the correct email address above. This is a general trick to fool span bots which collect email ids from the mailing lists. My 2c. -Sas Thanks.  But how do explain how all these posts have the same form for their email addresses? For example: Isn’t it strange that they should all use exactly the same format to block spam?

Apparently, this conversion is done by the Web/Usenet gateway program (seemingly something called newsSync) automatically, to protect the posters from spam. Furthermore I have found some of their messages on boards going back to 2003 with different names.   (See the thread "Troll Invasion alert" for more details.)

Some web forum admin (or perhaps several admins) seems to have got it into his head that seemless integration between his bulletin board and Usenet is a good thing. He’ll get free content for his site, and maybe make it look more lively than it really is. S.

Response:

Hi Stu, Just a hint for you to get the correct email address above. This is a general trick to fool span bots which collect email ids from the mailing lists. My 2c. -Sas

Response:

Hi Stu, Just a hint for you to get the correct email address above. This is a general trick to fool span bots which collect email ids from the mailing lists. My 2c. -Sas

Thanks.  But how do explain how all these posts have the same form for their email addresses? For example: Isn’t it strange that they should all use exactly the same format to block spam? Furthermore I have found some of their messages on boards going back to 2003 with different names.   (See the thread "Troll Invasion alert" for more details.) — ~Stu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Heather.  I’m a long time lurker, first time posting to this group.  I have to agree with everything Mango said. I have MS, which is also an autoimmune dysfunction.  For physical yoga I attend Iyengar class with the same instructor who has known me for four years and knows my condition.  I chose an instructor who has worked with PWMS (people with multiple sclerosis).   Accomodataions have been made for my limits, I tell him when there are changes, etc. He’s come up with interesting ways of ‘putting things’ to help with my physical practice. My mother has RA, and also does Iyengar yoga.  She has periods where she must skip the physical practice as well.  She goes to class, and no longer uses the tapes she bought many years ago. Do you practice other aspects of yoga meditation, or studying?  I find meditation, studying, or pranayama will move to the center of my practice when I’m not capable of doing the physical practice.  I find these other aspects benificial physically and emotionally.  If you haven’t persued these paths yet, perhaps now is a good time while you heal? I hope this helps in your decision. Regards, Heather in Oregon

Hi Heather, I am very glad to hear you have confronted you condition and are taking proactive steps.  Yoga is all about bringing light and life to the daily grind. (CorpJJ) though.  Although I could not find the original post many of these type posts seem to be forgeries. Do you Sam Dworkis?  He is an Iyengar certified teacher with MS.  His web site is http://www.extensionyoga.com/.  I have found it very illuminating and inspiring. I hope you will contribute more to this group.  We can always use people like you with practical knowledge about yoga. — ~Stu

Response:

Hello, my name is Heather.  I’m a long time lurker, first time posting to this group.  I have to agree with everything Mango said. I have MS, which is also an autoimmune dysfunction.  For physical yoga I attend Iyengar class with the same instructor who has known me for four years and knows my condition.  I chose an instructor who has worked with PWMS (people with multiple sclerosis).   Accomodataions have been made for my limits, I tell him when there are changes, etc. He’s come up with interesting ways of ‘putting things’ to help with my physical practice. My mother has RA, and also does Iyengar yoga.  She has periods where she must skip the physical practice as well.  She goes to class, and no longer uses the tapes she bought many years ago. Do you practice other aspects of yoga meditation, or studying?  I find meditation, studying, or pranayama will move to the center of my practice when I’m not capable of doing the physical practice.  I find these other aspects benificial physically and emotionally.  If you haven’t persued these paths yet, perhaps now is a good time while you heal? I hope this helps in your decision. Regards, Heather in Oregon Numbness and pain as you describe can be associated with a disk condition. Have you had the numbness and pain evaluated? Are you are seeing the physical therapist for the Rheumatoid Arthritis or for another condition? What type of yoga program were you practicing? My training has been focused on the principle that yoga is tailored to the individual. It would be best for you to work one on one with a qualified yoga therapist or instructor who can assist you to develop the awareness you need to practice yoga without inflaming the rheumatoid arthritis.

<snip Rest of post snipped for brevity.

Response:

I started doing Yoga (via video tape) about 8 months ago to help with my Rheaumatoid Arthritis. About two months into the Yoga, I started getting numbness and pain in my right arm. After some physical therapy, this went away. About 2 months ago, I started getting numbness and pain in my lower back and right leg. While getting physical therapy for this problem the physical therapist suggested that I discontinue the Yoga for a while. As soon as I stopped doing the Yoga, the numbness and pain subsited substantially. I am getting bennefits from the Yoga, and would like to continue, but at the same time, I don’t want to introduce new pain in my body. What should I do???

Response:

Numbness and pain as you describe can be associated with a disk condition. Have you had the numbness and pain evaluated? Are you are seeing the physical therapist for the Rheumatoid Arthritis or for another condition? What type of yoga program were you practicing? My training has been focused on the principle that yoga is tailored to the individual. It would be best for you to work one on one with a qualified yoga therapist or instructor who can assist you to develop the awareness you need to practice yoga without inflaming the rheumatoid arthritis. You may also consider finding a gentle or therapeutic yoga class in your area. Poses need to be modified to your body’s capacity to practice without discomfort. Especially key are practicing with an acceptance of the limits of pain free range of motion, which may change from day to day, and which may prevent you from practicing the poses in the same way that others in a general yoga class are practicing. I would not recommend beginning yoga training from a video tape, especially when you have a condition which requires individualized attention. I have worked with a student in her late 40’s who sufferred from this condition. The main practice which I recommended that she do daily was Mukunda’s Joint Freeing Series (see his book Structural Yoga Therapy)- doing the practice WITHOUT experiencing PAIN OF ANY KIND! It was difficult for her not to push into areas of pain, yet that is a key point, as pain will irritate the condition. Pain free range of motion done with a relaxation breath, awareness and acceptance will soothe. I would recommend that you do a search of this web site looking under "arthritis" – and if you still have questions, please post again to me or to Mukunda. He may be able to recommend a Structural Yoga Therapist he has trained who is in your area of the country.

Response:

Question:

Since this outbreak has been going on I noticed some dry skin on the backs of my hands and also very chapped lips that are burning and tingling sometimes and I use chap stick on them, but it hasn’t been helping really. I don’t see any cold on my lips, but I do occasionally get hive like things right next to my lips and the outer borders of my lips has this pink looking swollen skin area. Any ideas? Thanks, Tom

Response:

Since this outbreak has been going on I noticed some dry skin on the backs of my hands and also very chapped lips that are burning and tingling sometimes and I use chap stick on them, but it hasn’t been helping really. I don’t see any cold on my lips, but I do occasionally get hive like things right next to my lips and the outer borders of my lips has this pink looking swollen skin area. Any ideas? Thanks, Tom

Genital herpes can’t cause chapped lips (except possibly in a very roundabout way that might be entirely peculiar to your personal circumstances) , but oral herpes can.  Or it could be something else. Documented cases of oral HSV2 are said to occur either never or very rarely.  With all the other luck you’re having, maybe you’re having that, too. I continue to think that one of the prescribed anti-viral meds are your best bet. Take care, Mike

Response:

I am seeing my doctor in a little over a week, so I am going to ask him for antiviral meds believe me! I do feel considerably better, but still achy and run down feeling, so even if I don’t take them all the time, I could take them when I feel another outbreak coming, but we’ll see what the doctor says. Maybe I do have both but never really got cold sores, just the tingling chapped lips and the swollen outer edge…at this point I am disgusted, and very anxious to go to the doctor and tell him the whole story. I’ll keep you all posted. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since this outbreak has been going on I noticed some dry skin on the backs of my hands and also very chapped lips that are burning and tingling sometimes and I use chap stick on them, but it hasn’t been helping really. I don’t see any cold on my lips, but I do occasionally get hive like things right next to my lips and the outer borders of my lips has this pink looking swollen skin area. Any ideas? Thanks, Tom Genital herpes can’t cause chapped lips (except possibly in a very roundabout way that might be entirely peculiar to your personal circumstances) , but oral herpes can.  Or it could be something else. Documented cases of oral HSV2 are said to occur either never or very rarely.  With all the other luck you’re having, maybe you’re having that, too. I continue to think that one of the prescribed anti-viral meds are your best bet. Take care, Mike

Response:

Hi Perl, As I’ve mentioned before, I have a connective tissue disease which means that anytime the soft tissue is stretched, I get injured.  No yoga.  I prefer pilates – although I generally tend to dislocate a shoulder or two doing that as well. But I feel more stable with pilates than yoga. ar

Yeah, well, I’ve meant something like yoga, that includes pilates. Hopefully it will work for you, I find yoga to be the best thing I can do to improve or maintain the health of my skin. In your case, Ar, it seems a bit more delicate to deal with several problems that I personally have no knowledge of. Connective tissue disease; glucosamine and chondroitin supplements, doesn’t work on this problem? Perl von Molson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perl Molson says… Hi Perl, Yoga is very dangerous for me.  I’m not able to do yoga. ar I understand; that’s unfortunate for you. I still have doubts that it would be "very dangerous" in your case, but you must know it better. You may want to elaborate in here, if you feel comfortable doing it. If not, forget about it. Hopefully other approaches will work out for you. Perl von Molson In article

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perl Molson says… Ar, did you consider trying practicing therapeutic yoga exercises? There are specific exercises for most health problems. With the help of yoga you may revitalise your body’s organs and glands including the tyroid and all the rest of them. Perl von Molson

Response:

says… Yeah, well, I’ve meant something like yoga, that includes pilates. Hopefully it will work for you, I find yoga to be the best thing I can do to improve or maintain the health of my skin. In your case, Ar, it seems a bit more delicate to deal with several problems that I personally have no knowledge of. Connective tissue disease; glucosamine and chondroitin supplements, doesn’t work on this problem? Perl von Molson

It seems to be a collagen disease.  I know from past experience that supplements do not do any good for me so I no longer waste my money on them.  For me, the best thing is always good old fashioned exercise and diet. ar

Response:

Hi Perl, Yoga is very dangerous for me.  I’m not able to do yoga. ar says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ar, did you consider trying practicing therapeutic yoga exercises? There are specific exercises for most health problems. With the help of yoga you may revitalise your body’s organs and glands including the tyroid and all the rest of them. Perl von Molson

Response:

Hi Perl, Yoga is very dangerous for me.  I’m not able to do yoga. ar

I understand; that’s unfortunate for you. I still have doubts that it would be "very dangerous" in your case, but you must know it better. You may want to elaborate in here, if you feel comfortable doing it. If not, forget about it. Hopefully other approaches will work out for you. Perl von Molson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perl Molson says… Ar, did you consider trying practicing therapeutic yoga exercises? There are specific exercises for most health problems. With the help of yoga you may revitalise your body’s organs and glands including the tyroid and all the rest of them. Perl von Molson

Response:

Hi Perl, As I’ve mentioned before, I have a connective tissue disease which means that anytime the soft tissue is stretched, I get injured.  No yoga.  I prefer pilates – although I generally tend to dislocate a shoulder or two doing that as well. But I feel more stable with pilates than yoga. ar says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Perl, Yoga is very dangerous for me.  I’m not able to do yoga. ar I understand; that’s unfortunate for you. I still have doubts that it would be "very dangerous" in your case, but you must know it better. You may want to elaborate in here, if you feel comfortable doing it. If not, forget about it. Hopefully other approaches will work out for you. Perl von Molson Perl Molson says… Ar, did you consider trying practicing therapeutic yoga exercises? There are specific exercises for most health problems. With the help of yoga you may revitalise your body’s organs and glands including the tyroid and all the rest of them. Perl von Molson

Response:

Ar, did you consider trying practicing therapeutic yoga exercises? There are specific exercises for most health problems. With the help of yoga you may revitalise your body’s organs and glands including the tyroid and all the rest of them. Perl von Molson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry, Tom, you are still in better shape than I am.  Since we are going to play this game:  :) Herpes 1 (so does most of the population) HPV (so does most of the population and since I’m female I have a higher risk of cancer because of it…unlike you) Epstein Barr (so does most of the population) Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (Look it up, it sucks) Thyroid disease (No matter how hard I diet and exercise, I will always have extra weight) Lichen Sclerosis – This one is terrible.  I’d rather have herpes than this.  Of course, I have both.  I would say, this has got to be 20 times worse than herpes.  The pain is worse.  The cancer risk is there.  There is no treatment. No pills to take.  No break from the pain.  It just continues forever.  There are some treatments for symptoms, but that’s about it. The point I’m making is that it all seems rather overwhelming right now – especially when you are in the middle of some really bad outbreaks. But I want you to know that it is not the end of the world.  Believe me, it is NOT the end of the world.  I have never thought the worst of my lot in life during my herpes years – oh, got it from my first lover so have never known any sexual freedom. But this last diagnosis of lichen sclerosis has just about ended my ability to think about relationships again.  Talk about wanting to curl up and just go away.  But, as I did with all my other diseases, I will survive it and I will treat myself every day for the rest of my life and I will continue to live with it.  Oh joy. Take care, ar says… Thanks for the hopeful words, but this is now my 4th virus that I will have for life. I have the remnants of Herpes Varicella Zoster from when I was a kid. I have the Herpes Epstein Barr Virus from when I was 27, I have genital hpv from when I was about 32, and somewhere around that age and now I developed Genital Herpes Simplex. At least only 2 are contagious I think. My advice to you, Tom, is to stop trying to figure out who gave it to you. There are so many options, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. Having herpes sucks.  But as I’m learning, it is not the worst disease you could have.  Surprise!  There are much worse. Take care, ar

Response:

Hi Tom, I had a wacky astigmatism that made it impossible for me to wear contacts.  I ended up having lasik surgery.  What a trip that was!  I love not wearing glasses.  But I can’t believe I took such a chance with my eyes!! Take care, ar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am sorry to hear about all your illnesses, I probably have others that I don’t even know about. Then of course I am extremely nearsighted, but that’s not that bad as long as I wear my contacts. I am no toothpick myself, and always have a few extra lbs on me, but I don’t know if I have a thyroid problem. I do have mile arthritis, but that’s common I suppose. I guess I’ll just have to come to an understanding with it, and will be talking to my doctor in the very near future about taking valtrex. I’ll keep you all posted. Tom

Response:

Well I also know that herpes affects everyone differently, and knowing that I have had the outbreaks that I have been getting in the back area for 7-8 years (4-5 times a year), tells me that it is definitely viral and most likely a result of the genital HSV1 that showed up in the test. What ever is coming out all of a sudden in the front may or may not be herpes, even though it looks more like the classic blisters, the only weird thing is that it doesn’t get sore, just a little achy and pinchy. On the other hand, what has been going on in the back area doesn’t look like the classic blisters, but gets very sore and burning once the bumps break open. If I have another outbreak in the front with the blisters, then I’ll know if it is herpes also that was in remission or something, we’ll see. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To my understanding of the herpes virus, a picture that looks very similar to an outbreak would be like this: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/2161.htm All the other forms of  blisters, vesicles, bumps, etc may be acne, cuts and cracks or other skin related problems. Herpes simplex may be a contributor to such skin problems but indirectly, due to a stressed skin.

Response:

Hi Tom, Everyone’s body handles herpes in a different way.  There are people here who have oral outbreaks that don’t look anything like what a cold sore looks like. I have sometimes gotten a very painful and itchy, teeny, tiny, miniscule bump on the edge of my lip.  I think this has happened three times, perhaps?  I believe it to be an oral outbreak. But, the only way to know if what you are having is a herpes outbreak or not, is to see a doctor the minute it begins so the doctor can culture the bump, crack, split, sore, etc. ar

Response:

I am sorry to hear about all your illnesses, I probably have others that I don’t even know about. Then of course I am extremely nearsighted, but that’s not that bad as long as I wear my contacts. I am no toothpick myself, and always have a few extra lbs on me, but I don’t know if I have a thyroid problem. I do have mile arthritis, but that’s common I suppose. I guess I’ll just have to come to an understanding with it, and will be talking to my doctor in the very near future about taking valtrex. I’ll keep you all posted. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry, Tom, you are still in better shape than I am.  Since we are going to play this game:  :) Herpes 1 (so does most of the population) HPV (so does most of the population and since I’m female I have a higher risk of cancer because of it…unlike you) Epstein Barr (so does most of the population) Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (Look it up, it sucks) Thyroid disease (No matter how hard I diet and exercise, I will always have extra weight) Lichen Sclerosis – This one is terrible.  I’d rather have herpes than this.  Of course, I have both.  I would say, this has got to be 20 times worse than herpes.  The pain is worse.  The cancer risk is there.  There is no treatment. No pills to take.  No break from the pain.  It just continues forever. There are some treatments for symptoms, but that’s about it. The point I’m making is that it all seems rather overwhelming right now – especially when you are in the middle of some really bad outbreaks.  But I want you to know that it is not the end of the world.  Believe me, it is NOT the end of the world.  I have never thought the worst of my lot in life during my herpes years – oh, got it from my first lover so have never known any sexual freedom. But this last diagnosis of lichen sclerosis has just about ended my ability to think about relationships again.  Talk about wanting to curl up and just go away.  But, as I did with all my other diseases, I will survive it and I will treat myself every day for the rest of my life and I will continue to live with it.  Oh joy. Take care, ar says… Thanks for the hopeful words, but this is now my 4th virus that I will have for life. I have the remnants of Herpes Varicella Zoster from when I was a kid. I have the Herpes Epstein Barr Virus from when I was 27, I have genital hpv from when I was about 32, and somewhere around that age and now I developed Genital Herpes Simplex. At least only 2 are contagious I think. My advice to you, Tom, is to stop trying to figure out who gave it to you. There are so many options, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. Having herpes sucks.  But as I’m learning, it is not the worst disease you could have.  Surprise!  There are much worse. Take care, ar

Response:

Sorry, Tom, you are still in better shape than I am.  Since we are going to play this game:  :) Herpes 1 (so does most of the population) HPV (so does most of the population and since I’m female I have a higher risk of cancer because of it…unlike you) Epstein Barr (so does most of the population) Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (Look it up, it sucks) Thyroid disease (No matter how hard I diet and exercise, I will always have extra weight) Lichen Sclerosis – This one is terrible.  I’d rather have herpes than this.  Of course, I have both.  I would say, this has got to be 20 times worse than herpes.  The pain is worse.  The cancer risk is there.  There is no treatment. No pills to take.  No break from the pain.  It just continues forever.  There are some treatments for symptoms, but that’s about it. The point I’m making is that it all seems rather overwhelming right now – especially when you are in the middle of some really bad outbreaks.  But I want you to know that it is not the end of the world.  Believe me, it is NOT the end of the world.  I have never thought the worst of my lot in life during my herpes years – oh, got it from my first lover so have never known any sexual freedom. But this last diagnosis of lichen sclerosis has just about ended my ability to think about relationships again.  Talk about wanting to curl up and just go away.  But, as I did with all my other diseases, I will survive it and I will treat myself every day for the rest of my life and I will continue to live with it.  Oh joy. Take care, ar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the hopeful words, but this is now my 4th virus that I will have for life. I have the remnants of Herpes Varicella Zoster from when I was a kid. I have the Herpes Epstein Barr Virus from when I was 27, I have genital hpv from when I was about 32, and somewhere around that age and now I developed Genital Herpes Simplex. At least only 2 are contagious I think. My advice to you, Tom, is to stop trying to figure out who gave it to you. There are so many options, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. Having herpes sucks.  But as I’m learning, it is not the worst disease you could have.  Surprise!  There are much worse. Take care, ar

Response:

Thanks for the hopeful words, but this is now my 4th virus that I will have for life. I have the remnants of Herpes Varicella Zoster from when I was a kid. I have the Herpes Epstein Barr Virus from when I was 27, I have genital hpv from when I was about 32, and somewhere around that age and now I developed Genital Herpes Simplex. At least only 2 are contagious I think.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My advice to you, Tom, is to stop trying to figure out who gave it to you. There are so many options, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. Having herpes sucks.  But as I’m learning, it is not the worst disease you could have.  Surprise!  There are much worse. Take care, ar

Response:

My advice to you, Tom, is to stop trying to figure out who gave it to you. There are so many options, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. Having herpes sucks.  But as I’m learning, it is not the worst disease you could have.  Surprise!  There are much worse. Take care, ar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m just mad that I have this, because I still cant figure out who gave it to me. I have an idea it was my ex girlfriend, but I’m not 100% sure. Then I’m wondering if I got it from kissing someone and accidentally spread it to my privates myself, or was it from sex. I feel like it is going to take away my chances for getting into a good relationship. Now I have to tell everyone I meet about this. I just feel like its not fair that’s all. It was bad enough when I learned I had HPV back in my early thirties, now this… I told a girl I know about that I have herpes and she seemed okay with it at first and then later told me that she doesn’t want to be intimate with me because she doesn’t want to get it. Its just not going to be easy… if you would’ve been bothered with it in the first place, that would’ve meant that your herpes outbreaks were unnoticeable which is not the case as you keep reminding us.’ Then why so many worries? You have it, deal with it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I don’t really get to the point of a cracked lip. What happens occasionally is that my lips get chapped, dry and burn and feel itchy and tingly and then I get this pink swollen border around the top and bottom of the lips and also some occasional pimple or hives that are right near the lips, but not actual blisters on the lips. I guess it is possible it is related only because my body seems to handle genital herpes differently anyway. I get 3-4 reddish small patches of skin with ONE blister in each one only and that’s on the inner thigh area, and then in the back area near the buttocks they look more like hives or bumps that turn into sores later. Its funny also how two areas of the body (around and in the buttocks vs. the front inner thighs) can have different responses in terms of genital herpes. I guess since my outbreaks in the past were mild, it is safe to say anything oral I may have would be mild also. The buttock sores have been recurrent for 7 years, but the ones on the inner thighs are a first time from this past monster OB.

To my understanding of the herpes virus, a picture that looks very similar to an outbreak would be like this: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/2161.htm All the other forms of  blisters, vesicles, bumps, etc may be acne, cuts and cracks or other skin related problems. Herpes simplex may be a contributor to such skin problems but indirectly, due to a stressed skin. Time will tell wether the cuts that you see, Tom, (that you consider to be the remission of a herpes outbreak, if I may call it in this way), is a result of a direct herpes activity or not. Because, believe me, if you suffer from some chronic outbreaks, you will eventually find out sooner or later, as I did so, before. Nonetheless, after a couple of years of herpes viral activity(just to give you a time line) , the skin, as I’ve said before, may become susceptible to such cuts and cracks even without actual viral activity. Perl von Molson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, the related question would be: Well, if there is a metabolism or so problem that have caused the lip to crack, why no other area of our body has the same very problem? Is it just because the lip has been previously stressed over a long period of time by the virus and it has lost its elasticity of such properties as it should normally have? Perl von Molson

Response:

I’m just mad that I have this, because I still cant figure out who gave it to me. I have an idea it was my ex girlfriend, but I’m not 100% sure. Then I’m wondering if I got it from kissing someone and accidentally spread it to my privates myself, or was it from sex. I feel like it is going to take away my chances for getting into a good relationship. Now I have to tell everyone I meet about this. I just feel like its not fair that’s all. It was bad enough when I learned I had HPV back in my early thirties, now this… I told a girl I know about that I have herpes and she seemed okay with it at first and then later told me that she doesn’t want to be intimate with me because she doesn’t want to get it. Its just not going to be easy… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you would’ve been bothered with it in the first place, that would’ve meant that your herpes outbreaks were unnoticeable which is not the case as you keep reminding us.’ Then why so many worries? You have it, deal with it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I also know that herpes affects everyone differently, and knowing that I have had the outbreaks that I have been getting in the back area for 7-8 years (4-5 times a year), tells me that it is definitely viral and most likely a result of the genital HSV1 that showed up in the test. What ever is coming out all of a sudden in the front may or may not be herpes, even though it looks more like the classic blisters, the only weird thing is that it doesn’t get sore, just a little achy and pinchy. On the other hand, what has been going on in the back area doesn’t look like the classic blisters, but gets very sore and burning once the bumps break open. If I have another outbreak in the front with the blisters, then I’ll know if it is herpes also that was in remission or something, we’ll see.

Tom, the bottom line is, if you have herpes you’ll definitelly know it sooner or later; that is because if you would’ve been bothered with it in the first place, that would’ve meant that your herpes outbreaks were unnoticeable which is not the case as you keep reminding us.’ Then why so many worries? You have it, deal with it. Again, the fact that you seem to have dry skin, may be related indirectly with herpes; I cannot specifically explain why that may happen but I would consider trying to deal with the dryness of my skin (actually I do have the same problem at times, that is dry skin). One thing I can tell you that by using some of the treatments I’ve used will do: I’ve never gotten in years tingling and all those symptoms that most people get during a prodrome. The fact that I don’t have a problem any longer with herpes as I used to do 3 years ago, is due to some complex factors that I’ve dealt with all along this time. Herpes, indeed, seem to be a very complex disease, from different aspects, the virus itself and its way of activity and the treatments as well. It takes time and patience to understand what’s going on into your body, how the virus affects your body. Perl von Molson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To my understanding of the herpes virus, a picture that looks very similar to an outbreak would be like this: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/2161.htm All the other forms of  blisters, vesicles, bumps, etc may be acne, cuts and cracks or other skin related problems. Herpes simplex may be a contributor to such skin problems but indirectly, due to a stressed skin.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes as far as I know, only because the test showed the 0845 level next to IGG HSV1. I know just about all the symptoms are genital although I do get red, chapped lips alot and sometimes accompanied with hives and swelling around the lips, but not actual cold sores. Maybe I have oral and genital herpes, I guess that’s logical. Can a person with oral herpes just get mild symptoms and not really cold sores, just as a person can get mild blisters in the genital area?

I know exactly what are you talking about, I have experienced the same thing before; a cracked lip, with no follow-up as blisters or other herpes related. It is quite intriguing to try to establish the nature of such a skin symptom. Normally, a herpes outbreak, in special for a person that seems to suffer from chronic outbreaks (often such as once monthly or so) it would not happen that herpes to retreat and heal without blister formation or such. In my particular case, I do not fully develop anymore blisters and related due to the very fact that, like in a case like yours, a cracked lip, I would use one of my remedies and the crack would never further develop and the skin would "retreat" into a complete or so "self-seal". In conclusion, I really cannot say at this time wether or not a crack of the lip is caused by herpes or it is not. Important would be, if you can get to a point where (such as in my case) the only thing you’ll get would be a cracked lip and without any other follow-up. I currently trying to solve even this very problem of cracked lip; I suspect it may be related with the metabolism and it may be improved if not cured through a more apropriate diet. I have increased the ammount of tropical fruits in my diet but I seem to be a little sensitive about them, it kind of gives me ocassional stomac aches ( I have no idea why, maybe some are too acidic, like pineapple?) It would be quite nice to be able to understand all these processes that allow the lips to become cracked. Of course, the related question would be: Well, if there is a metabolism or so problem that have caused the lip to crack, why no other area of our body has the same very problem? Is it just because the lip has been previously stressed over a long period of time by the virus and it has lost its elasticity of such properties as it should normally have? Perl von Molson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tom, I think you have an oral infection as well.  You have type 1, right?  It is very likely that you have both a genital infection and an oral infection. ar Tom says… I am seeing my doctor in a little over a week, so I am going to ask him for antiviral meds believe me! I do feel considerably better, but still achy and run down feeling, so even if I don’t take them all the time, I could take them when I feel another outbreak coming, but we’ll see what the doctor says. Maybe I do have both but never really got cold sores, just the tingling chapped lips and the swollen outer edge…at this point I am disgusted, and very anxious to go to the doctor and tell him the whole story. I’ll keep you all posted. Tom posted: Since this outbreak has been going on I noticed some dry skin on the backs of my hands and also very chapped lips that are burning and tingling sometimes and I use chap stick on them, but it hasn’t been helping really. I don’t see any cold on my lips, but I do occasionally get hive like things right next to my lips and the outer borders of my lips has this pink looking swollen skin area. Any ideas? Thanks, Tom Genital herpes can’t cause chapped lips (except possibly in a very roundabout way that might be entirely peculiar to your personal circumstances) , but oral herpes can.  Or it could be something else. Documented cases of oral HSV2 are said to occur either never or very rarely.  With all the other luck you’re having, maybe you’re having that, too. I continue to think that one of the prescribed anti-viral meds are your best bet. Take care, Mike

Response:

Well I don’t really get to the point of a cracked lip. What happens occasionally is that my lips get chapped, dry and burn and feel itchy and tingly and then I get this pink swollen border around the top and bottom of the lips and also some occasional pimple or hives that are right near the lips, but not actual blisters on the lips. I guess it is possible it is related only because my body seems to handle genital herpes differently anyway. I get 3-4 reddish small patches of skin with ONE blister in each one only and that’s on the inner thigh area, and then in the back area near the buttocks they look more like hives or bumps that turn into sores later. Its funny also how two areas of the body (around and in the buttocks vs. the front inner thighs) can have different responses in terms of genital herpes. I guess since my outbreaks in the past were mild, it is safe to say anything oral I may have would be mild also. The buttock sores have been recurrent for 7 years, but the ones on the inner thighs are a first time from this past monster OB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, the related question would be: Well, if there is a metabolism or so problem that have caused the lip to crack, why no other area of our body has the same very problem? Is it just because the lip has been previously stressed over a long period of time by the virus and it has lost its elasticity of such properties as it should normally have? Perl von Molson

Response:

Yes as far as I know, only because the test showed the 0845 level next to IGG HSV1. I know just about all the symptoms are genital although I do get red, chapped lips alot and sometimes accompanied with hives and swelling around the lips, but not actual cold sores. Maybe I have oral and genital herpes, I guess that’s logical. Can a person with oral herpes just get mild symptoms and not really cold sores, just as a person can get mild blisters in the genital area?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tom, I think you have an oral infection as well.  You have type 1, right?  It is very likely that you have both a genital infection and an oral infection. ar says… I am seeing my doctor in a little over a week, so I am going to ask him for antiviral meds believe me! I do feel considerably better, but still achy and run down feeling, so even if I don’t take them all the time, I could take them when I feel another outbreak coming, but we’ll see what the doctor says. Maybe I do have both but never really got cold sores, just the tingling chapped lips and the swollen outer edge…at this point I am disgusted, and very anxious to go to the doctor and tell him the whole story. I’ll keep you all posted. Tom Since this outbreak has been going on I noticed some dry skin on the backs of my hands and also very chapped lips that are burning and tingling sometimes and I use chap stick on them, but it hasn’t been helping really. I don’t see any cold on my lips, but I do occasionally get hive like things right next to my lips and the outer borders of my lips has this pink looking swollen skin area. Any ideas? Thanks, Tom Genital herpes can’t cause chapped lips (except possibly in a very roundabout way that might be entirely peculiar to your personal circumstances) , but oral herpes can.  Or it could be something else. Documented cases of oral HSV2 are said to occur either never or very rarely.  With all the other luck you’re having, maybe you’re having that, too. I continue to think that one of the prescribed anti-viral meds are your best bet. Take care, Mike

Response:

Hi Tom, I think you have an oral infection as well.  You have type 1, right?  It is very likely that you have both a genital infection and an oral infection. ar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am seeing my doctor in a little over a week, so I am going to ask him for antiviral meds believe me! I do feel considerably better, but still achy and run down feeling, so even if I don’t take them all the time, I could take them when I feel another outbreak coming, but we’ll see what the doctor says. Maybe I do have both but never really got cold sores, just the tingling chapped lips and the swollen outer edge…at this point I am disgusted, and very anxious to go to the doctor and tell him the whole story. I’ll keep you all posted. Tom Since this outbreak has been going on I noticed some dry skin on the backs of my hands and also very chapped lips that are burning and tingling sometimes and I use chap stick on them, but it hasn’t been helping really. I don’t see any cold on my lips, but I do occasionally get hive like things right next to my lips and the outer borders of my lips has this pink looking swollen skin area. Any ideas? Thanks, Tom Genital herpes can’t cause chapped lips (except possibly in a very roundabout way that might be entirely peculiar to your personal circumstances) , but oral herpes can.  Or it could be something else. Documented cases of oral HSV2 are said to occur either never or very rarely.  With all the other luck you’re having, maybe you’re having that, too. I continue to think that one of the prescribed anti-viral meds are your best bet. Take care, Mike

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — The Doctor of Natural Medicine designation is granted to practitioners who have demonstrated competence in these areas and who have fulfilled at least 4,000 hours of post-graduate study in natural medicine. As previously mentioned, this amounts to about 100 years of full-time (fall, spring, and summer) study at the usual undergraduate rate of 16 hours per regular semester. Graduate programs usually run about half that, so for a graduate program this 4000 hours would amount to about 200 years of study. That’s why a doctor of natural medicine is the most qualified health practitioner in our society. As for your arithmatic assumptions. They are quite silly. First 16 hours per semester is exactly why physicians don’t know about many things. I will offer that a year of study for a "healer" would be something like thiss. 40 hours per week X say 45 weeks equals 1800 hours. That would take about 2  1/2 years to accumulate 4000 hours. This illustrates two things. Physicians only take (by your math) 64 hours X 10 years equals 640 TOTAL hours of study. No wonder they maim and kill people. The second thing is you obviously can’t do basic arithmetic. < snicker…tee hee Pssst…Dave, D.C.’s "math" was making fun of your ignorance of how credit hours are earned in institutions of higher education. In this post, you took the bait, and made an even bigger fool of yourself. You obviously have never been to college. Did you even graduate high school? –Rich

BINGO!

Response:

The Doctor of Natural Medicine designation is granted to practitioners who have demonstrated competence in these areas and who have fulfilled at least 4,000 hours of post-graduate study in natural medicine. As previously mentioned, this amounts to about 100 years of full-time (fall, spring, and summer) study at the usual undergraduate rate of 16 hours per regular semester. Graduate programs usually run about half that, so for a graduate program this 4000 hours would amount to about 200 years of study.

That’s why a doctor of natural medicine is the most qualified health practitioner in our society. As for your arithmatic assumptions. They are quite silly. First 16 hours per semester is exactly why physicians don’t know about many things. I will offer that a year of study for a "healer" would be something like thiss. 40 hours per week X say 45 weeks equals 1800 hours. That would take about 2  1/2 years to accumulate 4000 hours. This illustrates two things. Physicians only take (by your math) 64 hours X 10 years equals 640 TOTAL hours of study. No wonder they maim and kill people. The second thing is you obviously can’t do basic arithmetic.

Response:

Probably taught martial arts and granted himself the black belts too – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dr. Schulze is one of the foremost authorities in the world on natural healing and herbal medicine. He holds a Doctorate in Herbology from the School of Natural Healing funny that he lists this great "dr shultz school of natural healing" as the source of this "doctorate"…..that is truly funny….he founded a two bit school,,then gave himself a doctorate!! and a Doctorate in Natural Medicine. oh…one of thosee matchbook cover "schools".. . Dr. Schulze also holds a degree in Herbal Pharmacy and degrees in Iridology. He is certified in eight different styles of " body therapy" there are NO such degrees…unless of course he also founded schools to grant them to him and has three black belts in the martial arts. oh well…that surely qualifies him as a "healer" A tad more than magic. now..still magic…reading his site advertising cleanses and detoxes….all magic..thought we had explained all that nonsense to you Janny sometimes it truly amazes me that you would NOT be able to evaluate the legitimacy of such claims of holding "two doctorates"..both  from sham "schools".. yikes… hawki

Response:

undergraduate rate of 16 hours per regular semester.

again Davey displays his ignorance of all things collegiate.. 16 hours means 16 CREDIT hours….each credit hours is usually a 3 hour class PER week (not 16 hours per week)…. plus university study states you must plan on spending 3 hours of study per 1 hour of credit….writing papers,,clinicals,,studying for exams.. ergo…16 credit hours per semester amounts  to spending 16 hours per week in a classroom or lab,,,plus 3 x 16 preparing for said class or 48 hours per week outside of class.. Physicians only take (by your math) 64 hours X 10 years equals 640 TOTAL hours of study.

that is such total Davey mislogic.. The second thing is you obviously can’t do basic arithmetic.

and you obviously have NO clue as to how  to figure the time allotment of CREDIT hours,,,vs YOUR actual hours… so now you admit that this "doctorate" can be had in 4000 actual hours or 2 1/5….why even a master’s degree is tuf to finish in that time frame…what with thesis writing requirements which are NOT included in the hours what a moron hawki

Response:

–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Doctor of Natural Medicine designation is granted to practitioners who have demonstrated competence in these areas and who have fulfilled at least 4,000 hours of post-graduate study in natural medicine. As previously mentioned, this amounts to about 100 years of full-time (fall, spring, and summer) study at the usual undergraduate rate of 16 hours per regular semester. Graduate programs usually run about half that, so for a graduate program this 4000 hours would amount to about 200 years of study. That’s why a doctor of natural medicine is the most qualified health practitioner in our society. As for your arithmatic assumptions. They are quite silly. First 16 hours per semester is exactly why physicians don’t know about many things. I will offer that a year of study for a "healer" would be something like thiss. 40 hours per week X say 45 weeks equals 1800 hours. That would take about 2  1/2 years to accumulate 4000 hours. This illustrates two things. Physicians only take (by your math) 64 hours X 10 years equals 640 TOTAL hours of study. No wonder they maim and kill people. The second thing is you obviously can’t do basic arithmetic.

< snicker…tee hee Pssst…Dave, D.C.’s "math" was making fun of your ignorance of how credit hours are earned in institutions of higher education. In this post, you took the bait, and made an even bigger fool of yourself. You obviously have never been to college. Did you even graduate high school? –Rich

Response:

Let me be very clear for you. http://www.boardofnaturalmedicine.com/certificate.htm

glow worm Davey I believe more than one of us has asked you "what accredited certifying bodies" have certified the "doctorates of nothing" reading this site had me LOL…but a crock… there ARE no certifiying bodies…no criteria for testing,,boards,,etc…NOT given by each "matchbox address".. this may be the way it is done in Ontario.. here we require graduation from accredited universities..and licenses from state certfied boards.. one cannot simply put their name on a door …like the great Dr Shultze… he is a sham…like you are a scammer hawki

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No, according to him, he heals everyone, just about by magic. Dr. Schulze is one of the foremost authorities in the world on natural healing and herbal medicine. He holds a Doctorate in Herbology from the School of Natural Healing and a Doctorate in Natural Medicine. Dr. Schulze also holds a degree in Herbal Pharmacy and degrees in Iridology. He is certified in eight different styles of " body therapy" and has three black belts in the martial arts. Dr. Schulze has written numerous research papers on the topics of Botanical Pharmacognosy, Pharmacology and the making of herbal preparations. A tad more than magic.

Interesting process here.  Jan refers to various degrees as proof that Schulze must be right.  IIRC this is the same Jan who has held in the past that college degrees not only don’t lend credibility but just the opposite. — | "Really, I’m not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a | | completely unintentional side effect. " — Linus Torvalds      |

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The Doctor of Natural Medicine designation is granted to practitioners who have demonstrated competence in these areas and who have fulfilled at least 4,000 hours of post-graduate study in natural medicine.

As previously mentioned, this amounts to about 100 years of full-time (fall, spring, and summer) study at the usual undergraduate rate of 16 hours per regular semester. Graduate programs usually run about half that, so for a graduate program this 4000 hours would amount to about 200 years of study. — | "Really, I’m not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a | | completely unintentional side effect. " — Linus Torvalds      |

Response:

You couldn’t even qualify to apply Doctor of Natural Medicine Prerequisites A Bachelor degree from this University or from an approved educational institution. This may be obtained

hmmm….so I have a bachelolor’s degree AND a master’s degree from an approved (read accredited) educational institution….. the great Dr Schultz OF course lists HIS bachelor’s from HIS school…hmmmm good trick.. minimum of 2.0….lol lol lol actually I had a 3.96 from grad school… say again?? Doctor of Natural Medicine (N.M.D.) Required Core: 60-70 Credits

hmmm a nurse can complete these 60 credits in two years…so how does the great doc get a "doctorate" in two years?? btw…bachelors degrees are 120 credits..masters are 36+ and a doctorate at least another 60….hmmm adds up to 216 credits…so how again does he finish a "doctorate of natural medicince" in the mentioned 60-70 credits?? he can’t….what he has is slightly more than a bachelors… btw…any way you add up…the numbers don’t…guess they are like you..and just make up things as they go.. care to give the educational certifying bodies that these great schools are accredited by?? or did he make that up too?? hawki

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You couldn’t even qualify to apply Doctor of Natural Medicine Prerequisites A Bachelor degree from this University or from an approved educational institution. This may be obtained hmmm….so I have a bachelolor’s degree AND a master’s degree from an approved (read accredited) educational institution….. the great Dr Schultz OF course lists HIS bachelor’s from HIS school…hmmmm good trick.. minimum of 2.0….lol lol lol actually I had a 3.96 from grad school… say again?? Doctor of Natural Medicine (N.M.D.) Required Core: 60-70 Credits hmmm a nurse can complete these 60 credits in two years…so how does the great doc get a "doctorate" in two years??

Way smarter? You have misunderstood the qualifications. Oh that’s unusual! You could not qualify for a doctor of natural medicine . You can’t even qualify to practice nursing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – btw…bachelors degrees are 120 credits..masters are 36+ and a doctorate at least another 60….hmmm adds up to 216 credits…so how again does he finish a "doctorate of natural medicince" in the mentioned 60-70 credits?? he can’t….what he has is slightly more than a bachelors… btw…any way you add up…the numbers don’t…guess they are like you..and just make up things as they go.. care to give the educational certifying bodies that these great schools are accredited by?? or did he make that up too?? hawki

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hmmm….so I have a bachelolor’s degree AND a master’s degree from an approved (read accredited) educational institution…..

Let me be very clear for you. http://www.boardofnaturalmedicine.com/certificate.htm A Doctor of Natural Medicine (D.N.M.) – acquired medical academia represents the ultimate combined knowledge of Eastern and Western Medicine and Therapies. A Doctor of Natural Medicine treats illness and practices preventive medicine by utilizing: Manual Medicine, Nutrition and Botanical Medicine, Acupuncture and Eastern Medicine, and Homeopathic Medicine. The Doctor of Natural Medicine designation is granted to practitioners who have demonstrated competence in these areas and who have fulfilled at least 4,000 hours of post-graduate study in natural medicine.  This Doctor of Natural Medicine designation maybe obtained under one of the following categories: Category #1  Successful completion of 4000 hours of study & externship  in: Naturotherapy 1000 hours Eastern Medicine 1000 hours Manual Therapy 1000 hours Homeopathic Medicine 500 hours Botanical Medicine 500 hours Externship or Experience 400 hours The individuals in this category must be graduates of a resource school that is recognized by the EBNMP. The teachers instructing the above courses must have at least five years of experience and formal training as a Natural Health Practitioner. Prerequisite for admittance to these courses is a minimum of first year university credit in Human Biology and Chemistry. Category #2 Foreign-trained Doctors whose past training curriculum equals 4,000 hours or whose combined training and years of experience amounts to at least 4,000 hours. Doctors in this category include Naturopaths, Homeopaths, Medical Doctors or Traditional Chinese Medical Doctors. Individuals may be required to take a challenge examination. Category #3 Grand-fathering Doctors: Medical Doctors, Chiropractors, Dentists, Osteopaths, etc. who have been practicing Natural Medicine to complement their conventional treatment and who have accumulated at least 1,000 hours of training and experience in at least two areas of Natural Medicine. Individuals who do not fall into one of the above categories are also encouraged to submit an application to the EBNMP for assessment. In some cases passing a challenge exam may attain qualification. Like I said, you don’t have the qualifications.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — This site deals with healing, not medicine. http://www.whale.to/c/shulze.html This man doesn’t even use ginseng. HooHa! First Tim Bolen, and now whale.to! You don’t really care from what unreliable source you get your fallacious information, do you? Not that it matters, because any information you find goes directly from cut to paste without passing through your brain and disturbing any neurons. Well, lets compare. Dr. Schulze is a doctor twice over,  has been published in medical journals.

Name one.  I’ll wait.  I just looked him up in Medline — zip.  So, you’re lying again.  Not a big surprise, really.   Your qualifications?  Quackwatch clerk. It seems to me that I’d listen to what he has to say. You? Flushhhhh.

Of course you would, Spammin’ Dave.  We’re just trying to discourage anyone from following your crack-brained example.   — David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.        "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants            were standing on my shoulders."  (Hal Abelson, MIT)

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University of Natural Medicine P.O. Box 4069 Santa Fe, NM USA 87502 (505) 424-7800 Fax (505) 424-7878

I just looked at their web site.  I didn’t see anything about this being an accredited institution.  Such institutions usually do mention the fact.   — David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.        "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants            were standing on my shoulders."  (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Response:

Dr. Schulze is one of the foremost authorities in the world on natural healing and herbal medicine.

Who says that ? Jan Drew is a naturopath mafia advertizing agency and as such has no credibility. Regards, Aribert Deckers —                     POLICE – POLIZEI – POLITIE – POLICIA                   http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amapolis.htm

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Dr. Schulze is one of the foremost authorities in the world on natural healing and herbal medicine. Who says that ? Jan Drew is a naturopath mafia advertizing agency and as such has no credibility.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, we enjoyed your view, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You couldn’t even qualify to apply. Then look at  all you’d ave to learn. Doctor of Natural Medicine Prerequisites A Bachelor degree from this University or from an approved educational institution. This may be obtained either through the University or an approved institution. Prerequisites include: Biology (may include Zoology, Anatomy, Physiology, Cell or Microbiology), General Chemistry (may include Inorganic Chemistry). The following courses are encouraged: Organic Chemistry, college level Math courses (Algebra, Pre-Calculus, Calculus, or Statistics), and Psychology. Deficiencies in prerequisite preparation can be remedied by specified additional

ahhhh..you say I don’t have the prereqs?? surely you know nothing about master’s degrees from hawki

Response:

This site deals with healing, not medicine. http://www.whale.to/c/shulze.html This man doesn’t even use ginseng. No, according to him, he heals everyone, just about by magic.

Beautiful! The ultimate expression of ignorance and bafflement is, its magic, the other one is, its a miracle. LOL

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — This site deals with healing, not medicine. http://www.whale.to/c/shulze.html This man doesn’t even use ginseng. HooHa! First Tim Bolen, and now whale.to! You don’t really care from what unreliable source you get your fallacious information, do you? Not that it matters, because any information you find goes directly from cut to paste without passing through your brain and disturbing any neurons. –Rich

Well, lets compare. Dr. Schulze is a doctor twice over,  has been published in medical journals. Your qualifications?  Quackwatch clerk. It seems to me that I’d listen to what he has to say. You? Flushhhhh.

Response:

Dr. Schulze is one of the foremost authorities in the world on natural healing and herbal medicine. He holds a Doctorate in Herbology from the School of Natural Healing

funny that he lists this great "dr shultz school of natural healing" as the source of this "doctorate"…..that is truly funny….he founded a two bit school,,then gave himself a doctorate!! and a Doctorate in Natural Medicine.

oh…one of thosee matchbook cover "schools".. . Dr. Schulze also holds a degree in Herbal Pharmacy and degrees in Iridology. He is certified in eight different styles of " body therapy"

there are NO such degrees…unless of course he also founded schools to grant them to him and has three black belts in the martial arts.

oh well…that surely qualifies him as a "healer" A tad more than magic.

now..still magic…reading his site advertising cleanses and detoxes….all magic..thought we had explained all that nonsense to you Janny sometimes it truly amazes me that you would NOT be able to evaluate the legitimacy of such claims of holding "two doctorates"..both  from sham "schools".. yikes… hawki

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Well, lets compare. Dr. Schulze is a doctor twice over,

no Davey…..he has two pieces of paper on his wall …he never went to medical school..did a residency..or is licensed to practice medicine.. "doctorate of natural healing"….what a crock..granted by a school with HIS name on the door…..if there is a door.. hawki

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dr. Schulze is one of the foremost authorities in the world on natural healing and herbal medicine. He holds a Doctorate in Herbology from the School of Natural Healing funny that he lists this great "dr shultz school of natural healing" as the source of this "doctorate"…..that is truly funny….he founded a two bit school,,then gave himself a doctorate!! and a Doctorate in Natural Medicine. oh…one of thosee matchbook cover "schools".. . Dr. Schulze also holds a degree in Herbal Pharmacy and degrees in Iridology. He is certified in eight different styles of " body therapy" there are NO such degrees…unless of course he also founded schools to grant them to him and has three black belts in the martial arts. oh well…that surely qualifies him as a "healer" A tad more than magic. now..still magic…reading his site advertising cleanses and detoxes….all magic..thought we had explained all that nonsense to you Janny sometimes it truly amazes me that you would NOT be able to evaluate the legitimacy of such claims of holding "two doctorates"..both  from sham "schools".. yikes…

 hawki You couldn’t even qualify to apply. Then look at  all you’d ave to learn. Doctor of Natural Medicine Prerequisites A Bachelor degree from this University or from an approved educational institution. This may be obtained either through the University or an approved institution. Prerequisites include: Biology (may include Zoology, Anatomy, Physiology, Cell or Microbiology), General Chemistry (may include Inorganic Chemistry). The following courses are encouraged: Organic Chemistry, college level Math courses (Algebra, Pre-Calculus, Calculus, or Statistics), and Psychology. Deficiencies in prerequisite preparation can be remedied by specified additional preparation as outlined in Special Admissions Provision. The student must have been in good standing at the previous college or university attended and earned a minimum grade point average of 2.0 (on a 4 point scale) in all upper division work. If the student has attended a school that does not assign a 4 point grading scale, the student must submit an equivalent evaluation of his/her prior academic work. Doctor of Natural Medicine (N.M.D.) Required Core: 60-70 Credits Module I  Credits SCI 308  Human Anatomy & Physiology I  4 SCI 401 Clinical Biochemistry  4 NUT 304  Clinical Nutrition  4 HM 305  Homeopathy I  4 SCI 405  Histology  3 Module II SCI 408  Pathology I  5 SCI 410  Microbiology & Parasitology  4 SCI 520  Immunology 2 NM 503  Physical Examination & Diagnosis 4 NM 307  Tissue Mineral & Hair Analysis  3 Module III SCI 418  Blood Chemistry & Urine Analysis  4 NM 408  Internal Cleansing  4 NM 303  Botanical Medicine I  5 or NM 509 Herbal Studies 20 NUT 448 Nutritional Assessment and Counseling 3 NM 402  Naturopathic Practice I  4 Module IV NM 505  Functional Medicine  4 NM 504  Medical Laboratory Analysis 4 PHM 608 Pharmacology & Toxicology 2 NM 311  Gastroenterology I & Colon Therapy  4 NM 309 Toxicology/Detoxification 3  Suggested Electives:(Requirements for ND) Module V PT 407  Physiotherapeutic Modalities  3 NM 405  Urine & Saliva Analysis  3 NM 401  Naturopathy: History & Practice  2 SCI 308L  Human Anatomy & Physiology Lab  2 SCI 317 Elemental Chemistry 3 SCI 414  Epidemiology/Public Health  2 SCI 310  Embryology  3 Module VI HM 500  Homeopathy II (Diploma) 8 or HM 505  Homotoxicology (Diploma) 5 PSY 401  Introduction to Counseling 3 or PSY 444  Introduction to Applied Counseling 4 NM 406  Naturopathic Manipulations I 3 IR 400  Iridology I (Diploma)  5 Module VII NUT 412 Cell Nutrition/Oligo & Trace Elements  3 NM 502  Naturopathic Practice II  4 NM 506  Naturopathic Manipulations II  4 NM 518  Gynecology & Naturop. Women

Question:

Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Good question Henry.  I think that a lot of people may turn to booze to alleviate their misery; others may turn to drugs, or become so badly depressed that they get into some domestic or public trouble from which they cannot escape.  Some may recover, or recover only to have depression return, and at its worst, many try and succeed in killing themselves.  It would be nice to have statistics on this. Squiggles

Response:

Hi henry and Welcome to the ng, Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right?

It can as the quaility of your life is poor at best. Can you hide depression???

Not if it is severe. How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs?

Cognitive behavior Therapy (CBT) see http://www.cognitivetherapy.com/basics.html Good nutrition:         Eliminate alcohol, illegal mind altering drugs, sugar laden food Aerobic activity for 30 min daily….nonstop activity Meditation Yoga Adequate sleep 7-8 hours a night Reaching out to others It is best to consult a psychiatrist who can evaluate you. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Hi Lynda,     Sorry to barge in on this thread, but you made reference to something that might be of help beyond the treatment of depression.  I am finding that I can select at will, for good or ill, the insider that dominates.  Since the fundamental insider shows the greatest response to the medication I take, as well as having a sense of self I try to "move" to that insider. How could I use meditation is a positive way to strengthen this ability?     Bear in mind that if I meditate the wrong way I self-hypnotize and end up in a bigger mess than I’m in now. Thanks, Peter and the jumping clowns

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi henry and Welcome to the ng, Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? It can as the quaility of your life is poor at best. Can you hide depression??? Not if it is severe. How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Cognitive behavior Therapy (CBT) see http://www.cognitivetherapy.com/basics.html Good nutrition:         Eliminate alcohol, illegal mind altering drugs, sugar laden food Aerobic activity for 30 min daily….nonstop activity Meditation Yoga Adequate sleep 7-8 hours a night Reaching out to others It is best to consult a psychiatrist who can evaluate you. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Hi Henry. I believe I have suffered from depression for most of my life. I have just lived with it.  It has not been strong enough to stop me surviving. It has not been strong enough to stop me achieving goals. It has been strong enough to destroy much of my happiness. It has been strong enough to stop me realising my potential as a person. If you want to stop surviving and start living, I think the illness of depression needs to be recognised and dealt with. Exactly what "dealt with" means, is probably different for everyone. Keep an open mind, and take one step at a time. Peace, Bruce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

hello Henry… here is an interesting thought. I have been on this NG for a couple of weeks now. What I can tell, from the posts is that it seems many of us are intelligent. I always find that interesting – people suffering from BP or depression tend to be highly intelligent. I do a fair bit of business analysis writing at my job, and I can tell by how folks write on this NG, that there are some pretty "together" folks here. My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. So, in acting, is it possible that by transforming the "real" you, and stepping into other shoes that you leave the depressed person behind? I am not talking multiple personality here… I am indicating an almost hypnotic way of leaving the depression. hugs, Compucat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

Hey Henry, Interesting question… I think that without working on it/seeking treatment/assistance in some way, depression can really interfere with your life… I know that for me, I hid it for a long time, but it stopped me from doing a lot of things, and led to several suicide attempts. In terms of dealing with depression without drugs, here’s some things that I found helped me: talking: not all shrinks will be gung-ho on prescribing medication, believe it or not. and there are always counsellors, pastors, and other people who can listen. actually, I used to write to the Samaritans (anonymous email) when things got really bad. Also posting to newsgroups and sharing with others online can be pretty therapeutic. : ) yoga/exercise treating myself – even if it’s just 1/2 hour to drink a latte and read a trashy novel. and I have always found that personally, nothing is quite so horrible that washing my hair will not make me feel at least a tiny bit better. that could just be me, though. keeping a journal- good place to vent. no one ever has to read it, not even you. eating healthy, getting enough sleep – often the hardest one for me. meditation doing things you like to do – see above, "treating yourself" i have also known some people who found solace in spirituality/prayer. also, for me, acknowledging that sometimes i just need time alone to sit down and be by myself and figure stuff out. it’s ok to not want to put on "the act" all the time. it’s exhausting to do that! anyway, i’m sure that lots of people here have tons of good suggestions on different ways to cope with depression. take care, cate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Henry. I believe I have suffered from depression for most of my life. I have just lived with it.  It has not been strong enough to stop me surviving. It has not been strong enough to stop me achieving goals. It has been strong enough to destroy much of my happiness. It has been strong enough to stop me realising my potential as a person. If you want to stop surviving and start living, I think the illness of depression needs to be recognised and dealt with. Exactly what "dealt with" means, is probably different for everyone. Keep an open mind, and take one step at a time. Peace, Bruce Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

This thread reminded me of a friend of my husband’s family circle, who became depressed (possibly because he was withdrawing from, or on drugs/ or could have taken drugs because he was depressed.  Anyway, this poor young guy killed himself in pretty gruesome manner.  I still remember him because he painted our apartment near the time of his death, and he was really a very nice guy.  I recall how speedy he was at that time and how he kept running out to get something, and insisted on painting the place in 24 hours. He may have been doing cocaine and then crashed. Just another thing to remember about depression – that it can be related to drugs, even prescription drugs coming off them – like benzos – that I know from experience. Squiggles

Response:

um ya sounds familiar eek a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.manic hello Henry… here is an interesting thought. I have been on this NG for a couple of weeks now. What I can tell, from the posts is that it seems many of us are intelligent. I always find that interesting – people suffering from BP or depression tend to be highly intelligent. I do a fair bit of business analysis writing at my job, and I can tell by how folks write on this NG, that there are some pretty "together" folks here. My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. So, in acting, is it possible that by transforming the "real" you, and stepping into other shoes that you leave the depressed person behind? I am not talking multiple personality here… I am indicating an almost hypnotic way of leaving the depression. hugs, Compucat Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

i don’t know … i think i’d be dead if i hadn’t gotten help… hmmm lex – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.manic Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress.

You are describing my life.  As long as I can remember.  As a child both of my parents were alcoholics.  There were many bad situations.  I was trained to lie and cover up things they did.  If something bad happened one night, well, the next day it never happened.  Only I still hurt from it.  And I still do.  My mother was suicidal.  But whenever she tried to kill herself by the next day it never happened.  Even if she was in the hospital, there was always some excuse.  I was never allowed to talk about it.  I was not like other children – I couldn’t be – my life was too different.  But to survive I had to act like them.  I would watch them and try and copy what they did or how they acted.  I was never me because the me was from a bad place and that couldn’t be mentioned.  So I acted.  I still do.  It is my survival.  The only way I can function around others is to put on an act – to be what I am not.  I hate it. Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello Henry… here is an interesting thought. I have been on this NG for a couple of weeks now. What I can tell, from the posts is that it seems many of us are intelligent. I always find that interesting – people suffering from BP or depression tend to be highly intelligent. I do a fair bit of business analysis writing at my job, and I can tell by how folks write on this NG, that there are some pretty "together" folks here. My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. So, in acting, is it possible that by transforming the "real" you, and stepping into other shoes that you leave the depressed person behind? I am not talking multiple personality here… I am indicating an almost hypnotic way of leaving the depression. hugs, Compucat Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

I recognise myself in that. I act too because that was part of survival when I was a child. And now I don’t know how NOT to act. There’s no *me* to be when not acting so to speak. Very scary. {{{{{Bonnie}}}}} Hugs, TK "forgottenmuse" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. You are describing my life.  As long as I can remember.  As a child both of my parents were alcoholics.  There were many bad situations.  I was trained to lie and cover up things they did.  If something bad happened one night, well, the next day it never happened.  Only I still hurt from it.  And I still do.  My mother was suicidal.  But whenever she tried to kill herself by the next day it never happened.  Even if she was in the hospital, there was always some excuse.  I was never allowed to talk about it.  I was not like other children – I couldn’t be – my life was too different.  But to survive I had to act like them.  I would watch them and try and copy what they did or how they acted.  I was never me because the me was from a bad place and that couldn’t be mentioned.  So I acted.  I still do.  It is my survival.  The only way I can function around others is to put on an act – to be what I am not.  I hate it. Bonnie hello Henry… here is an interesting thought. I have been on this NG for a couple of weeks now. What I can tell, from the posts is that it seems many of us are intelligent. I always find that interesting – people suffering from BP or depression tend to be highly intelligent. I do a fair bit of business analysis writing at my job, and I can tell by how folks write on this NG, that there are some pretty "together" folks here. My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. So, in acting, is it possible that by transforming the "real" you, and stepping into other shoes that you leave the depressed person behind? I am not talking multiple personality here… I am indicating an almost hypnotic way of leaving the depression. hugs, Compucat Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

thanks TK, hugs back ((((((((((TK)))))))))) Bonnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recognise myself in that. I act too because that was part of survival when I was a child. And now I don’t know how NOT to act. There’s no *me* to be when not acting so to speak. Very scary. {{{{{Bonnie}}}}} Hugs, TK "forgottenmuse" wrote My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. You are describing my life.  As long as I can remember.  As a child both of my parents were alcoholics.  There were many bad situations.  I was trained to lie and cover up things they did.  If something bad happened one night, well, the next day it never happened.  Only I still hurt from it.  And I still do.  My mother was suicidal.  But whenever she tried to kill herself by the next day it never happened.  Even if she was in the hospital, there was always some excuse.  I was never allowed to talk about it.  I was not like other children – I couldn’t be – my life was too different.  But to survive I had to act like them.  I would watch them and try and copy what they did or how they acted.  I was never me because the me was from a bad place and that couldn’t be mentioned.  So I acted.  I still do.  It is my survival.  The only way I can function around others is to put on an act – to be what I am not.  I hate it. Bonnie hello Henry… here is an interesting thought. I have been on this NG for a couple of weeks now. What I can tell, from the posts is that it seems many of us are intelligent. I always find that interesting – people suffering from BP or depression tend to be highly intelligent. I do a fair bit of business analysis writing at my job, and I can tell by how folks write on this NG, that there are some pretty "together" folks here. My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. So, in acting, is it possible that by transforming the "real" you, and stepping into other shoes that you leave the depressed person behind? I am not talking multiple personality here… I am indicating an almost hypnotic way of leaving the depression. hugs, Compucat Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

I do it all the time I have a great job make good money and sit on the couch with a gun and a hollow point in the chamber but know one would ever know.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello Henry… here is an interesting thought. I have been on this NG for a couple of weeks now. What I can tell, from the posts is that it seems many of us are intelligent. I always find that interesting – people suffering from BP or depression tend to be highly intelligent. I do a fair bit of business analysis writing at my job, and I can tell by how folks write on this NG, that there are some pretty "together" folks here. My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. So, in acting, is it possible that by transforming the "real" you, and stepping into other shoes that you leave the depressed person behind? I am not talking multiple personality here… I am indicating an almost hypnotic way of leaving the depression. hugs, Compucat Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

Now *we* know. {{{{{{{Richard}}}}}}} {{{{{{{Richard}}}}}}} {{{{{{{Richard}}}}}}} {{{{{{{Richard}}}}}}} TK "Richard Taylor" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do it all the time I have a great job make good money and sit on the couch with a gun and a hollow point in the chamber but know one would ever know. "Compucat" wrote hello Henry… here is an interesting thought. I have been on this NG for a couple of weeks now. What I can tell, from the posts is that it seems many of us are intelligent. I always find that interesting – people suffering from BP or depression tend to be highly intelligent. I do a fair bit of business analysis writing at my job, and I can tell by how folks write on this NG, that there are some pretty "together" folks here. My sis and I dealt with depression right from childhood. Yes, perhaps at that time it was not debilitating enough to take us "out of the game", but we found that because we had to survive in a world where other kids were doing fine, we learned how to "act" fine. Boy did we ever. I am talking about Academy Award performances… anyone else do this? I should have been an actress. So, in acting, is it possible that by transforming the "real" you, and stepping into other shoes that you leave the depressed person behind? I am not talking multiple personality here… I am indicating an almost hypnotic way of leaving the depression. hugs, Compucat "Jackel" wrote Just thinking and feeling about this recently and was wondering about the consequences of depression. I mean if you don’t get help!..or don’t get diagnosed.. what happens?.. I guess your life goes down the tubes right? Can you hide depression??? How would someone tackle depression without the use of drugs? Henry

Response:

Question:

Tai Chi is probably the easiest of all these organized exercises on the joints, as well as being good (light) breathing exercise. It also adapts relatively well to people who must sit. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Therapeutic Yoga. Tai Chi is also recommended.

Response:

I bet your health service can get you a physical (or occupational) therapist, who can help you design exercises that are within your capacity. You will be much the better for it. Boyd

I took a wellness program addressing this issue. They had to have a current breathing test and my program was built around the test. It proved very beneficial. The exercise program consisted of the treadmill, arm exerercises.weights, staircase and bicycle. They also had lectures on diet and issues concerning peop[le with breathing problems. Very good and informative

Response:

Therapeutic Yoga.

Tai Chi is also recommended.

Response:

Hi, I am also looking in to Therapeutic Yoga.

I recommend _Richard Hittleman's Yoga : 28 Day Exercise Plan_.  It starts over *very* easy and adds a new, slightly more difficult exercise every day.  The book is designed with stiff, sedentary folks in mind, although almost anyone who would like to be more flexible could benefit. -- (650) 236-2231 [daytime]        http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ The real puzzle of thermodynamics is not why entropy always increases with time, but why it was ever so low in the first place.  – H. Price

Response:

Hi, I am also looking in to Therapeutic Yoga.  I talked to the yoga center here and they told me they have quite a few asthmatics in this class who claim they have seen tremendous improvement in their asthma symptoms.  I am also housebound for awhile until I can get my situation under control and I am going to schedule a private session with one of their instructors in my home to get me started until the time I can get out to their class. Good luck! Lynn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, Have you think about some Ta

Question:

Pharp, Namaste "So my question is which is more important, keeping my back heel down or squaring my hips? " Squaring your hips has an inner dynamic to it. Why does the heel want to lift up? Something is pulling on it is there not? The "thing" that is  pulling it up is a tight/shortened muscle (may be in spasm) that wants/needs to relax, release, and lengthen. Or is it that the pelvic/torso or hip/femur attachments are tight, or is it the deep muscles of the pelvis or all of these?  Asana practice thus gives us an opportunity to explore the possibilities and tensions within the body (perhaps chronic character armoring) that we have acquired and are carrying around with us and allow us to release and regenerate (become more flexible body and mind and reclaim previously fragmented parts. Here is something that worked for me. Can you do simple parsvottanasana (forward bend to the front leg with the other leg  in back) with or without the hands behind the back and the hips square toward the forward leg )back heel down). This is like revolved triangle is it not? If this is difficult just master this first, then revolved triangle will come easy. Here the forward hip flexes (with the forward sitbone pointing back and upward while the back hip extends moving its ishium forward toward the front opening up the front groin. Here the ishium of the back leg  moves forward as the sitbone of the front leg moves back and upward squaring the hips.  Maintain a wide distance between the sit bones. Try to distract the front heel away from the  sit bone of the front leg as you go down keeping the chest and torso in extension. If this is easy for you, then the problem is most likely in the twisting of the torso as Sandra suggests (try practicing twists).

Response:

Thanks to all for the advice. I will put these suggestions into practice. I also recieved a private note suggesting that I use a low block under my back foot which really seems to help. I’ve tried shortening my stance but it doesn’t seem to help much. I think I really need to lengthen my calf and achilles tendon as Edward suggested so that my heel may some day touch the floor. Thanks again to all. Paul

Response:

        I wish I could see you in the pose. Without doing that take my suggestion for what it is, a suggestion. Try a narrower stance and have both feet facing toward your side bend. Check that your feet are really hips distance apart, if they aren’t you will be unstable. In my experience pavritti trikonasana is more of a torso twist and it’s easier to create this in the spine when the legs are comfortable and stable. peace, sandra PS. Play with this and also with Edwards suggestions, see for yourself what is best for you at this time. Keep in mind we change and so do our poses.

Response:

Hello, I’ve been practicing Iyengar style yoga for a few years and need a teachers opinion on revolved triangle pose. My teacher wants me to keep my back heel down but I find that I get a better twist letting my heel come up off the floor so that I can square my hips in the direction I am bending. So my question is which is more important, keeping my back heel down or squaring my hips? Lately I’ve been trying to do the pose once each way in hopes that some day I’ll be able to do the pose with heel down and hips square. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Paul

Response:

i would recommend turning the back foot out 45 degrees and keeping the heel down.  as much as twisting is part of the pose, so is groundedness.  you may also want to experiment with other poses that lengthen the calf/achilles tendon such as squats, downward facing dog, and one legged downward facing dog.  if the tightness is in the front of the hip, experiment with poses that open the hips and the quadriceps/pyriformis.  good luck–eg, teacher of therapeutic yoga  www.bigfoot.com/~egetman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’ve been practicing Iyengar style yoga for a few years and need a teachers opinion on revolved triangle pose. My teacher wants me to keep my back heel down but I find that I get a better twist letting my heel come up off the floor so that I can square my hips in the direction I am bending. So my question is which is more important, keeping my back heel down or squaring my hips?

Response:

    Hello,     I’ve been practicing Iyengar style yoga for a few years and need a teachers     opinion on revolved triangle pose. My teacher wants me to keep my back heel     down     Always listen to your teacher…      but I find that I get a better twist letting my heel come up off the floor     so that I can square my hips in the direction I am bending.     True. But by doing so you bypass most of the effect of the position! Build it up gradually, without forceing or even wanting to do the full pose. Your day will come with practise.      So my question is     which is more important, keeping my back heel down or squaring my hips?     Most important is to do any exercise: Pure Heartened, fully concentrated, Aware of what YOUR body allows you to do at that moment, without crossing the line from where the pose changes into torture(=violence), and always do the exercise correctly. In this case keep your heels on the floor. The problem is in the hip, allow it to gradually go away, just do your exercise and forget about eventual results!      Lately     I’ve been trying to do the pose once each way in hopes that some day I’ll be     able to do the pose with heel down and hips square.     Any advice would be appreciated.     Thanks,     Paul     Namaste – Paul.

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You have to be on a waiting list of up to 3 years to be able to study at BKS Iyengar’s studio…if you get to Jois’ classes, I would be interested in reading about your experience. How long have you been practicing? Good luck… (I was in India in December and studied with the Iyengars…)

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: You are thinking of BKS Iyengar, who has his style of yoga which is : not Ashtanga yoga. He did study with the same teacher as Jois though. Actually there is also B. N. S. Iyengar, and like his much more famous namesake he also studied with the same teacher as Jois, and later was Jois’s student. You can find more information from him here: http://www.ajna.demon.co.uk/yoga/iyengar.htm#iyengar

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I will be travelling to India to study yoga next month and was trying to decide who to study with. I’d like to hear from anyone who studied with either of the above. I’ve heard a lot about Jois, but very little about BNS. From my early research, it appears Jois’ class can get crowded & intense (not necessarily bad) but that it has evolved to become somewhat of a "scene." I’m most intent on getting the best training, and not necessarily becoming part of a scene. Any comments on the instruction, pace, community, landscape, environment etc. would be really appreciated.

You are thinking of BKS Iyengar, who has his style of yoga which is not Ashtanga yoga. He did study with the same teacher as Jois though. His style "Iyengar Yoga" uses the same postures, but holding them for longer periods of time. Ashtanga yoga flows from one pose to the next. Iyengar goes deeply into each pose as an exploration. He also teaches pranayama, which are breathing practices. The institute in which he teaches in Pune has a waiting list for students that I have heard is 2 years. His daughter Geeta and son Prashant teach at the institute as well. He has special seminars which mostly his long time senior students attend. These classes can be very intense with students holding the poses like the dog pose, and standing poses for 5 or 10 minutes at a stretch. He goes into details of internal awareness in the classes. Roots & Wings at http://www.yoga.com has some tapes of his classes for anyone who wants to see Mr.Iyengar in action. His other specialty is teaching therapeutic yoga for people with special problems, and he has been very successful in this realm.   Hope this is helpful. Shannon Brophy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be travelling to India to study yoga next month and was trying to decide who to study with. I’d like to hear from anyone who studied with either of the above. I’ve heard a lot about Jois, but very little about BNS. From my early research, it appears Jois’ class can get crowded & intense (not necessarily bad) but that it has evolved to become somewhat of a "scene." I’m most intent on getting the best training, and not necessarily becoming part of a scene. Any comments on the instruction, pace, community, landscape, environment etc. would be really appreciated. You are thinking of BKS Iyengar, who has his style of yoga which is not Ashtanga yoga. He did study with the same teacher as Jois though. His style "Iyengar Yoga" uses the same postures, but holding them for longer periods of time. Ashtanga yoga flows from one pose to the next. Iyengar goes deeply into each pose as an exploration. He also teaches pranayama, which are breathing practices. The institute in which he teaches in Pune has a waiting list for students that I have heard is 2 years. His daughter Geeta and son Prashant teach at the institute as well. He has special seminars which mostly his long time senior students attend. These classes can be very intense with students holding the poses like the dog pose, and standing poses for 5 or 10 minutes at a stretch. He goes into details of internal awareness in the classes. Roots & Wings at http://www.yoga.com has some tapes of his classes for anyone who wants to see Mr.Iyengar in action. His other specialty is teaching therapeutic yoga for people with special problems, and he has been very successful in this realm. Hope this is helpful. Shannon Brophy

Having spoken to my teacher and fellow class members the other day, I can add the following points to Shannon’s post. Mr Iyengar does not usually take the day to day classes at the Pune Institute himself – these are taken by Geeta and Prashant Iyengar, and other senior teachers. Mr Iyengar does however personally take Yoga Intensive courses from time to time. The bad news is that there is a three year (or so I’m told) waiting list for these Intensives – they are that popular. Even the places on the day to day courses are booked up for the rest of the year. I do not know your history in Yoga, but I should also point out that Beginners are not taught at the Pune Institute, only more experienced practitioners. The following links will provide useful information (they all go to the same place): http://www.bksiyengar.com http://bksiyengar.com Joseph Gurney

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I will be travelling to India to study yoga next month and was trying to decide who to study with. I’d like to hear from anyone who studied with either of the above. I’ve heard a lot about Jois, but very little

about BNS. Is this BNS Iyengar of Mysore any relation to the considerably more famous BKS Iyengar of Pune? —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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No he is not. Iyengar is a very common Indian name. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this BNS Iyengar of Mysore any relation to the considerably more famous BKS Iyengar of Pune?

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I will be travelling to India to study yoga next month and was trying to decide who to study with. I’d like to hear from anyone who studied with either of the above. I’ve heard a lot about Jois, but very little about BNS. From my early research, it appears Jois’ class can get crowded & intense (not necessarily bad) but that it has evolved to become somewhat of a "scene." I’m most intent on getting the best training, and not necessarily becoming part of a scene. Any comments on the instruction, pace, community, landscape, environment etc. would be really appreciated.

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I haven’t studied with either teacher, but . . . An Astanga teacher friend, who I respect greatly, studied with BNS several years ago.  His comments were totally positive, to the extent that he was sorry BNS was mentioned in a recent book on India because the publicity would ruin the scene! (By "scene" here, I’m referring to what my friend called an excellent teaching relationship with BNS) This friend is the only person I’ve known that studied with BNS. I’ve heard mixed reviews on Jois from several people, which isn’t to say I wouldn’t *not* want to study with him.  I expect that his shala in challenging in more ways than one. I will be travelling to India to study yoga next month and was trying to decide who to study with. I’d like to hear from anyone who studied with either of the above. I’ve heard a lot about Jois, but very little about BNS. From my early research, it appears Jois’ class can get crowded & intense (not necessarily bad) but that it has evolved to become somewhat of a "scene." I’m most intent on getting the best training, and not necessarily becoming part of a scene. Any comments on the instruction, pace, community, landscape, environment etc. would be really appreciated.

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