Posts belonging to Category 'Tai Chi Yoga'

Dr. Bob Arnot – Another Pretty Face OR Child Abuse In Sports

Question:

 I just got through reading a book by Dr. Bob Arnot called "Wear and Tear–Stop the pain and put the spring back in your body". He gives opinions on various exercises based on their possibility of hurting the joints (or not). He talks about the machines at clubs and sports, too. It’s worth a read. Pat in TX

Arnot has osteoarthritis. Arnot, by his own admission, has returned to skiing, running, hiking and other activities which continue to degenerate his articular cartilage. He is one bad event from a total hip replacement. His recent claim to fame is to have "found" the wonders of the "Glucosamine/Chondroiton" ( his misspelling not mine) complex after 20 years in OA network coverage. If he spent less time being Mr. NBC and more time in clinical medicine, or simply paying attention, he would have "found" that GC dosing has been highly effective in reducing the narrowing of the joints and in some cases regenerating articular cartilage. For a decade. We get ditties from Arnot like "I

NYNY & HHH

Question:

Sun Valley was wonderful!  

Glad to hear it. Well done on "taking the active option". — Erin in NZ 125/88/75 kgs 275.3/193.8/165 lbs NYNY goal 180.6lbs (82 kilos) "It is not the mountain we conquer, it is ourselves"     Sir Edmund Hilary

Response:

Glad you had a good time Donna.  Sounds like you got in some good days of exercise as well! — Brenda 209/173/150 NYNY goal 160 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sun Valley was wonderful!  Swing Design added another girl singer & they were really, really good.  The leaves turned to golden while we were there & it was just beautiful.  I did NOT want to come home. When we got home the air was full of smoke and dust & then I really wanted to go back!! We parked clear at the back of the big parking lot every day and walked a pretty good distance to get to the building we wanted.  Several times during the day we would go out and walk around just to get the kinks out after sitting for so many hours. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline! Great job on the HHH! As for the NYNY, better next week… How was Sun Valley ? Did you have a good time? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/101.8/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/224.4/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/224.4/214 The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

Sounds like you had a wonderful time! — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/101.8/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/224.4/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/224.4/214 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sun Valley was wonderful!  Swing Design added another girl singer & they were really, really good.  The leaves turned to golden while we were there & it was just beautiful.  I did NOT want to come home. When we got home the air was full of smoke and dust & then I really wanted to go back!! We parked clear at the back of the big parking lot every day and walked a pretty good distance to get to the building we wanted.  Several times during the day we would go out and walk around just to get the kinks out after sitting for so many hours. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline! Great job on the HHH! As for the NYNY, better next week… How was Sun Valley ? Did you have a good time? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/101.8/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/224.4/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/224.4/214 The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

Hi Donna, Sorry about the gain.  You’ll do better next week. Carol — 318/248.6/169 69.4 lost since December 2002 I am a slim person in process. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

Sorry about that wee gain, Donna, but I’m sure you’ll have it off this week. Elaine K 331.4/200.6/179 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

Sorry about the gain Donna.  Good luck next week! — Brenda 209/173/150 NYNY goal 160 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

Sorry for your teeny gain, but awesome job on walking everyday!  WTG! — ~Kristin O~ 272/239/172 Here’s our FAQ: http://www.didian.com/asdww/ and welcome notice: http://www.geocities.com/welcomenotice/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley.

That’s a small gain, you’ll have it off in no time. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day.

Well done :-) — Erin in NZ 125/88/75 kgs 275.3/193.8/165 lbs NYNY goal 180.6lbs (82 kilos) "It is not the mountain we conquer, it is ourselves"     Sir Edmund Hilary

Response:

Great job on the HHH! As for the NYNY, better next week… How was Sun Valley ? Did you have a good time? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/101.8/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/224.4/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/224.4/214 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

Sun Valley was wonderful!  Swing Design added another girl singer & they were really, really good.  The leaves turned to golden while we were there & it was just beautiful.  I did NOT want to come home. When we got home the air was full of smoke and dust & then I really wanted to go back!! We parked clear at the back of the big parking lot every day and walked a pretty good distance to get to the building we wanted.  Several times during the day we would go out and walk around just to get the kinks out after sitting for so many hours. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great job on the HHH! As for the NYNY, better next week… How was Sun Valley ? Did you have a good time? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/101.8/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/224.4/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/224.4/214 The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

Glad to hear you had a good time, Donna, but coming home can be a reall bummer. Elaine K 331.4/200.6/179 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sun Valley was wonderful!  Swing Design added another girl singer & they were really, really good.  The leaves turned to golden while we were there & it was just beautiful.  I did NOT want to come home. When we got home the air was full of smoke and dust & then I really wanted to go back!! We parked clear at the back of the big parking lot every day and walked a pretty good distance to get to the building we wanted.  Several times during the day we would go out and walk around just to get the kinks out after sitting for so many hours. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline! Great job on the HHH! As for the NYNY, better next week… How was Sun Valley ? Did you have a good time? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/101.8/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/224.4/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/224.4/214 The NYNY wasn’t too great – gained 0.4 lbs – so I’m back to 12.4 lost for a weight of 213 lbs.  Didn’t go to WW last week ‘cuz we were in Sun Valley. The HHH was pretty good – I walked every day. — Donna in Idaho! Project Linus Boise/SW Idaho Coordinator Website: http://donnakwilts.tripod.com/ The ultimate inspiration is the deadline!

Response:

NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

great work, Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Congrats on the new decade – the 170’s. You might want to start your own thread when you post such an accomplishment (G) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Great job, Brynda! Keep it up! — Wendy http://griffinsflight.com/Quilting/quilt1.htm de-fang email address to reply

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Great job Brynda. — SuzyQ Weight 124 WW Lifetime Membership Feb 03

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Great loss, Brynda!  Now what is body flow ? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/102.2/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/225.3/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/225.3/214

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Yeaaaa!! Not only a very nice loss of 1.6, but you made it into the 170’s!! Congratulations, Brynda. Elaine K 331.4/201.2/179 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Well…it’s a class at the gym that incorporates Tai Chi, Yoga and Pilates all in one set to music that is both energetic and relaxing at the right times.  It’s very nice, but it makes you VERY sore when you are not used to it.  At the end you get to lay on your mat in the dark for about 10 mins and it’s that thought that keeps me going through the class! HTH! Brynda 210/179/140ish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great loss, Brynda!  Now what is body flow ? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/102.2/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/225.3/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/225.3/214 NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!!

Woohoo, that’s great Brynda :-) You’re doing so well. — Erin in NZ 125/89/75 kgs 275.3/191.6/165 lbs NYNY goal 180.6lbs (82 kilos) "It is not the mountain we conquer, it is ourselves"     Sir Edmund Hilary

Response:

oh good for you Brynda!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Dropping down a decade is an exciting milestone. Congratulations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Prairie Roots 232/176/WW goal 145 joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003

Response:

Wow – that’s a whole heap of great figures you have there!  Well done you :) — krys UK 157/136.4/126 Started March 1st 2001 GOAL August 16th 2001 "Not all who wander are lost" JRR Tolkien

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

Great job Brynda. — Brenda 209/172/150 NYNY goal 160

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

WOOHOOOOOOOOO Brynda, that’s fabulous!!!  So happy for you! — ~Kristin O~ 272/237.2/172 Here’s our FAQ: http://www.didian.com/asdww/ and welcome notice: http://www.geocities.com/welcomenotice/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

I recently tried Yoga, and was very supprised at how difficult it was. Before I thought it was just a bunch of stretching. I wasn’t sore afterwards, but during the workout I was sweating like crazy! Amber 214/214/165 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well…it’s a class at the gym that incorporates Tai Chi, Yoga and Pilates all in one set to music that is both energetic and relaxing at the right times.  It’s very nice, but it makes you VERY sore when you are not used to it.  At the end you get to lay on your mat in the dark for about 10 mins and it’s that thought that keeps me going through the class! HTH! Brynda 210/179/140ish Great loss, Brynda!  Now what is body flow ? — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/102.2/minigoal 99.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/225.3/minigoal 220.3/Goal 150 pounds NYNY 227.3/225.3/214 NYNY – down 1.6 to 179!!!  I’M IN THE 170′S !!! That is really a great breaking point for me, because it signifies that I’ve lost over 30 pounds (31 to be exact) and that I’m only 4 or less pounds from being half-way there!  (Haven’t decided my goal weight yet) HHH – 5 times.  I did a BodyFlow class (has anyone else ever done that one at Gold’s Gym?) and was really extremely sore for the next 3 days, so that kinda thwarted any further exercise.  Oh well, there’s always another week, right? Thanks to everyone for their support.  Congrats to all the losers, and "keep your chin up" to all those that may be at a little standstill or downhill slide. Brynda 210/179/140ish

Response:

20 tips

Question:

You suggest playing a musical instrument as one solution but I actually find that when I play the piano, my tinnitus gets worse! Bill *************************************************************************** * ******************************* Elly Byrne <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway

wrote in message

news:un5c0v8s3l2eb2s6h1v5dd20mlmbutefdf@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus/discover.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net

Response:

Hi, I love this: control everything..;-)). It’s being like a construction site. Everything totally rational. Nutn _can_ go wrong. Welll.., some hard-hats can fall. Yesterday I lost a friend. Today I lost an enemy. Its true! In the meantime I think: let’s get on with living. T+H is baaaahhhd, but it is not the end o’theworld…. Maya "Elly Byrne" <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway

wrote in message

news:mjuneucvrgvlbd2tk3ojrs2l2f08kd22ap@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus/discover.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net

Response:

the monthly post by the clueless Australian mongrel kangaroo… play a jazz trumpet, yeah – that’ll damn sure HELP your tinnitus!

Response:

that’ll damn sure HELP your tinnitus!

http://www.goatse.cx/

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Shitttttttttttttttt  ……..

Response:

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:53:31 +1100, "Ferdie" <fer…@hotmail.com

wrote:

Shitttttttttttttttt  ……..

Tried that…it didn’t work ;-)

Response:

"High Flight" <j…@apk.net

wrote in message

news:amimel$8f1$1@plonk.apk.net…

Elly Byrne <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway says… 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. How about the drums?  Or lead guitar in a metal band? Jack — aka Keet        Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/     * If you post a followup, -DO NOT- email me a copy of it! *              Top-posters are generally ignored

Or lead guitar in a metal band :) This is how I got my T from watching said metal band. LOL if I’d have known about T then.

Response:

"High Flight" <j…@apk.net

wrote in message

news:amimel$8f1$1@plonk.apk.net…

Elly Byrne <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway says… 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. How about the drums?  Or lead guitar in a metal band?

Don’t know much about drums, but guitar players should indeed enjoy their craft (art?) with reasonable care taken.  There’s thousands of old headbangers out there happily wailing away with tinnitus.  They know a lot more about tinnitus than the hypochondriac decibelphobes who dominate AST. Henway

Response:

Shutit Henway, you were no help when I got T, and no help now. "Henway" <hen…@meckcom.net

wrote in message

news:nQ9j9.11$Qe.2228242@news2.randori.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "High Flight" <j…@apk.net

wrote in message

> news:amimel$8f1$1@plonk.apk.net… > > Elly Byrne <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway> says… > > > 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds > > > relief in playing a jazz trumpet. > > How about the drums?  Or lead guitar in a metal band? > Don’t know much about drums, but guitar players should indeed enjoy their > craft (art?) with reasonable care taken.  There’s thousands of old > headbangers out there happily wailing away with tinnitus.  They know a lot > more about tinnitus than the hypochondriac decibelphobes who dominate AST. > Henway

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 02:23:15 GMT, "Henway" <hen…@meckcom.net

wrote: "High Flight" <j…@apk.net wrote in message news:amimel$8f1$1@plonk.apk.net… Elly Byrne <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway says… 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. How about the drums?  Or lead guitar in a metal band? Don’t know much about drums, but guitar players should indeed enjoy their craft (art?) with reasonable care taken.  There’s thousands of old headbangers out there happily wailing away with tinnitus.  They know a lot more about tinnitus than the hypochondriac decibelphobes who dominate AST. Henway

Perhaps some of the music sounds they way it does because it "goes good" with the musician’s tinnitus? Terri

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus/discover.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://eebee.cjb.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net

Response:

21. Scratch your bottom : http://www.goatse.cx/ : 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, : acu-pressure, hypnosis. :

Response:

pad_s…@yahoo.co.uk (pad) wrote:

Or blowing ones own trumpet

Has it ever occurred to you that people like you are blowing your own trumpet all the time – non stop – etc. etc.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://eebee.cjb.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net

Response:

e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway (Elly Byrne) wrote in message <news:3c262a9b.2768539@news.austarnet.com.au

… pad_s…@yahoo.co.uk (pad) wrote: Or blowing ones own trumpet

Elly, I appreciate your 20 tips and wasn’t trying to ridicule them, although I do think that the one regarding the trumpet was a bit different ( shows the many manifestations of tinnitus I guess. ) Actually its those 2 kangaroos let loose in the paddock that I take issue with ( Nagler and Chinnis )!!!

Response:

"High Flight" <j…@apk.net

wrote in message

news:a05alt$8gf$1@plonk.apk.net…

Elly Byrne <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway says… Or blowing ones own trumpet I also find it hard to believe that blowing a trumpet could help at all. Maybe it was submitted as a joke?

If a condition is irritated by a frequency, isn’t that hyperacusis, not tinnitus?  (I’m asking, not debating) That tip makes sense to me.  Never played trumpet and haven’t been around one since I was a kid.  But, I imagine it can’t be so horribly loud as to do damage.  However, any sound that takes your focus away from tinnitus is a good thing.

Response:

It does seem a bit strange.  But someone wrote this in to ATA.  It seems to work for him/her. I don’t know the person.  I just pass on the tips.

bluem0z…@aol.com (BlueM0ZARK) wrote in message <news:20011222142558.00646.00000557@mb-fg.aol.com… <<15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet This is the one that always gets me.  The shrill high pitched annoying-as-hell sound of a trumpet…yeah, that always helps tinnitus!

            Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://eebee.cjb.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net

Response:

<<15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet

This is the one that always gets me.  The shrill high pitched annoying-as-hell sound of a trumpet…yeah, that always helps tinnitus!

Response:

bluem0z…@aol.com (BlueM0ZARK) wrote in message <news:20011222142558.00646.00000557@mb-fg.aol.com

… <<15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet This is the one that always gets me.  The shrill high pitched annoying-as-hell sound of a trumpet…yeah, that always helps tinnitus!

Or blowing ones own trumpet — like Nagler!

Response:

Elly, #17,Chewing gum, will have to be evaluated by each person individually.  For me, it exacerbated the T due to my TMJ, which gum also exacerbated.  The volume of the T got very loud when I chewed gum, and I have given up gum completely. Ginny

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ebyrne

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.bigfoot.com/~eebee/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

Thanks Elly I think these are really good tips. "Elly Byrne" <eby…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:3a19020f.403409@news.acay.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.bigfoot.com/~eebee/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://eebee.cjb.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

: : 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies : : 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker : : 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU : enjoy. : Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence : : 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, : eg. "I : won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. : : 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to : be less : rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional : problems. : : 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part : of daily : living. : : 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. : Ditto your : favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. : : 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, : air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. : : 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature : tapes, : especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, : running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. : : 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. : : 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces : stress. : : 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. : : 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their : meaning. : Learn more! Recite out loud too. : : 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. : : 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds : relief in : playing a jazz trumpet. : : 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no : tempero-mandibular (TMJ) : problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. : : 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. : : 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. : : 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else : in the : room. : : 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, : acu-pressure, : hypnosis. : :21.  http://www.goatse.cx/ :             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck : Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets : http://eebee.cjb.net/ : http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ : http://www.alexandertechnique.com : For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

Many persons with tinnitus can save money, once a diagnosis is made, by trying these 20 tips before embarking on a more expensive course. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net

Response:

: Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) : : 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies : : 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker : : 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU : enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence : : 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, : eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic : motto. : : 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to : be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve : emotional problems. : : 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part : of daily living. : : 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. : Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better : masking. : : 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, : air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. : : 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature : tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, : running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. : : 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. : : 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces : stress. : : 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. : : 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their : meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. : : 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. : : 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds : relief in playing a jazz trumpet. : : 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no : tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures : fit perfectly. : : 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. : : 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. : : 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else : in the room. : : 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, : acu-pressure, hypnosis. : : 21. http://www.goatse.cx/ : : :     Tinnitus is a pain in the neck : Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets : http://eebee.cjb.net/ : http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ : http://www.alexandertechnique.com : For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://eebee.cjb.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.bigfoot.com/~eebee/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

Many thanks from VLATI (selfhelpgroup in Belgium – Europe, Flemish part) – we anticipate your tips fully ! greetings, Mik

Response:

Thanks, Elly. I’ve saved this for future reference. Best wishes to all our Aussie friends – John Hamilton USA

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Ginny, Signing on has always bothered my ears even before I knew I had a problem with  hyperacusis (and tinnitus).  In order to muffle the sound, I plugged a pair  headphones into my computer and moved them as far away from the computer as  the cord would allow them to go.   Hope that helps. Peace, Sakoz

Response:

madk84 wrote:

GinnyK2 wrote: The sound that emits from my computer’s modem as it logs on is a high, shrill, piercing one that always hurts my ears.

Most modems have their own speaker, so the computer’s volume control doesn’t affect it. You can usually turn the modem’s speaker off (In Windows 95, click on MY Computer

Control Panel Modems Properties General, and move the

volume slider all the way to off. Ahhh, that’s better. If you have an external modem ( a box sitting next to the PC), many have volume control knobs hidden somewhere on them.

When I had my hearing tested the first time, the ENT cautioned me about the use of computers.  But I work with one everyday!  Pretty hard to escape that.  But then I come home and sit in front of this one voluntarily!  Can’t give it up!  (I also turn the volume down on mine – don’t know if it helps or not!)

AST Computer is now advertising "Quiet" PC’s which they claim only emit 10dB (of course they don’t say on which scale, at what distance, etc…). If your PC’s noise bugs you, you may want to check them out. Also, PC Power and Cooling sells replacement power supplies (where most of the constant noise comes from) for most brands of PC, which are much quieter than original equipment. Find both companies on the web… — Thomas E. Boismier, MPH <boism…@nospam.umich.edu

Associate Director, Vestibular Testing Center Department of Otorhinolaryngology University of Michigan Hospitals [Remove "nospam." from the above address to email me]

Response:

In article <3445FEB0.3…@nospam.umich.edu

, Tom Boismier

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<boism…@nospam.umich.edu

writes: madk84 wrote: GinnyK2 wrote: The sound that emits from my computer’s modem as it logs on is a high, shrill, piercing one that always hurts my ears. Most modems have their own speaker, so the computer’s volume control doesn’t affect it. You can usually turn the modem’s speaker off (In Windows 95, click on MY Computer Control Panel Modems Properties General, and move the volume slider all the way to off. Ahhh, that’s better. If you have an external modem ( a box sitting next to the PC), many have volume control knobs hidden somewhere on them. When I had my hearing tested the first time, the ENT cautioned me about the use of computers.  But I work with one everyday!  Pretty hard to escape that.  But then I come home and sit in front of this one voluntarily!  Can’t give it up!  (I also turn the volume down on mine – don’t know if it helps or not!) AST Computer is now advertising "Quiet" PC’s which they claim only emit 10dB (of course they don’t say on which scale, at what distance, etc…). If your PC’s noise bugs you, you may want to check them out. Also, PC Power and Cooling sells replacement power supplies (where most of the constant noise comes from) for most brands of PC, which are much quieter than original equipment. Find both companies on the web… — Thomas E. Boismier, MPH <boism…@nospam.umich.edu Associate Director, Vestibular Testing Center Department of Otorhinolaryngology University of Michigan Hospitals

Thank you for the directions for turning off the modem’s speaker in Windows95.  I hope everyone who is reading a.s.t. has done it.  It did not work when I did it, and perhaps since the modem was there before Windows95, it didn’t get connected together when I installed the software program.  It is an internal modem.  I think this is the most logical solution, and I will get a knowledgable computer person to figure out how it can be done on my computer. Ginny  

Response:

After having tinnitus for over 3 years I have suddenly realised that it is a lot worse after extended periods using a desktop computer. Laptops seem to be OK. Has anyone else had this problem and found a solution?

I have had fewer muscle/nerve problems when using a laptop for extended periods than when using a desktop computer. I think the desktop monitor, when "normally" placed, tends to create more tension in my neck and shoulders; i.e., if I have to hold my head lifted even a little for long periods of time. Recently, I moved a new larger monitor to chest-height (when I’m seated), so that the position is more like what the laptop screen is, just further away. So far I feel this position creates less tension in my neck and shoulders. I get "golfer’s elbow" from typing too much. I read in an industrial engineering ergonomics book that some researchers now think that many repetitive strain injuries (carpal tunnel, sore elbows, etc.) may originate in strained neck muscles and/or cervical spine problems. For what it’s worth… David Dayton

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GinnyK2 wrote:

The sound that emits from my computer’s modem as it logs on is a high, shrill, piercing one that always hurts my ears.  I have turned down the volume on the computer all the way, which helps, but it can still be pretty shrill.  I have taken to blocking my ears with my fingers whenever I sign on.  I wonder if there is a better way. I have entertained the idea that the repeated sounds of the modem may have actually caused the T.                                             Ginny                                    Cleveland, Ohio USA

Ginny When I had my hearing tested the first time, the ENT cautioned me about the use of computers.  But I work with one everyday!  Pretty hard to escape that.  But then I come home and sit in front of this one voluntarily!  Can’t give it up!  (I also turn the volume down on mine – don’t know if it helps or not!) Mary Ann

      Home of Cleveland Indians, Future 1997 World Series Baseball Champions!!!            CAUTION: These games, esp home games, produce TINNITUS!!!!!                 If you dare to watch one on TV, TURN DOWN the volume!!!                                        Go, Tribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!                                              YES!!!

P.S.  YES!  Also, I love the new opening to the Drew Carey show – now HE’s a dedicated Clevelandite!  :-)

Response:

Lilian Viitakangas wrote:

Hello all I have only just found this newsgroup. I am wondering if anyone has had tinnitus exacerbated by computers? After having tinnitus for over 3 years I have suddenly realised that it is a lot worse after extended periods using a desktop computer. Laptops seem to be OK. Has anyone else had this problem and found a solution? I use a computer nearly all day and my employers cannot fund a laptop.

I find that the volume of the T in my ears responds to anything that is a screen, PC, TV etc. I find that if I am wearing earplugs to shut out other external noise,the noise from the screen and hence my T is reduced. This may or may not help. Vickie ;) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Also, I have had several falls in the past year or so and have had 2 broken toes and a broken ankle as a result. As the tinnitus gets worse, my balance seems to deteriorate as well. Is there any documentation of a relationship here? My tinnitus is the result of a persistent fire alarm bell. My ENT said it would settle down after a year or two but this is not happening. I was congenitally totally deaf in one ear already, so ony my good ear is affected. I do all I can to relieve stress such as meditation etc and appreciate the 20 tips Vicki sent. I would be grateful for any help anyone can offer. Thanks Lilian

Response:

The sound that emits from my computer’s modem as it logs on is a high, shrill, piercing one that always hurts my ears.  I have turned down the volume on the computer all the way, which helps, but it can still be pretty shrill.  I have taken to blocking my ears with my fingers whenever I sign on.  I wonder if there is a better way. I have entertained the idea that the repeated sounds of the modem may have actually caused the T.                                             Ginny                                    Cleveland, Ohio USA       Home of Cleveland Indians, Future 1997 World Series Baseball Champions!!!            CAUTION: These games, esp home games, produce TINNITUS!!!!!                 If you dare to watch one on TV, TURN DOWN the volume!!!                                        Go, Tribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!                                              YES!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Elly Byrne wrote:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ebyrne tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html

Hi Elly, Thank you very much for your list of 20 Tips.  I printed it right out. I do most of them, but it’s good to have a list hanging up to remind yourself.  One other one I do is lap swim 3 times a week.  It’s great for the mind and body. — Vicki Westford, Ma. US

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ebyrne tinnitus faq: http://www.cccd.edu/faq/tinnitus.html

Response:

Hello all I have only just found this newsgroup. I am wondering if anyone has had tinnitus exacerbated by computers? After having tinnitus for over 3 years I have suddenly realised that it is a lot worse after extended periods using a desktop computer. Laptops seem to be OK. Has anyone else had this problem and found a solution? I use a computer nearly all day and my employers cannot fund a laptop. Also, I have had several falls in the past year or so and have had 2 broken toes and a broken ankle as a result. As the tinnitus gets worse, my balance seems to deteriorate as well. Is there any documentation of a relationship here? My tinnitus is the result of a persistent fire alarm bell. My ENT said it would settle down after a year or two but this is not happening. I was congenitally totally deaf in one ear already, so ony my good ear is affected. I do all I can to relieve stress such as meditation etc and appreciate the 20 tips Vicki sent. I would be grateful for any help anyone can offer. Thanks Lilian

Response:

<<15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet

someone tell Bart that the banjo doesn’t count….              ;-)

Response:

Elly, I don’t want to get in a long discussion with you re your ‘tips’, but some are clearly dubious.  Taking a walk on a windy day.  When I go out on a windy day, the noise of the air rushing by my ear is annoying.  I don’t know for a fact that the sound of the wind by my ears contributes to an increase in tinnitus, but why take the risk.  If I have to bike or walk when it’s windy, I wear ear plugs. Also, the mention of various therapies (Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis) are dubious. Acupuncture probably works because the giver and the receiver believe it works.  Go to http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html and you can read up on these (and other) unsubstantiated therapies.  Hypnosis actually doesn’t exist – it’s just a highly suggestive state.  Individuals have been interviewed after a so called hypnosis session and pretty much stated that they just went along with everything.  An in depth article can be found in an older issue of Skeptic magazine (possibly online) re hypnosis. Also, while you list ‘tips’ that on the surface seem to make sense, have they actually been tested. Deep relaxation techniques – while that seems like a good idea, where are the studied to back that up. Everything about tinnitus can be found at http://www.nih.gov/ .  The NIH is an unbiased, __not for profit__ organization. Dave Horne

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds  relief in shoving a jazz trumpet up his bot 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.  21. http://www.goatse.cx/             Tinnitus is a pain in the butt

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds  relief in shoving a jazz trumpet up his bot 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.  21. http://www.goatse.cx/             Tinnitus is a pain in the butt

Response:

In article <6ahj9v$a5…@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net

, Elly Byrne

<eby…@ozemail.com.au

writes

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.              Tinnitus is a pain in the neck. Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ebyrne

I like this. It is the sort of support I sought when I joined ast. I believe all newbies should be directed to this list  Brilliant Elly best regards Henry Bristol England

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.               Tinnitus is a pain in the neck. Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ebyrne

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Appreciate your post with 20 tips Jeff

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Thanks!

Response:

 Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. — email: eby…@acay.com.au Tinnitus is a pain in the neck http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://eebee.cjb.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

<Don’t tell me.  Another member finds relief playing lead guitar in a rock band?

No.  There’s a study that’s been done in Australia that shows if you stick your head in the main PA speaker stack at a Metallica show, your tinnitus will disappear.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. 21. http://www.goatse.cx/             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://eebee.cjb.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

trueblue 21. http://www.goatse.cx/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

There’s a study that’s been done in Australia that shows if you stick your head in the main PA speaker stack at a Metallica show, your tinnitus will disappear.

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening.  Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

Thanks Elly, All those tips are so useful…hard to list things which are good in our life, when the t.is bad…like today!! Mine always seems to be worse on rainy days…has anyone else found this out? I think it’s because the doctor found out I was allergic to mould in our house.  BTW what is the best treatment for hyperacusis??? I’m having trouble again with neighbour’s stereo bass noises invading our house! I can hear them a mile off, when others don’t!(g) Wonder if anyone else gets that..or is it the CFS I have as well? Thanks again for your support here, Judy.G.in New Zealand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Elly wrote in message <7bmnfn$ub…@nnrp1.dejanews.com

… Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Response:

Thanks for the tips but this post like a chain letter that keeps re-appearing was already posted here before. But I guess it was worth posting again.

Response:

lako…@aol.com (Lakotaw) wrote:

Thanks for the tips but this post like a chain letter that keeps re-appearing was already posted here before. But I guess it was worth posting again.

…….. One of the characteristics of a newsgroup is the transient nature of those who follow it.  Some, to be sure, check in daily.  Some check in weekly.  Some when the thought strikes them.  MANY, however, might just test the waters once or twice … never to return because the medium or the format do not appeal to them.   Elly’s "20 tips" are very valuable.  I don’t necessarily agree with every one, but the point is that they are an excellent starting point with respect to a common sense approach to tinnitus … and they might be just the thing that starts the guy who "just checks in once or twice" on the road to a much better life. I’m very glad that they keep re-appearing here. stephen nagler

Response:

I post them once a month.  Each time someone emails me and expresses appreciation. lako…@aol.com (Lakotaw) wrote:

Thanks for the tips but this post like a chain letter that keeps re-appearing was already posted here before. But I guess it was worth posting again.

            Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email remove ’spam’ from spamacay

Response:

Elly, you are truly blessed that you can find relief among your 20 tips. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

21. If you’ve done everything you can, forget about it and get on with your life. — Jack Rodgers There is a cure for tinnitus. Will someone please find it.

Response:

Thank you for listing these 20 tips from time to time. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

Elly Byrne wrote:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’

I found all of the following to be right on…but have one exception..

17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all.

(This was right after the TMJ one…) If you have TMJ – DON’T CHEW GUM! Makes it *way* worse… Dana

Response:

I like the tips.   I hear that if you have TMJ, it may be worse to chew gum.   I did find that if you can lower blood pressure, that tinnitus gets less.    I was a bit overweight.    I went on a low colesteral diet and lost about 35lbs.   The tinnitis went down with the weight loss.   My blood pressure went down about 10 points average after the weight loss.  I have some more to go, and this will be great if the tinnitus gets less. — Jerry Greenberg =========================================== Email:              jerry…@hotmail.com Home Page:   http://www.zoom-one.com Components:  http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm Products:         http://shop.affinia.com/jerryg50/Store1/ Navigation:      http://www.zoom-one.com/navigati.htm Sci/Inst:            http://www.zoom-one.com/actel.htm Personal:         http://www.total.net/~jerryg Electronic Components, And Navigation Compasses ============ Message Separator =============== "Elly Byrne" <eby…@spamacay.com.au

wrote in message

news:38fe0e76.3193055@news.acay.com.au… Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email remove ’spam’ from spamacay

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com

Response:

Elly, Thanks for your tips…they came for me at the right time. They  have renovations going on next door to us…on an adjoining wall to our lounge…this has gone on for weeks, and each time we ask them how much longer, the guy abuses us! It has got to the stage where I can’t cope …I have CFS as well as Tinnitus, and am not on any medication, but  haven’t the energy to drive us out away from here. my husband doesn’t drive(partially sighted) and we have annual holidays at the moment in NZ. Thanks for letting me moan. Any tips would be useful from anyone! Judy in New Zealand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Elly Byrne wrote in message <36a6384…@job.acay.com.au

… Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.            Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus/discover.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.bigfoot.com/~eebee/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

21. WHATEVER YOU DO…STAY THE HELL OFF AST !

Response:

Regarding the tip on dentistry–try to find a dentist who can do fillings with laser or air-abrasion equipment to avoid the prolonged exposure to loud drilling noises that might aggravate your tinnitus. Also, ask that the dentist (or the hygienist) clean your teeth manually rather than with that machine that emits that horrific high-frequency noise. BK

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.               Tinnitus is a pain in the neck. Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com

Response:

Ocassionaly when I walk in the evening, some jerk will yell some insult as he drives by. I have instructed my tinnitus to depart my head and enter the next jerk who does so… That it has my complete and total permission to do this and to enjoy its new home! ———- In article <6ucgfc$qq…@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -eby…@ozemail.com.au (Elly Byrne) wrote:

19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room.

Response:

They probably think your Jack Knoff. — Bill Gerrells, Fargo, ND, USA American Tinnitus Association member Join the ATA at 800-634-8978. http://www.ata.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jack wrote:

Ocassionaly when I walk in the evening, some jerk will yell some insult

as

he drives by. I have instructed my tinnitus to depart my head and enter

the

next jerk who does so..

Response:

Ocassionaly when I walk in the evening, some jerk will yell some insult ashe

drives by. I have instructed my tinnitus to depart my head and enter the

next

jerk who does so.. …………….  Geez Jack. Was that you I almost ran over last night??    No wonder my heads been buzzing for 2 days.  jean

Response:

In article <8lyO1.1723$OX1.1800…@news4.mia.bellsouth.net

,

        "Jack Rodgers" <jrodg…@bellsouth.net

wrote: Ocassionaly when I walk in the evening, some jerk will yell some insult as he drives by.

—————— Yeah, me too. Usually it’s my wife and kids. Bruce Seattle

Response:

I wouldn’t wish my T to go into anyone else, even my worst enemy!!  But I know you were only joking. Best to you.

Response:

Please put that type of joke in the same category as fat jokes… ———- In article <360b121…@news.linkup.net

, "Bill Gerrells" <b…@pcparts.net

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

They probably think your Jack Knoff. — Bill Gerrells, Fargo, ND, USA American Tinnitus Association member Join the ATA at 800-634-8978. http://www.ata.org Jack wrote: Ocassionaly when I walk in the evening, some jerk will yell some insult ashe drives by. I have instructed my tinnitus to depart my head and enter thenext jerk who does so..

Response:

Trust me. That wasn’t a joke. I can think of many people I would wish my t to transport to: the snipers in Bosnia, terrorists and so on… ———- In article <19981004021811.11327.00002…@ng23.aol.com

, krippe…@aol.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(KRippetoe) wrote:

I wouldn’t wish my T to go into anyone else, even my worst enemy!!  But I know you were only joking. Best to you.

Response:

On 23 Oct 2002, High Flight wrote:

How about the drums?  Or lead guitar in a metal band?                            Jack

I dunno.  I kinda think cymbals would have the most stunning effect. Eva

Response:

21. Use a pressure cooker – total masking and nice food. — Geoffrey Browne. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: eby…@spamacay.com.au (Elly Byrne) Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Reply-To: eby…@acay.com.au Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 20:53:10 GMT Subject: 20 tips Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email remove ’spam’ from spamacay

Response:

eby…@spamacay.com.au (Elly Byrne) wrote:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’

That is a very useful list, thank you. With respect to having a continual background noise, I find that it is impostant to totally rest my hearing mechanism as well – ie absolute silence.  Of course the old T screams but that can be dealt with with your other suggestions. I use a se-sound generator to go to sleep, but it switched off after half an hour or so. Cheers John

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.acay.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email remove ’spam’ from spamacay

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.                     Tinnitus is a pain in the neck. Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ebyrne http://www.alexandertechnique.com  

Response:

Eli Woods wrote:

According to the theory behind Tinnitus Retraining Therapy, one of the most successful available for tinnitus, constant background noise a volume level below your tinnitus is important.  In some cases with TRT, devices are worn on both ears that generate white noise throughout the day.  I seem to recall a paper on tinnitus which said that total silence or environments where noises levels are very low should be avoided.

Yes, I understand that. But see my message to ‘Sakoz’ of today, 01.25 GMT. There is a difference between avoiding total silence and environments with very low noise levels on the one hand (I would like to find such an environment, though! ;-) ), and _always_ playing music and being busy, on the other hand. In my opinion the contiuous overstimulation in modern society is one of the causes of so many people having trouble with noise. But this is ‘just my personal, medically uneducated view’, to quote Jim Chinnis. Bye! Baukje, the Netherlands

Response:

I totally agree that my T is down to almost inperceptable levels when I get enough sleep..and don’t have all the "noise"in my life. Let calm enter our lives and be a part of it. VERY IMPORTANT. Keep up the Ginko and Vitamins too!

Response:

being busy, on the other hand. In my opinion the contiuous overstimulation in modern society is one of the causes of so many people having trouble with noise. But this is ‘just my personal, medically uneducated view’, to quote Jim Chinnis.

I read something recently about the negative effects of noise pollution- exactly what you’ve described.  Noise pollution causes stress as does the fear of it, such as thinking: "when is that car with the blasting stereo and broken muffler going to distress my evening relaxation activities again?" Stress can contribute to tinnitus.  Thus your view seems to have merit.

Response:

I am 62 years of age and have had "t" for over 10 years.  I have the version that sounds like a high pitched schreeching sound and it is more prominent as the years go along.  I discovered today, that I can cause a brief increase in loudness by clenching my jaw, but for the life of me can’t imagine why I would want to do so! <g

I wonder what value there is to seeing any doctor other than one engaged in research at this stage of knowledge?  I have seen a couple of ENT doctors many years ago and they all said the noise was related to hearing loss.  Well, my hearing is better than many people I know.  I can still hear 40 hz and up to 12 khz quite well thank you.  Some loss in the midrange.  In fact T has almost been a blessing.  I live in a rural setting that is very quiet.  Any car or kid yelling sounds like it is in the same room with me in spite of things I have done to make it harder for sounds to penetrate my house.  The T actually masks some sounds I am glad to not notice.  I noted that several people do things to mask the T noise.  If they can accept the masking sounds why not just accept the T sound?  I don’t like it, but have accepted it as a fact of life like a light bulb on when I want to go to sleep. A couple of the tips caught my attention and I wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth: Elly Byrne wrote:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems.

6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them partof daily living. Being retired and not married is pretty relaxed style of living.  I came from San Jose, California working up to 60 hours a day and driving through the going and coming from traffic.  I know what stress is.  In my case I see no relationship between stress and T.  I have wondered and checked my stress levels in the past when I became aware of T.  I cannot see any correlation.

7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car.

As indicated above, if one can adjust to all of these other sounds why not accept the T noise?

10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea.

I walk 3 miles most every day.  I am not sure what the point of this suggestion is?  Has walking helped some people get rid or reduce their T noise? I am glad to have found this group.  I have lived with T without much input from others.  Either people don’t mention it or they don’t have it. In any case I don’t get to share notes with others. I am interested in a post several have made about separating research by differences.  The continual  T noise that seems to be centered in the head and impacted by jaw clenching would seem to be a different beast from that which seems localized in one ear.  Deafness related would seem to be different from those that are not experiencing significant deafness.  I would also wonder if chronic T is different from episodic T?

Response:

Is anyone familiar with the Zinc research they did in Sept 1997 at the Dept of Otorhinolaryngology in Kyoto-fu Japan (St. Marianna University School of Medicine)? Evidently they found that a selected tinnitus group had a significantly lower blood zinc level than the non T control group (p<0.0001). They administered 34-68 mg of Zn++ for 2 weeks. There evidently was a significant decrease in the T vol levels after the test Not that this should be considered a cure-all by any means or to be effective on everybody, but maybe further studies should be done on this. Thank you, Mark

Response:

On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 02:01:22 GMT, eby…@ozemail.com.au (Elly Byrne) wrote:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’

…..

10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea.

Extensive walking stresses my system – I have back trouble – and can awake my tinnitus

17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all.

If you chew in public, please shut your mouth while you are chewing. You are no cattle. Watching all those chewing faces – e.g. during a football game on tv – gives me a lot of stress and makes my T louder.

19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room.

My experience with white noise generators has helped me in doing this. —— Sorry Elly, I like most of your tips – but  lots of open mouths chewing away just gives me the creeps. Hans

Response:

<< lots of open mouths chewing away just gives me the creeps.

Amen to *that*! Especially old people gumming their cottage cheese… Cheers, Leonard { Please support the American Tinnitus Association: http://www.ata.org/ } "The deepest principle of human nature is the craving to be appreciated." –William James   130

Response:

High Flight wrote:

Elly Byrne <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway says… 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. How about cymbols?  Or drums in a heavy metal band?                            Jack

How about cymbals, even? (Symbols?) First, I think  Elly’s testimony that somebody with tinnitus enjoys playing the trumpet is truthful. And there is no doubt (even aside from what I’ve read here) that other people with tinnitus have not given up on music, and,  indeed, environmental sound enrichment is part of any habituation protocol. So I don’t see the point in ridiculing this point by caricature. Yes, drummers get tinnitus more than anyone, and we all know about over-amplified rock concerts. The flute is also a musical instrument. Just as the chirping of your budgies doesn’t seem to bother you, Jack. DIfferent strokes for different folks. Sandy

Response:

From: Sandy McCroskey sa…@thenation.com So I don’t see the point in ridiculing this point by caricature. Yes, drummers

get tinnitus more than anyone, and we all know about over-amplified rock concerts. The flute is also a musical instrument. Just as the chirping of your budgies doesn’t seem to bother you, Jack. Different strokes for different folks.

Sandy

Nah–Jack’s just working on his finely-honed sense of humer ;-) Rhaj

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus/discover.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net

Response:

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus/discover.html             Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Resources http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ For email: elly at eebee.cjb.net

Response:

Let’s hope that Martin reads this and remembers it before he advises drugs to the visitors here. I would add number 21. Get a life, not wrapped entirely around T and Nagler. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

On 20 Aug 2003 05:15:18 GMT, entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote:

Let’s hope that Martin reads this and remembers it before he advises drugs to the visitors here. I would add number 21. Get a life, not wrapped entirely around T and Nagler. Murray Grossan, M.D.

What did Nagler say when you asked him to buy a gross of Grossan-ators?  Your loyalty should be rewarded no matter how misguided. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport

Response:

7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking.

Why mask it at all ?   isn’t that just an indication the one haven’t accepted the fact that tinnitus will stay for the rest of ones life ? How many hours of the rest of ones life will be spent masking ??

8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car.

Why ? I have found that long term background noises tend to stress the ears.

10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea.

Why seek noise ?

Response:

T is no different than a loud clicking clock in the room. If you turn on the TV then you don’t hear the clock. If you get along fine – you don’t hear the clock, fine then you don’t benefit by turning on the TV. Others however do You are correct in saying certain things may not work for you. Do what works, esp if you have found peace. Best, Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

"Jesper Buch" <jesperb…@hotmail.com

wrote in part: Why seek noise ?

It helped me enormously, especially during the first year or two. It can reduce the contrast of the tinnitus, making it less noticeable. It can also somewhat effectively substitute a more pleasant sound for an unpleasant one. And then there are lucky people who experience relatively long-lasting residual inhibition and have a cessation or reduction in their tinnitus for hours or days after masking. — Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Want to discuss Meniere’s? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG

Response:

It helped me enormously, especially during the first year or two. It can reduce the contrast of the tinnitus, making it less noticeable. It can

also

somewhat effectively substitute a more pleasant sound for an unpleasant

one.

And then there are lucky people who experience relatively long-lasting residual inhibition and have a cessation or reduction in their tinnitus

for

hours or days after masking.

OK I have had Tinnitus for 12 years and I am no longer that bothered by it though it’s a lot louder now that 12 years ago.

Response:

On 20 Aug 2003 05:15:18 GMT, entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote:

I would add number 21. Get a life, not wrapped entirely around T and Nagler. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Please stop acting like a shill for nasal products and conduct yourself like a professional, if you can. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK! America has a "Suicidal Openess" to immigration and it must end or we will fall

Response:

On 20 Aug 2003 16:00:35 GMT, entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote:

Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Please stop advertizing nasal products. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK! America has a "Suicidal Openess" to immigration and it must end or we will fall

Response:

100 Days of Exercise challenge

Question:

If it’s not too much of a burden. If more people want it and it becomes a hassle, don’t sweat it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Max and poetree: Do you really want me to track your writing?  I will you know.  (I’m a short story writer in RL (among other things), but haven’t had much time to write due to finishing up me bachelors degree (at long last).  I will commit to writing at least three pages a day, either a short story, my novel in progress, an article, or in my journal for the duration of the challenge. I need to stretch those muscles as well.  Thanks for the suggestion, poetree! — Citius, Altius, Fortius! — Deb Wunder  (^_^)/ LC since 21 Sept, 2002 264/230/120 June Challenge Goal:  225 Being challenged in life is inevitable.  Being defeated is optional."                                   —  Roger Crawford 4. I will write at least 500 words a day on my novel. I’ll match you on that. Check in next friday. Hi Max and thanks for the encouragement.  I tried to write you privately, but the message was blocked by your server. I’m "lightly" familiar with Thoreau, Whitman, Emerson et.al. in that I’ve read but not studied them.  I mostly enjoy contemporary literary fiction but think I’ll give Henry Miller, Hemingway, Salinger, etc. a go. So, what’s your novel about?  Is this your first one? You can email me privately at imprompt_too at yahoo.com. poetree — Citius, Altius, Fortius — Deb (^_^)/ "Being challenged in life is inevitable.  Being defeated is optional." — Roger Crawford

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If it’s not too much of a burden. If more people want it and it becomes a hassle, don’t sweat it. Max and poetree: Do you really want me to track your writing?  I will you know.  (I’m a short story writer in RL (among other things), but haven’t had much time to write due to finishing up me bachelors degree (at long last).  I will commit to writing at least three pages a day, either a short story, my novel in progress, an article, or in my journal for the duration of the challenge. I need to stretch those muscles as well.  Thanks for the suggestion, poetree! — Citius, Altius, Fortius! — Deb Wunder  (^_^)/ LC since 21 Sept, 2002 264/230/120 June Challenge Goal:  225 Being challenged in life is inevitable.  Being defeated is optional."                                   —  Roger Crawford 4. I will write at least 500 words a day on my novel. I’ll match you on that. Check in next friday. Hi Max and thanks for the encouragement.  I tried to write you privately, but the message was blocked by your server. I’m "lightly" familiar with Thoreau, Whitman, Emerson et.al. in that I’ve read but not studied them.  I mostly enjoy contemporary literary fiction but think I’ll give Henry Miller, Hemingway, Salinger, etc. a go. So, what’s your novel about?  Is this your first one? You can email me privately at imprompt_too at yahoo.com. poetree — Citius, Altius, Fortius — Deb (^_^)/ "Being challenged in life is inevitable.  Being defeated is optional." — Roger Crawford

– Not a hassle at all. I said I would track whatever exercises people wanted. Citius, Altius, Fortius — Deb (^_^)/ "Being challenged in life is inevitable.  Being defeated is optional." — Roger Crawford

Response:

I started on Monday. I have lifted three times this week. I mowed the lawn once (weather did not permit more). Tomorrow AM — elliptical Cardio. I have listened to three segments of a 24 part world philosophy lecture and have read 1.5 books, Noam Chomsky’s "The Common Good" being the one, and Noam Chomsky’s "What Uncle Sam Really Wants" being the point-five. I’m trying to do the 100 days as a mental and a spiritual development exercise as well as a physical one. So, to revise my previously stated goal, I want to lift (Bruce Lee or Body 4 Life) 3 times a week, do something physical other than lifting 3 days a week (Tai Chi, Yoga, Pilates, Elliptical, Rock Climb at REI), read something for part of every day, and try to listen to lectures or books on tape while working out instead of workout material. This coming week, it is more Chomsky and more World Philosophy with Kathleen Higgins. — "The people who oppose your ideas are inevitably  those who represent the established order that  your ideas will upset." -Anthony D’Angelo

Response:

I’m trying to do the 100 days as a mental and a spiritual development exercise as well as a physical one.

This is the coolest suggestion I’ve read so far.  I think it helps to shift the mental/spiritual diet along with the body.  I accept  your challenge with one addition: a creative exercise. 1. I will (finally) join that yoga class at the Y…and do a workout while i’m there. 2. I will spend at least 15 minutes a day in nature. 3. I will begin reading some of the classics, get a list of suggestions from someone. 4. I will write at least 500 words a day on my novel. Thanks for the motivation/challenge! poetree

Response:

This is the coolest suggestion I’ve read so far.  I think it helps to shift the mental/spiritual diet along with the body.  I accept  your challenge with one addition: a creative exercise.

Someone else started the 100 days of exercise challenge. Personally, I’m just trying to do more with the challenge. 1. I will (finally) join that yoga class at the Y…and do a workout while i’m there.

Good for you. 2. I will spend at least 15 minutes a day in nature.

Good for you. 3. I will begin reading some of the classics, get a list of suggestions from someone.

I hate to send anyone to Oprah, but her new book club is doing the classics, so you might look there. You might also tie it together with your other stuff. Looking at the Yoga and Nature, I would suggest Walden, by H.D. Thoreau, and then maybe some of the Romantics if you are in to poetry or not. Whitman’s Leaves of Grass, Cooper’s Last of the Mohicans, Moby Dick. That’s about a summer worth of classics reading. -Max Harris has a degree in literature from Charter Oak State College in Connecitcut, which explains why he is going back to get his MBA. 4. I will write at least 500 words a day on my novel.

I’ll match you on that. Check in next friday.

Response:

4. I will write at least 500 words a day on my novel. I’ll match you on that. Check in next friday.

Hi Max and thanks for the encouragement.  I tried to write you privately, but the message was blocked by your server. I’m "lightly" familiar with Thoreau, Whitman, Emerson et.al. in that I’ve read but not studied them.  I mostly enjoy contemporary literary fiction but think I’ll give Henry Miller, Hemingway, Salinger, etc. a go. So, what’s your novel about?  Is this your first one? You can email me privately at imprompt_too at yahoo.com. poetree

Response:

Max and poetree: Do you really want me to track your writing?  I will you know.  (I’m a short story writer in RL (among other things), but haven’t had much time to write due to finishing up me bachelors degree (at long last).  I will commit to writing at least three pages a day, either a short story, my novel in progress, an article, or in my journal for the duration of the challenge.  I need to stretch those muscles as well.  Thanks for the suggestion, poetree! — Citius, Altius, Fortius! — Deb Wunder  (^_^)/ LC since 21 Sept, 2002 264/230/120 June Challenge Goal:  225 Being challenged in life is inevitable.  Being defeated is optional."                                   —  Roger Crawford – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 4. I will write at least 500 words a day on my novel. I’ll match you on that. Check in next friday. Hi Max and thanks for the encouragement.  I tried to write you privately, but the message was blocked by your server. I’m "lightly" familiar with Thoreau, Whitman, Emerson et.al. in that I’ve read but not studied them.  I mostly enjoy contemporary literary fiction but think I’ll give Henry Miller, Hemingway, Salinger, etc. a go. So, what’s your novel about?  Is this your first one? You can email me privately at imprompt_too at yahoo.com. poetree

– Citius, Altius, Fortius — Deb (^_^)/ "Being challenged in life is inevitable.  Being defeated is optional." — Roger Crawford

Response:

This month it will be The Power of Now (not a book endorsement just the next up on my mile high, to be read, book pile) :)

My Girlfriend’s brother and sister swear by this book. I have tried to read it and am so turned off by the question and answer form, the shoddy writing, and the warmed over selective buddhism and christianity that I cannot get through it. If you have no exposure to real eastern thought, I think Power of Now (if you are not literarily persnickety) is probably a good start, not a good end. Frankly, Tao of Pooh was a much better read. Spiritually I am a coordinator for my church’s study group that meets Centering myself and my environment… Now that for the first time in my life I feel that I have taken some control back on my diet and loosing weight in a healthy manner, I need to take control of other scattered and unfocussed areas of my life.  I commit to doing what ever it takes to clean up areas of clutter in my life that distract me and waist my time…STARTING WITH MY DESK!!!

I’ll see your Desk and raise you my bedroom.

Response:

My Girlfriend’s brother and sister swear by this book. I have tried to read it and am so turned off by the question and answer form, the shoddy writing, and the warmed over selective buddhism and christianity that I cannot get through it.

Thank you for validating my response to this book!  I tried so hard to get through it, and finally gave it away.  Felt like the Idiot’s Guide to a Course in Buddhist Miracles. A good message, but not very well expressed IMHO. OTOH, this book was responsible for completely turning my ex-husband’s life around and i’m glad it’s out there. i’m partial to Thich Nhat Hahn’s Peace Is Every Step. I’ll see your Desk and raise you my bedroom.

Let’s make it interesting and throw in the junk drawer…

Response:

I’m in! But for me I want this to be longer than 100 days. I want the changes to become new good habits that will hopefully get established in the 100 days. I have lifted three times this week…. I am shooting for 2 – 3 times a week. Aerobic – treadmill minimum 5 times a week and work on brings up speed more. Tai Chi, Yoga, Pilates, Elliptical, Rock Climb at REI)… Either Tai Chi and/or Yoga (not for aerobic but centering and flexibility)  read something… I have belonged to a book group for many years so I get my monthly shot of fiction, but I commit to reading at least one non-fiction book a month as well. This month it will be The Power of Now (not a book endorsement just the next up on my mile high, to be read, book pile) :) Spiritually I am a coordinator for my church’s study group that meets in my home. The time to prepare and set up for the actual meeting is one thing, but there is the additional time of support for the members that goes on through out the month.  There is also a space limit to how many my home can handle well so we have, and are at, our maximum number of members.  I commit to expanding and taking in two additional members. (In case you were wondering there are other groups forming all the time so we are not leaving anyone out in the cold, but we have a wait list for ours). This is a good time for me to make this stretch since I am also a Girl Scout Leader and because we don’t meet in the summer I have that extra time…I can’t believe I just said that I would have "extra time", oh well…hopefully I can get the group expansion down before the scouting meeting start up again. Giving back to others… I have agreed to continue being a leader for both the church group and scouts, but I will "consider", I know thats a maybe but I have to see how the study group expansion goes, consider taking on an additional Girl Scout Council position. Centering myself and my environment… Now that for the first time in my life I feel that I have taken some control back on my diet and loosing weight in a healthy manner, I need to take control of other scattered and unfocussed areas of my life.  I commit to doing what ever it takes to clean up areas of clutter in my life that distract me and waist my time…STARTING WITH MY DESK!!! Thank you all for being a forum that I am now accountable for to make and maintain these changes in my life!  It’s a big gulp to take on at one time but I like a challenge, and I like the reward waiting for me when I succeed!!

Response:

What really does help?

Question:

Yeah . . . what he said ;-)

period of time in which you hadn’t noticed your "t."  Which leads to another question–during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is it there?

        These are the times when you firmly insist to yourself that you do not, or did not, have tinnitus instead of saying I didn’t notice it. A play on words, or fooling yourself? Perhaps. The benefit though, approaching it this way now all of a sudden your tinnitus is no longer a 24/7 thing and you’ve reduced it to part-time only status. Whatever the activety was that made you not have it: do more of that. The longer you do not have it, the easier it becomes to prolong the times you do not have it. tinnitus, custom compensated bridges, 5 string tabs, midis: www.haruteq.com banjo MP3’s: www.mp3.com/bartveerman **may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

Response:

You need to distract yourself… however works best.  You have to break the cycle where you listen to it, become more anxious, and subsequently the anxiety takes your whole nervous system up with it including your tinnitus…thereby making you even more anxious. You’ll know this is happening when you eventually feel a pressured sensation in the inner-ear.  Try a movie or going out…something that completely absorbs your attention.  Consistent sleep schedules are also beneficial…has to do with the bio-rhythms the brain goes through. On Thu, 29 May 2003 20:29:47 +0200, "Marcel Klein" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<spu…@hotmail.com

wrote: what (home made) things or activities are reported to help the T? like Foods, sports, what does not help(i heard MArijuana makes T worse?) i remember a posting sometime ago in this group where Users reported of what had helped them but cant find it on Google… thanks i. a.

Response:

"Marcel Klein" <spu…@hotmail.com

wrote in message <news:bb5jh3$4umcn$1@ID-122860.news.dfncis.de… what (home made) things or activities are reported to help the T? like Foods, sports, what does not help(i heard MArijuana makes T worse?) i remember a posting sometime ago in this group where Users reported of what had helped them but cant find it on Google… thanks i. a.

Hi Marcel As for foods I have no idea, but generally it’s a good idea to get exercise on a very regular basis. Go out for a walk, briskwalk, jogging, whatever suits you. Or to the gym. Right after exercise T can seem louder, but a general feeling of wellbeing is very likely to help you cope better with T. There are other activities. Only you know which to pick, depending on your interests. It could be sailing, painting whatever. Doing something one likes is important or one can get to feel like a prisoner in ones own body. Sitting in a chair, feeling sorry for oneself and on top of that not getting any exercise is quite likely NOT to help and might actually add to feeling generally miserable. Best regards Susanne

Response:

"Marcel Klein" <spu…@hotmail.com wrote: what (home made) things or activities are reported to help the T? like Foods, sports, what does not help(i heard MArijuana makes T worse?) i remember a posting sometime ago in this group where Users reported of what had helped them but cant find it on Google… thanks i. a.

Marcel, Yeah . . . what Susanne said ;-) Add to that, anything that provides a serious distraction–if you’re really involved or focused on something–you will notice (later)–that there was a period of time in which you hadn’t noticed your "t."  Which leads to another question–during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is it there? RHaj  (waxing metaphysical ;-) NB–Pot’s kind of an "intropective" drug–(how long can you stare at your navel)–I wouldn’t know whether it increases "t"–but I suspect it might make you focus on it and be more "aware" of it.  (never liked the stuff myself–others might have a different view)

Response:

"ShrkAtty" <shrka…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20030529203653.14544.00000769@mb-m02.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Marcel Klein" <spu…@hotmail.com wrote: what (home made) things or activities are reported to help the T? like Foods, sports, what does not help(i heard MArijuana makes T

worse?)

i remember a posting sometime ago in this group where Users reported of what had helped them but cant find it on Google… thanks i. a. Marcel, Yeah . . . what Susanne said ;-) Add to that, anything that provides a serious distraction–if you’re

really

involved or focused on something–you will notice (later)–that there was

a

period of time in which you hadn’t noticed your "t."  Which leads to

another

question–during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is

it

there?

If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong. ;-) Robin (thinking of waxing my truck) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

RHaj  (waxing metaphysical ;-) NB–Pot’s kind of an "intropective" drug–(how long can you stare at your navel)–I wouldn’t know whether it increases "t"–but I suspect it might

make

you focus on it and be more "aware" of it.  (never liked the stuff myself–others might have a different view)

Response:

From: "Robin" Nos…@attbi.com –during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is it there? If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong. ;-) Robin (thinking of waxing my truck) RHaj  (waxing metaphysical ;-)

LOL!! (I’ll be Ms. Feine has something to say about that . . . as will Ms. Sourire ;-) D’ja get the new turbo-monstrosity??? (And I’ll have get back to you later about cigars, Cardhu, and the bends on Colfax . . . heading off now to the rock gym to work on my own "obsession.") RHaj

Response:

<Add to that, anything that provides a serious distraction–if you’re really

involved or focused on something–you will notice (later)–that there was

a

period of time in which you hadn’t noticed your "t."  Which leads to

another

question–during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is

it

there?

Marcel: Rhaj offers perhaps the best advice there is in the above statement. Heres a little more advice…. IGNORE **anything** you read here or receive via e-mail from a Stephen M. Nagler! This guy is a 50 time fuckin loser, peruse this board, and you’ll see what I mean. Kind Regards, Capt. Ron "ShrkAtty" <shrka…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20030529203653.14544.00000769@mb-m02.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Marcel Klein" <spu…@hotmail.com wrote: what (home made) things or activities are reported to help the T? like Foods, sports, what does not help(i heard MArijuana makes T

worse?)

i remember a posting sometime ago in this group where Users reported of what had helped them but cant find it on Google… thanks i. a. Marcel, Yeah . . . what Susanne said ;-) Add to that, anything that provides a serious distraction–if you’re

really

involved or focused on something–you will notice (later)–that there was

a

period of time in which you hadn’t noticed your "t."  Which leads to

another

question–during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is

it

there? RHaj  (waxing metaphysical ;-) NB–Pot’s kind of an "intropective" drug–(how long can you stare at your navel)–I wouldn’t know whether it increases "t"–but I suspect it might

make

you focus on it and be more "aware" of it.  (never liked the stuff myself–others might have a different view)

Response:

Depends whether she has PMS or not. "Susan Fein" <suf…@aol.comnospam

wrote in message

news:20030529214635.18497.00000309@mb-m05.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

x-no-archive: yes In article <k4yBa.44564$_t5.36…@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net, "Robin" <Nos…@attbi.com writes: If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong.

;-)

Yes. Susan

Response:

distraction is important. Should ALWAYS have music on – music that you like, esp "uplifting" broadway shows. for sleepingk, many persons do better falling asleep with the TV on. Regular exersise is good. You can have your B12 and thyroid levels checked to see if they need to be assisted. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Robin" <Nos…@attbi.com

wrote in message <news:k4yBa.44564$_t5.36654@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net… "ShrkAtty" <shrka…@aol.com wrote in message news:20030529203653.14544.00000769@mb-m02.aol.com… "Marcel Klein" <spu…@hotmail.com wrote: what (home made) things or activities are reported to help the T? like Foods, sports, what does not help(i heard MArijuana makes T  worse?) i remember a posting sometime ago in this group where Users reported of  what had helped them but cant find it on Google… thanks i. a. Marcel, Yeah . . . what Susanne said ;-) Add to that, anything that provides a serious distraction–if you’re  really involved or focused on something–you will notice (later)–that there was  a period of time in which you hadn’t noticed your "t."  Which leads to  another question–during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is  it there? RHaj  (waxing metaphysical ;-) NB–Pot’s kind of an "intropective" drug–(how long can you stare at your navel)–I wouldn’t know whether it increases "t"–but I suspect it might  make you focus on it and be more "aware" of it.  (never liked the stuff myself–others might have a different view) If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong. ;-) Robin (thinking of waxing my truck)

Don’t do it Robin. Don’t EVEN think about it. Next time she sees you she’ll know…. she’ll look into your eyes and she’ll know. Don’t say it, Robin. Bruce [waxing eerily]

Response:

"Susan Fein" <suf…@aol.comnospam

wrote in message

news:20030529214635.18497.00000309@mb-m05.aol.com…

x-no-archive: yes In article <k4yBa.44564$_t5.36…@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net, "Robin" <Nos…@attbi.com writes: If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong.

;-)

Yes. Susan

<<smile

Robin

Response:

"ShrkAtty" <shrka…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20030529211230.20861.00000271@mb-m02.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "Robin" Nos…@attbi.com –during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is it there? If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong.

;-)

Robin (thinking of waxing my truck) RHaj  (waxing metaphysical ;-) LOL!! (I’ll be Ms. Feine has something to say about that . . . as will Ms.

Sourire

;-) D’ja get the new turbo-monstrosity??? (And I’ll have get back to you later about cigars, Cardhu, and the bends

on

Colfax . . . heading off now to the rock gym to work on my own

"obsession.")

RHaj

Not yet… We seem to have a few disagreements (seller and I) We disagree that I want the truck as much as he thinks I do which causes our second disagreement. What numbers the loan calculator likes best. This one is not dead but he did not know how to respond when I told him fine….. guess we do not have a deal and then did not negotiate. He started explaining himself and saying this is how the numbers came out… I said "fine guess we do not have a deal but if in the very near future, before I buy another one, he could find someone to give me more on my trade to feel free to call me back" (grin) thus is the art of fighting without fighting. Got another deal I am working though. Right truck at the right price takes time………………. Have time is when I want.. instead of need ;-) "All negotiating power is lost if the party negotiating is not willing to walk away without making a deal" (forgot what book I got that out of) Robin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -shrka…@aol.com (ShrkAtty) wrote in message <news:20030529211230.20861.00000271@mb-m02.aol.com

… From: "Robin" Nos…@attbi.com –during those times that you aren’t "aware" of tinnitus . . . .is  it there? If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong. ;-) Robin (thinking of waxing my truck) RHaj  (waxing metaphysical ;-) LOL!! (I’ll be Ms. Feine has something to say about that . . . as will Ms. Sourire ;-) D’ja get the new turbo-monstrosity??? (And I’ll have get back to you later about cigars, Cardhu, and the bends on Colfax . . . heading off now to the rock gym to work on my own "obsession.") RHaj If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong. ;-) <<

Very likely:-))))))))) Susanne

Response:

sagesseinfinie2…@yahoo.com (Susanne  Sourire) wrote in message

If a man says something and there are no women around is he still wrong. ;-) << Very likely:-))))))))) Susanne

My wife said I was wrong in asking the question. Bruce

Response:

"Marcel Klein" <spu…@hotmail.com

wrote in message <news:bb5jh3$4umcn$1@ID-122860.news.dfncis.de… what (home made) things or activities are reported to help the T? like Foods, sports, what does not help(i heard MArijuana makes T worse?) i remember a posting sometime ago in this group where Users reported of what had helped them but cant find it on Google… thanks i. a.

———————- Hi Marcel, Welcome to the group. I find looking for humor in things helps me to get through the tough times. My friend Elly from Oz sometimes posts these tips below. Bruce Here’s some tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW):’ 1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. —————— 10 …. 9….. 8….. 7…… 6…… 5…… 4….. (to be cont’d) Bruce

Response:

Question for migraine sufferers

Question:

[snip] Jasmine, I "thought" I was suffering from FM, also had headaches, migraines, anxiety, all of what you mentioned.  As far as the FM went, I had all the trigger points.  Went to my doctor and he put me on the Candida diet.  I also had to take Nystatin,  ALL of my FM symptoms disappeared.  You might want to look into it, I have not had a single flare up since I did the Candida diet.  I’m sorry I don’t have the link right now, but if you Google the word Candida, you’ll get tons of info.  Might be worth it. Heather 195/188/145

Thanks Heather, I’m glad to hear your symptoms disappeared.  I’ve done lots of research on Candida.  Did you try a particular detox formula (i.e., ThreeLac) before you went on the diet?  I’ll have to ask my doctor about Nystatin. Be well, Jasmine

Response:

No worries, heather :) Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine Sorry to piggyback my own message.  I don’t want you to take my post the way it sounded.  I believe that people do suffer from FM, I didn’t mean that you only "thought" you had it.  Just didn’t want you to take it that way.  I had been diagnosed with it, just after the Candida diet my symptoms were gone. Take care, Heathe

Response:

Lenora, so glad to hear Atkins diet has helped you in so many ways :) Be well, Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Atkins since 08/12/02 and have had only one migrain in the past 7 months. I used to have two or three a month and they would last for days. That alone is worth the changes I have made in my eating habits. Added to that my skin has never looked better, so good that people actually comment on it! I still have the occaisional TOM breakout but no where as bad as it used to be. I am actually willing to go out in public without foundation on. Atkins isn’t "one size fits all" and "your mileage may vary" but read the book, give it three months and if you don’t like the changes in your body move on until you find a way of eating that works for you. take care, Lenora 168/142/130 08/12/02

Response:

[snip] I’m in the same (well, similar) boat. Migraine/chronic headache, fibromyalgia, depression. & all those serotonin-affecting drugs that control these. I’ve been low-carbing (carb addict’s diet) since last august/september (in response to a medication-assisted weight balloon — that is, gain) & have lost about 30 lbs, mostly before december (about 170 to about 140 — a big deal, at 5 ft even). A medication change (& some emotional stuff) in january sort of threw me off, but I haven’t gained anything, so that’s a plus. & I’m at the weight I was for a long time, when I decided I could be a little chubby if that’s what it took to feel healthy & sane (but I’m still looking to lose). I’ve found so far that I feel better when on diet

Good to hear you’re feeling better.  I hope it continues for you :)  Weight loss would be an added bonus, but it’s not why I want to follow a specified diet.  Chronic daily headaches and migraines – brought on by all sorts of triggers, not just food – weigh on my psyche so much. I have awful fragrance sensitivities that caused me to leave work.  Perfumes on coworkers were shooting my background pain up to unbearable.  I was leaving work early on a daily basis.  Finally I decided my health was more important than my paycheck, so here I am.  Being home is the only reason I’ve been able to detox off of meds.  I’m not 100%, but I feel better knowing there’s less crap flowing through my veins. — even with this miserably cold winter (although it’s still easier to get to sleep on top of my wonderfully thick down blanket, rather than under it). MUCH less acne (except sometimes that spot on my face where the cat licks me to get me up in the morning).

Yes, losing my adult acne would be another added bonus :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ve got a few food sensitivities that I don’t have — I can have some kinds of chocolate (and I like very dark chocolate, so I can still fit it in), control the caffeine thing by spacing my tea-drinking out through the day (because that’s the one thing I won’t give up, & it works), & don’t have a problem with soy. My only (non-fermented) dairy problem is lactose, which is easy to deal with. First, compare what you’ve been eating to one of the low-carb foods lists (I believe links are pointed out in the FAQ)& pick a diet — I sat down at the big-box bookstore near me & went through all the LC books I could find. I picked CAD because a)it seemed to me that my problem was the drug-mediated carb hunger and b)after all those years of watching what I ate to find migraine triggers, the  idea of counting carb grams was abhorrent. This matters — there’s a big difference between 20 carb grams per day & 1 carb serving with dinner (+salad, veggie, meat).

I envy that you could sit down and put it all together for yourself.  I need help in that department.  I just can’t seem to focus on it all. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can have eggs, chicken, beef, pork, other poultry & other meats, fish. Baked, stir-fried, roasted, poached… I have a little george foreman grill that’s nice.  If you google for kosher low-carb (there’s a yahoo list group), you can find meat recipes without cheese or other dairy (but, obviously, no pork). LOTS of veggies — I mostly eat various leafy greens & zucchini(at least in winter) — green beans are good, too. Frozen diced onions have already been blanched, so I can use these with no headache problem. Garlic. I found a brand of beef & turkey jerky (snackmasters)without nitrites or msg, which (with salad) is often lunch. Herbs & spices are your friends ;) — eggs are a bit less boring if you have mexican one day (+ chili powder), french the next (tarragon & thyme)… I haven’t had any problems with splenda (although I do taste an unpleasant aftertaste if there isn’t enough fat in the food). I haven’t had the courage to try ace-K, but all the other artificial sweeteners I’ve tried have been migraine-inducing. YMMV. And there’s another egg alternative — add splenda, vanilla extract, nutmeg & cinnamon to scrambled eggs (with water & a bit of cream, if you can — or actually, maybe ghee or a vegetable oil) & there’s a custard-like sweet breakfast. let’s see, what else… berries, depending on the diet. I often have frozen raspberries with dinner. Nuts, with limits (calories do still count — & there’s plenty of discussion of this on the board). Salad dressings — I like vinaigrettes, which are easy to make — oil, a (headache-safe) vinegar (I mostly avoid sulfites & red wine vinegars, but can have a bit of balsamic in addition to a white-wine vinaigrette). I don’t like the mayo-based salad dressings, but some of them are reportedly low-carb — just watch out for added cheese. Making them yourself would be safer, if you can.  I can take an ounce or so lemon or lime juice in a recipe — citrus oils, though, kill me. I can cook with white wine — makes a wonderful chicken soup! (And I’m a little more relaxed, since imitrex came on the market. Yes, I’m old. :) I have problems with food prep — I can’t rely on being able to (for example) peel & slice vegetables. That’s the FM. So I always have frozen veggies around, buy pre-cut & washed salads, keep chicken breasts (& sometimes individually frozen fish & beef) in the fridge. It costs more, but it’s better than going hungry or binging on whatever I can find that doesn’t need preparation (nuts, WAY more chocolate than I’d usually have,  berries, that ice cream bar in the back of the freezer that I’d forgotten about…). It doesn’t take any more energy to put a chicken breast & a splash of vinaigrette in the oven than it does to find that ice cream bar! I bought an electric whisk so that I can always make scrambled eggs. But you probably have that part of it down…

You’re absolutely right.  I’ve learned this more than ever since having FM on top of migraine pain. This turned out to be long! I’ll stop now. HTH. Rachel (now at optonline-dot-net)

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with me, Rachel. When I return my library books I’ll look up LC books. Be well, Jasmine

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine I’d read up on candida (yeast) overgrowth if I were you too based on all the antibiotics.  This could be a major source of some of your woes. Jennifer

Did you have to go there?  I personally think the makers of Monostat are "in bed" with the antibiotic makers…

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Nancy, so glad to hear your diet change has diminished your migraines :) Gives me hope!!! I used to work in research, and one of the scientists handed me a study regarding mega doses of magnesium helping migraineurs, so I gave it a try. I didn’t notice any change, so I moved on to the next ‘miracle’.  Everyone’s got the answer and yet millions continue to suffer.  Because everyone’s unique things will never work the same (diets, medications, treatments, etc.).  I won’t give up, though. Migraine is a neurological disease and there is no cure as of yet.  I’ll keep tinkering until I figure out what’s going on.  In the future I hope doctors can take my blood, know everything there is to know about me and administer individualized care. Be well, Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to get migraine equivalance – visual disturbances without the pain.  Since low-carbing, I’ve had almost none (only if I cheat). I’ve been low-carbing for 2 years now. :) I credit the diet, plus all the supplementation (especially magnesum) recommended by the Eades in _The Protein Power Lifeplan_.  If you haven’t already done so, you might want to check out the chapter, "The Magnesium Miracle."  Magnesium supplementation appears to have done wonders for many migraine-suffering friends. Nancy

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My wife used to have SEVERE headaches…as soon as she got on Atkins he headaches have come to an almost complete stop.

Boy do I wish I could say that!  I’ve had severe headaches for the past year, and in the past two weeks WOW do they suck worse!  Blinding… This just makes me wonder… How many carbs in a Fiorecet?  :(

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I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. You seem to have some really severe allergies, and if at all possible(?) you should get a test or something at your doctor or some other specialized person, well, get _several_ tests if you ask me. It’s really beyond this newsgroup to tell you what to eat.

Migraine triggers are not allergies. Getting back to the original poster, I have found that low-carbing has *greatly* reduced the frequency of my migraines.  Between atenalol and low-carbing, I only get hormonal ones any more.     From your list of triggers, it looks to me like you might be one of the people who has tyramine as the "fault" in many of your trigger foods.  If I were you, I’d research tyramine and stay away from anything which is a source of it.  But that leaves a lot of good food.  There are plenty of meats, dairy, and vegies which aren’t on your list and are low-carb.   Can you eat: beef, veal, pork, chicken, quail, duck, lamb, cream, fish (salmon, flounder, bluefish, turbot, tilapia, etc.), seafood (shrimp, scallops, clams, squid, etc.), eggs, cottage cheese, cream cheese, butter, milk, broccoli, cauliflour, cabbage, zucchini, summer squash, winter squash, bok choy, napa, green beans, sweet peppers, lettuce varieties, avocado, tomato, sprouts, cucumber, scallions, garlic, herbs, spices, nuts (walnuts, cashews, almonds, pecans, macadamia nuts), peanuts, and so on?   Just to suggest a few foods. Priscilla — "I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!"            – Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause

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Thank you, Mariposa.  I guess I should have mentioned all the different treatments I’ve tried and spent so much money on (acupuncture, NAET, hypnotherapy, biofeedback, tai-chi, yoga, magnesium, acidophilus, fibercon, manual lymphatic drainage massage, craniosacral therapy, physical therapy, MigrainPrevention formula which is a mix of supplements, Candida/Liver detox specific to migraine sufferers, etc.). Thanks for hoping I feel better ;) Be well, Jasmine

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friend is having serious migraines lately – she just had an MRI the other day. I found some sites to send her so I thought I might as well pass them on to you  - you probably already know all that, but it might be helpful – in the first link the accupressure thing really works well – I have had it take away headaches that I had for days… in minutes. The second link has supplements that are helpful. I have heard really good things about increasing magnesium. As for your actual question, someone else would probably have a better answer than me. I hope you feel better! http://www.about-migraine-treatments.com/html/getting_relief.php3 http://www.go-symmetry.com/health/migraine.htm

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Wonderful news, Budha.  I don’t deny that this diet helps many people – not only with their weight, but with certain ailments.  My frustration is with all the different specialists and diets out there, I have an awful time figuring out what I _can_ eat due to migraine triggers.  I literally need someone to sit down and figure it out for me because I want to crawl in the corner and bang my head against the wall. Thanks :) Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife used to have SEVERE headaches…as soon as she got on Atkins he headaches have come to an almost complete stop. I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

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Amy, that’s great news.  I hope this continues for you :)   You thought all those triggers were the culprit, but later found out it was blood sugar. How were you able to diminish the triggers effects on you?  Sorry, I need more info to understand :) Thanks, Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Atkins for 11 days….. not one Migraine since.  I used to get about 3 a week that would not go away without zomig.  I thought my triggers were aged cheese, msg, stress and eye fatique and caffeine withdrawl.  Apparently it may have been a blood sugar problem that caused them. Amy I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

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Thanks Jennifer, I’ve thought the same thing and have looked into Candida albicans.  Even went on a two-week detox (along with liver detox) a few years back.  I took these specially formulated supplements for three months (after the detox series), and found it did little for me.  I was on an elimination diet at the time as well, following a headache diet cookbook. The only thing I could think of as to why I wasn’t getting better would be that I was on medications at the same time.  I had to be in order to cope at work. I’ve detoxed off a lot of meds since then, and I’m considering starting over.  Just not sure where to start.  Do I work on my liver first or should I go right for the Candida detox?  What about colon cleanses for parasites? I’ve heard a lot of good things regarding ThreeLac.  Anyone else have a tip as to what order I should do this?  Anyone in San Diego, by the way? Thanks, Jasmine

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d read up on candida (yeast) overgrowth if I were you too based on all the antibiotics.  This could be a major source of some of your woes. Jennifer

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[snip] It’s really beyond this newsgroup to tell you what to eat.

That’s what I figured, but someone from my migraine ng thought I should give this place a try.  I understand how difficult it is to sit down and decide what I can eat.  That was my point.  I need to find someone who specializes in this, so they can work with me to figure it out.  My concentration sucks too bad to sit down and focus on all the different ‘recommendations’. What little I can offer is this: you seem to approximate the paleo diet (neanderthin) in your diet as processed foods, dairy, soy, chocolate and so on are banned from your diet (or at least they give you problems). Maybe adapting to its philosophy more consciously could help you? Here I’m specifically thinking about the idea that you should only eat those foods that are edible without any technological means other than your spear.

Easier said than done, but you have a point.  When I was vacationing in Nicaragua there were no processed foods around.  Just fresh fish, conch, lobster, bread fruit, star fruit, nothing processed.  It was heaven.  The pace of this particular island had a lot to do with the diet as well.  When stress levels are down, the body can better digest the food and absorb the nutrients.  Moving to an island is also easier said than done, but a girl can dream ;) My other frustration is exercise.  There’s a fine line between getting my heart rate up enough to mean something and getting an awful exertion headache.  My head will feel extremely hot and I can actually feel blood pumping (feels like someone squeezed 100 hearts in my head).  I don’t think that’s what pain is meant to represent in ‘no pain, no gain’. You’re all probably reading this thinking, ‘man, she’s got an excuse for everything.  what a lazy ass.’  shit, I’ve thought the same awful things about myself.  Am I using my pain as an excuse to sit on my ass.  I feel good – meaning the headaches are a nice background pain instead of awful pressure – for about five days out of the month.  Those days the cycle begins: I feel good enough to jog on my treadmill for 20 minutes.  The high I feel carries on through the day.  I start to think, ‘yes…it’s finally happening.  Let’s device a workout schedule and continue to eat the right foods.’  But then less than a week later, the hormones do their thing and my mood hits an awful low.  I can’t even get out of bed.  Did I put this on myself?  I mean, I felt so great last week.  Shit, I’m a failure…again. It _might_ help, but it is also clear to me that it would _not_ solve all your problems (there may be perfectly edible items as far as the general population is concerned, but you may find it toxic). Best of luck, Vad Paleo/Neanderthin since Oct. 2002 Eats meat, vegetables and fruit, nothing more, nothing less. (Most of the time)

Thanks Vad for your input.  And thanks for listening to me vent :) Be well, Jasmine

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[snip] Migraine triggers are not allergies. Getting back to the original poster, I have found that low-carbing has *greatly* reduced the frequency of my migraines.  Between atenalol and low-carbing, I only get hormonal ones any more.

That gives me a lot of hope, Priscilla.  Congratulations, by the way :) From your list of triggers, it looks to me like you might be one of the people who has tyramine as the "fault" in many of your trigger foods.  If I were you, I’d research tyramine and stay away from anything which is a source of it.  But that leaves a lot of good food.  There are plenty of meats, dairy, and vegies which aren’t on your list and are low-carb.

Dairy is on my list because my acupuncturist was a vegetarian, and swore I should stay away from dairy as well as beef.  I now drink rice milk because I was having reactions to soy milk.  I do cheat and eat eggs at times and cheddar cheese. Can you eat: beef, veal, pork, chicken, quail, duck, lamb, cream, fish (salmon, flounder, bluefish, turbot, tilapia, etc.), seafood (shrimp, scallops, clams, squid, etc.), eggs, cottage cheese, cream cheese, butter, milk, broccoli, cauliflour, cabbage, zucchini, summer squash, winter squash, bok choy, napa, green beans, sweet peppers, lettuce varieties, avocado, tomato, sprouts, cucumber, scallions, garlic, herbs, spices, nuts (walnuts, cashews, almonds, pecans, macadamia nuts), peanuts, and so on? Just to suggest a few foods.

Meats, poultry and fish are fine, but to stay away from triggers I have to prepare them fresh myself.  Because I’m usually in pain I can’t cook as much as I would like.  This is another frustration.  All of the dairy you mentioned should be omitted (due to my acupuncturist).  I do notice a discharge when I eat things like cottage cheese and yogurt.  Certain nuts (peanut butter) aren’t recommended.  Also forgot to mention aspertame is a well known trigger.  Here’s a quick headache diary if anyone’s interested: http://www.msnbc.com/modules/headache_foods/data/print.asp Priscilla — "I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!"        – Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause

Thanks for your input, Priscilla :) Be well, Jasmine

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I have been on Atkins for 11 days….. not one Migraine since.  I used to get about 3 a week that would not go away without zomig.  I thought my triggers were aged cheese, msg, stress and eye fatique and caffeine withdrawl.  Apparently it may have been a blood sugar problem that caused them. Amy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

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My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

I’d read up on candida (yeast) overgrowth if I were you too based on all the antibiotics.  This could be a major source of some of your woes. Jennifer

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I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet.

You seem to have some really severe allergies, and if at all possible(?) you should get a test or something at your doctor or some other specialized person, well, get _several_ tests if you ask me. It’s really beyond this newsgroup to tell you what to eat. What little I can offer is this: you seem to approximate the paleo diet (neanderthin) in your diet as processed foods, dairy, soy, chocolate and so on are banned from your diet (or at least they give you problems). Maybe adapting to its philosophy more consciously could help you? Here I’m specifically thinking about the idea that you should only eat those foods that are edible without any technological means other than your spear. It _might_ help, but it is also clear to me that it would _not_ solve all your problems (there may be perfectly edible items as far as the general population is concerned, but you may find it toxic). Best of luck, Vad Paleo/Neanderthin since Oct. 2002 Eats meat, vegetables and fruit, nothing more, nothing less. (Most of the time)

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I used to get migraine equivalance – visual disturbances without the pain.  Since low-carbing, I’ve had almost none (only if I cheat). I’ve been low-carbing for 2 years now. :) I credit the diet, plus all the supplementation (especially magnesum) recommended by the Eades in _The Protein Power Lifeplan_.  If you haven’t already done so, you might want to check out the chapter, "The Magnesium Miracle."  Magnesium supplementation appears to have done wonders for many migraine-suffering friends. Nancy

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I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

Jasmine, I "thought" I was suffering from FM, also had headaches, migraines, anxiety, all of what you mentioned.  As far as the FM went, I had all the trigger points.  Went to my doctor and he put me on the Candida diet.  I also had to take Nystatin,  ALL of my FM symptoms disappeared.  You might want to look into it, I have not had a single flare up since I did the Candida diet.  I’m sorry I don’t have the link right now, but if you Google the word Candida, you’ll get tons of info.  Might be worth it. Heather 195/188/145

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I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

Sorry to piggyback my own message.  I don’t want you to take my post the way it sounded.  I believe that people do suffer from FM, I didn’t mean that you only "thought" you had it.  Just didn’t want you to take it that way.  I had been diagnosed with it, just after the Candida diet my symptoms were gone. Take care, Heathe

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I have been on Atkins since 08/12/02 and have had only one migrain in the past 7 months. I used to have two or three a month and they would last for days. That alone is worth the changes I have made in my eating habits. Added to that my skin has never looked better, so good that people actually comment on it! I still have the occaisional TOM breakout but no where as bad as it used to be. I am actually willing to go out in public without foundation on. Atkins isn’t "one size fits all" and "your mileage may vary" but read the book, give it three months and if you don’t like the changes in your body move on until you find a way of eating that works for you. take care, Lenora 168/142/130 08/12/02

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I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

I’m in the same (well, similar) boat. Migraine/chronic headache, fibromyalgia, depression. & all those serotonin-affecting drugs that control these. I’ve been low-carbing (carb addict’s diet) since last august/september (in response to a medication-assisted weight balloon — that is, gain) & have lost about 30 lbs, mostly before december (about 170 to about 140 — a big deal, at 5 ft even). A medication change (& some emotional stuff) in january sort of threw me off, but I haven’t gained anything, so that’s a plus. & I’m at the weight I was for a long time, when I decided I could be a little chubby if that’s what it took to feel healthy & sane (but I’m still looking to lose). I’ve found so far that I feel better when on diet — even with this miserably cold winter (although it’s still easier to get to sleep on top of my wonderfully thick down blanket, rather than under it). MUCH less acne (except sometimes that spot on my face where the cat licks me to get me up in the morning). You’ve got a few food sensitivities that I don’t have — I can have some kinds of chocolate (and I like very dark chocolate, so I can still fit it in), control the caffeine thing by spacing my tea-drinking out through the day (because that’s the one thing I won’t give up, & it works), & don’t have a problem with soy. My only (non-fermented) dairy problem is lactose, which is easy to deal with. First, compare what you’ve been eating to one of the low-carb foods lists (I believe links are pointed out in the FAQ)& pick a diet — I sat down at the big-box bookstore near me & went through all the LC books I could find. I picked CAD because a)it seemed to me that my problem was the drug-mediated carb hunger and b)after all those years of watching what I ate to find migraine triggers, the  idea of counting carb grams was abhorrent. This matters — there’s a big difference between 20 carb grams per day & 1 carb serving with dinner (+salad, veggie, meat). You can have eggs, chicken, beef, pork, other poultry & other meats, fish. Baked, stir-fried, roasted, poached… I have a little george foreman grill that’s nice.  If you google for kosher low-carb (there’s a yahoo list group), you can find meat recipes without cheese or other dairy (but, obviously, no pork). LOTS of veggies — I mostly eat various leafy greens & zucchini(at least in winter) — green beans are good, too. Frozen diced onions have already been blanched, so I can use these with no headache problem. Garlic. I found a brand of beef & turkey jerky (snackmasters)without nitrites or msg, which (with salad) is often lunch. Herbs & spices are your friends ;) — eggs are a bit less boring if you have mexican one day (+ chili powder), french the next (tarragon & thyme)… I haven’t had any problems with splenda (although I do taste an unpleasant aftertaste if there isn’t enough fat in the food). I haven’t had the courage to try ace-K, but all the other artificial sweeteners I’ve tried have been migraine-inducing. YMMV. And there’s another egg alternative — add splenda, vanilla extract, nutmeg & cinnamon to scrambled eggs (with water & a bit of cream, if you can — or actually, maybe ghee or a vegetable oil) & there’s a custard-like sweet breakfast. let’s see, what else… berries, depending on the diet. I often have frozen raspberries with dinner. Nuts, with limits (calories do still count — & there’s plenty of discussion of this on the board). Salad dressings — I like vinaigrettes, which are easy to make — oil, a (headache-safe) vinegar (I mostly avoid sulfites & red wine vinegars, but can have a bit of balsamic in addition to a white-wine vinaigrette). I don’t like the mayo-based salad dressings, but some of them are reportedly low-carb — just watch out for added cheese. Making them yourself would be safer, if you can.  I can take an ounce or so lemon or lime juice in a recipe — citrus oils, though, kill me. I can cook with white wine — makes a wonderful chicken soup! (And I’m a little more relaxed, since imitrex came on the market. Yes, I’m old. :) I have problems with food prep — I can’t rely on being able to (for example) peel & slice vegetables. That’s the FM. So I always have frozen veggies around, buy pre-cut & washed salads, keep chicken breasts (& sometimes individually frozen fish & beef) in the fridge. It costs more, but it’s better than going hungry or binging on whatever I can find that doesn’t need preparation (nuts, WAY more chocolate than I’d usually have,  berries, that ice cream bar in the back of the freezer that I’d forgotten about…). It doesn’t take any more energy to put a chicken breast & a splash of vinaigrette in the oven than it does to find that ice cream bar! I bought an electric whisk so that I can always make scrambled eggs. But you probably have that part of it down… This turned out to be long! I’ll stop now. HTH. Rachel (now at optonline-dot-net)

Response:

My wife used to have SEVERE headaches…as soon as she got on Atkins he headaches have come to an almost complete stop.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

My friend is having serious migraines lately – she just had an MRI the other day. I found some sites to send her so I thought I might as well pass them on to you  - you probably already know all that, but it might be helpful – in the first link the accupressure thing really works well – I have had it take away headaches that I had for days… in minutes. The second link has supplements that are helpful. I have heard really good things about increasing magnesium. As for your actual question, someone else would probably have a better answer than me. I hope you feel better! http://www.about-migraine-treatments.com/html/getting_relief.php3 http://www.go-symmetry.com/health/migraine.htm

Response:

I have many migraine trigger, such as cured meats, aged cheeses, MSG, chocolate, alcohol, caffeine, soy, dairy, citrus, wheat, etc.  I’m hoping someone here can help me figure out what I CAN eat in order to maintain a low carb diet. My health has become worse through the years.  As a child I had multiple bouts of strep throat, some bronchitis, and basically grew up on antibiotics.  Today I have chronic daily headache, migraines, Fibromyalgia, anxiety, awful acne, etc.  I am 5′6" and weigh about 194 lbs. Thank you in advance for any advice :)  Congratulations to all of you seeing positive results with you low carb diet. Be well, Jasmine

Response:

curious what your thoughts might be on a deep tissue massage taking place say within 3 or 4 hours after

Question:

I was curious what your thoughts might be on a deep tissue massage taking place say within 3 or 4 hours after a 20 mile long run. My massage therapist thought that it might be too close to the end of a long run to have that type of massage and she recommended possibly just a muscle draining lighter massage lymphatic, whatever that means. I guess I could have waited a day or two. It appears that typically I will probably only ever want a deep tissue massage because psychologically it sounds very effective and that is probably the only type of massage I will ever subscribe to thinking that it is probably the best deal or the best value. I appreciate any thoughts you might have. Thank you for your input. It will be interesting to see if my delayed onset muscle soreness is as severe as normal now that I had this massage done within hours after my long run or maybe it will be more because of the massage. Then again maybe my massage therapist so far maybe on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being a massage that leaves you sore because it was so powerful. Maybe I’ve yet to find a massage therapist that typically does such a powerful massage. Maybe the gal that I am using is not as powerful. Maybe I should continue to shop around. She didn’t think I should feel typically sore after a deep tissue massage normally, but whatever. Thank you again.

Response:

My massage therapist thought that it might be too close to the end of a long run to have that type of massage and she recommended possibly just a muscle draining lighter massage lymphatic, whatever that means.

It means "no blow job". Bill R. @@

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was curious what your thoughts might be on a deep tissue massage taking place say within 3 or 4 hours after a 20 mile long run. My massage therapist thought that it might be too close to the end of a long run to have that type of massage and she recommended possibly just a muscle draining lighter massage lymphatic, whatever that means. I guess I could have waited a day or two. It appears that typically I will probably only ever want a deep tissue massage because psychologically it sounds very effective and that is probably the only type of massage I will ever subscribe to thinking that it is probably the best deal or the best value. I appreciate any thoughts you might have. Thank you for your input. It will be interesting to see if my delayed onset muscle soreness is as severe as normal now that I had this massage done within hours after my long run or maybe it will be more because of the massage. Then again maybe my massage therapist so far maybe on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being a massage that leaves you sore because it was so powerful. Maybe I’ve yet to find a massage therapist that typically does such a powerful massage. Maybe the gal that I am using is not as powerful. Maybe I should continue to shop around. She didn’t think I should feel typically sore after a deep tissue massage normally, but whatever. Thank you again.

……they will literally attack the problem area by going across the muscle(90 degrees).  This is one of the reasons I suggested to the original poster not to try this at home. You better know what the hell We used to do this to each other as kids.  We called it "indian sunburn".  Ouch. Owen McCall

From my experience of fascial release, the feeling is the same as the "indian burn."  From my understanding of transverse friction, rubbing across the muscle, has more to do with working on the area where the muscle tissue has scarred. Just checked what Brian said and I think we’re in agreement on the cross fiber friction: Excuse me if this is a totally stupid question, but what is the difference between cross-friction and regular sports massage (if any)?

Cross-fiber friction (as it’s more widely known) is a specific technique for breaking up scar tissue in muscles and tendons that may be binding more fibrils than were originally damaged. (You get microtearing every time you work out.) Too much scar tissue means less mobility and more pain. It’s one of many techniques your sports massage specialist will use. Other MTs and some folks in other fields use it as well. It’s an important tool for pain management. That’s about right. Going "with the muscle" helps spread the fibers apart and let more nourishing blood in; at least that’s how I understand it. (The exact physiological effects of massage are not clearly understood.) Specific, deep cross-fiber work seems to increase mobility and lessen pain in the long run. Of course all sorts of gliding and kneading can go in all directions. Soft tissue responds to all sorts of touch. Best regards, Brian Baresch Sports massage and so forth Lawrence, Kansas, USA

Response:

She didn’t think I should feel typically sore after a deep tissue massage normally, but whatever. Thank you again.

From Brian back in 1996 Newsgroups: rec.running Organization: SouthWind Internet Access, Inc. Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: ict75.southwind.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I’m a 38-year-old male who runs about 2-4 times a week (about 20 miles/week) and is feeling those leg muscles aching more and more often after a workout. Many people I know heartily recommend massage after a hard workout (more often if possible), but this gets expensive. The book The Healing Art of Sports Massage (by someone named Johnson) was recommended very highly to me; among other things I was told it contained massage techniques you could do yourself.   Anyone familiar with this book or others like it? Can a person really do useful massage on themselves? It almost sounds too good to be true . .

.   I haven’t seen that book; I was warned away from it by a top sports massage therapist in Colorado. I don’t remember why but respect the person who told me. As for massage in general, which types are best for helping muscles recover after running?  

Right after a workout (like in the hour or two after you finish) you’d need some specific techniques designed for post-event work. Generall that means light compression (pushing into the muscle toward the bone) to spread the muscle fibers, and gliding strokes toward the heart (e.g. from knee to hip). Most "Swedish" massage will do you some good at other times, although it’s best to find someone with sports massage experience so they can tailor the work for you. There’s a good book called _Performance Massage_ by Robert K. King that explains basic sports massage quite well; it doesn’t include self-massage (which is difficult to do thoroughly) but would be good to read with a fellow runner; then the two of you can trade. Good luck. Best regards, Brian P. Baresch, National Sports Massage Team speaking for myself

Response:

She didn’t think I should feel typically sore after a deep tissue massage normally, but whatever. Thank you again.

Newsgroups: rec.running While they’re at it, I do hope they find a good explanation for my experience.

I’ll give it a shot.  You said, a month ago: "Calves. My calves are chronically tight. However, massaging them (even lightly) is sufficiently full of YOWZA…."         One of the tenets of massage therapy is that you should be able to squeeze your muscles fairly hard and not get any pain.  You can probably do this for any muscles that you don’t use in running.  I get pain in many running muscles when I dig.  Not too good, but not so bad.         BUT, a simple massage of your muscles was full of pain?  That’s not good at all.  As the great Oz would say, one reason for Achilles tendonitis is tight calves (gastrocnemius), causing pulling on your Achilles’ tendon.  I don’t know about massage for *treating* plantar fasciitis, but I have twice read that massage will prevent it.  Same principle — the massage loosens the muscles, so that they don’t pull out of wherever they pull out of.  I am not sure exactly what shin splints are — I have read they can be different things — but they are in the lower leg.         So, one thing to try is massage.  Ozzie frequently posts a gentle, loving massage for the calves; I suggest some serious squeezing and digging.  The largest muscle in the calf is the two gastrocnemius, but there are also soleus and other muscles running up underneath it, including one that it part of the arch in the foot.  There are more muscles in the front.  And more, but that’s probably sufficient.         CONTRAINDICATIONS/WARNINGS.  Standard advice is not to massage a tendon (e.g., the Achilles’ tendon).  I suspect it is harmless but does no good.  My brother (a massage therapist) claims he does it, but I suspect he is really massaging the muscles underneath.  Standard advice is either to avoid the knee or avoid any place that has a pulse. Apparently you don’t want to squeeze an artery or vein against a sharp bone.  For the muscle that is just outside the front shin bone, standard advice is to NOT massage away from the bone.  So just rub this muscle towards the bone.  Standard advice is to massage towards the heart, rather than away (though massaging across the muscle is fine). Bob "what is the plural of gastrocnemius?" Frick I was advised to lay off running for a while when I went to the podiatrist with incipient shin splints. Four weeks, eight treatments, several dollars beyond my budget  and one run later — I have the original incipient shin splints, full-blown achilles tendonitis and nascent plantar fasciitis. All this with only electrical stimulation, pressure treatments, whirlpool treatments, ibuprofen, "natural" anti-inflammatories, ankle braces, acupuncture and massage to help me. Much more conservative podiatric treatment and avoiding running, I’ll be completely disabled. Madeleine "waddya mean, I sound cranky? Of *course* I’m not bloody cranky. Only a fool would accuse me of being cranky. Call me cranky again and I’ll really hurt you" Page

– http://www.psy.sunysb.edu/rfrick/ statistical testing, dyslexia, running & glutamine, flow & intuition

Response:

I was curious what your thoughts might be on a deep tissue massage taking place say within 3 or 4 hours after a 20 mile long run. My massage therapist thought that it might be too close to the end of a long run to have that type of massage and she recommended possibly just a muscle draining lighter massage lymphatic, whatever that means.

Your MT is correct, a "deep" massage that close to a long run or race is too much. OTOH, a "light" massage immediately after an event/run can be very beneficial. Ask any pro football, hockey etc. player. If you cash drawer is long on greenbacks by all means give it a shot. I guess I could have waited a day or two. It appears that typically I will probably only ever want a deep tissue massage because psychologically it sounds very effective and that is probably the only type of massage I will ever subscribe to thinking that it is probably the best deal or the best value.

When you introduce value you are now long on desire and shorter on cash. :)  FWIW, I have been using Massage Therapy   for about 12 years. At first I only went when I had a problem that would slow or sideline my running. After a few years of my MT explaining(bitch slapping me) the benefits of massage as a "preventive" measure I woke up. Today I try to go 4-6 times a year with some of them carefully timed. In general, I try to go at least once every quarter just to get the knots(yes, there are many) sprung before they get worse. Sure stretching helps but unless you are the most thorough stretcher, you will not get them all. In addition I schedule a massage about 7-10 days before a key race for a real thorough deep massage. You are typically in your taper phase and cutting back on effort anyway. That week buffer allows whatever she/he did to completely recover. I also schedule one for about two days after the race. By the second day the delayed onset has set in and the light massage of those troublesome areas not only removes the discomfort but helps you recover faster. I appreciate any thoughts you might have. Thank you for your input. It will be interesting to see if my delayed onset muscle soreness is as severe as normal now that I had this massage done within hours after my long run or maybe it will be more because of the massage.

I would bet it helps assuming you have experience to compare. Then again maybe my massage therapist so far maybe on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being a massage that leaves you sore because it was so powerful. Maybe I’ve yet to find a massage therapist that typically does such a powerful massage.

You are walking a fine line on the degree of massage effort. Lots of variables involved. Deep does not simply imply that the MT tries to press three inches into your muscle at every point. The degree of post soreness is dependent on your tightness and knotting. Just like the pros, if you had one every few days, you would keep all soreness at bay and have very little suffering(sore spots). If you wait months some areas need lots of work. Lots of work means  cross friction or big knot removable meaning ice and no running for a day or so. There also a lot for the MT technique. I had some early MT’s, especially macho males that think a knot has to be removed in two or less seconds. A good MT can sense the fine line and work slowly at the tender spots to minimize the tears. Maybe the gal that I am using is not as powerful. Maybe I should continue to shop around. She didn’t think I should feel typically sore after a deep tissue massage normally, but whatever.

If your only experience was after your long run she went very easy as she should have. Any deeper and she would have done damage. She gets a A. Try her after some very easy days   of running. Hopefully Brian B will offer some additional thoughts. I think he usta be one of dem. ;) — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you introduce value you are now long on desire and shorter on cash. :)  FWIW, I have been using Massage Therapy   for about 12 years. At first I only went when I had a problem that would slow or sideline my running. After a few years of my MT explaining(bitch slapping me) the benefits of massage as a "preventive" measure I woke up. Today I try to go 4-6 times a year with some of them carefully timed. In general, I try to go at least once every quarter just to get the knots(yes, there are many) sprung before they get worse. Sure stretching helps but unless you are the most thorough stretcher, you will not get them all. In addition I schedule a massage about 7-10 days before a key race for a real thorough deep massage. You are typically in your taper phase and cutting back on effort anyway. That week buffer allows whatever she/he did to completely recover. I also schedule one for about two days after the race. By the second day the delayed onset has set in and the light massage of those troublesome areas not only removes the discomfort but helps you recover faster.

Besides using all the folklore I’ve picked up over the years on working out sore or tight muscles; or working on fascial release, like Doug I’ve been going to my Rolfer, Victor Geberin, about 22 years.  I go once a month which allows me to see how the little idiocyncracies get locked into muscle memory and fascial shortening. In my mind’s eye, this has been one of the best investments in maintaining my body so that bad habits or movement patterns are less likely to stop me from running and keeping good posture.  It’s an on going process. Alexander Technique Feldendrais Method Mensendieck Work Tai Chi Yoga Pilates Mattes & Wharton on Active Isolated Stretching Bob Anderson’s Stretching Whatever process you use, along with massage, and self message, it is most helpful if the person’s folklore is such that they are helping you learn how to take care of your body as it moves through space. Back to what I’ve said several hundred times around rec.running:   If you think  you’re doing something right, and it’s incorrect; you won’t change what you’re doing . You’ll end up injuring yourself very well.  You won’t know why it happened, nor will you know how long you were working on it to sustain the injury by doing the movement or exercise incorrectly. In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running:   http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/

Response:

I'm thinking about moving to Bethlehem (not PA) for a little peace and quiet …

Question:

oh poo "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020423180605.20530.00005310@mb-ma.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

People who use Free Agent do not have a kill file. Sure they do.  The

proof

is here Jack- she’s from down under.  those folks down there don’t read so well…

Response:

BlueM0ZARK  < The closest that you will find to a

"tinnitus expert" is Capt. Ron or myself. I’ve had tinnitus over 20 yrs.

I see.  I’ve only had tinnitus for seven years, so you must be almost three times more knowledgeable than I. DH

Response:

<I see.  I’ve only had tinnitus for seven years, so you must be almost three times more knowledgeable than I.

being a smartass will get you nowhere fast

Response:

We got us a regular lovefest goin on here.  This is too damn funny! "Capt. Ron Yoli" <bests…@peoplepc.com

wrote in message

news:ucc1vlgre6qf9e@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Simply meaning that we have a hell of a lot more > experience with tinnitus than the self proclaimed "tinnitus experts". > Gotcha :-) > Capt. Ron > "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com

wrote in message

> news:20020423211236.17933.00005329@mb-fk.aol.com… > > <I hate to disagree with you, but neither of us is an "expert" on > tinnitus> > > I said "closest to".  Simply meaning that we have a hell of a lot more > > experience with tinnitus than the self proclaimed "tinnitus experts".

Response:

You’d be better off asking questions here: http://pub21.ezboard.com/ftinnituscommunitymessageboardfrm1

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds  relief in shoving a jazz trumpet up his bot 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.  21. http://www.goatse.cx/             Tinnitus is a pain up the hole

Response:

i’m with YOU captain ! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Nagleass "baits" people into believing that he can help them with his

voodoo

bullshit as put forth by that fat asshole, Jastreboff, and thus how he

pays

for his lifestyle after his failed career as a REAL doctor!

Response:

"Elly Byrne" <e…@eebee.cjb.net.noway

wrote in message

news:lmfbcu042g48k952gd10pea1q43u31pkid@4ax.com…

People who use Free Agent do not have a kill file.

Tips from members of the Australian Tinnitus Association (NSW) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds  relief in shoving a jazz trumpet up his bot 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis.  21. http://www.goatse.cx/             Tinnitus is a pain up the hole

Response:

<My ENT cured my tinnitus

Then you didn’t have tinnitus. Because…there is no cure.

Response:

<I hate to disagree with you, but neither of us is an "expert" on tinnitus

I said "closest to".  Simply meaning that we have a hell of a lot more experience with tinnitus than the self proclaimed "tinnitus experts".

Response:

Simply meaning that we have a hell of a lot more experience with tinnitus than the self proclaimed "tinnitus experts". Gotcha :-) Capt. Ron "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020423211236.17933.00005329@mb-fk.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

<I hate to disagree with you, but neither of us is an "expert" on

tinnitus

I said "closest to".  Simply meaning that we have a hell of a lot more experience with tinnitus than the self proclaimed "tinnitus experts".

Response:

The closest that you will find to a  "tinnitus expert" is Capt. Ron or myself. Blue, I hate to disagree with you, but neither of us is an "expert" on tinnitus. Like I said, there are NO EXPERTS, PERIOD. HOWEVER, we both have suffered enough to offer suggestions and tell our personal stories to others   …….  IF THE "TREATMENT WHORES" would get off this board and get a life! Will that ever happen here again?  Who knows.  As long as Nagler continues to show his pathetic face here, I doubt it. He just gets our blood pressure up. Cheers Capt. Ron "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020423205913.17933.00005317@mb-fk.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

<quick question, who do you consider an ‘expert’?  I know who is not considered an expert, who is one? None of these so-called professionals are "tinnitus experts"  NONE OF THEM. The closest that you will find to a "tinnitus expert" is Capt. Ron or myself. I’ve had tinnitus over 20 yrs.

Response:

<quick question, who do you consider an ‘expert’?  I know who is not considered an expert, who is one?

None of these so-called professionals are "tinnitus experts"  NONE OF THEM. The closest that you will find to a "tinnitus expert" is Capt. Ron or myself. I’ve had tinnitus over 20 yrs.  

Response:

My ENT cured my tinnitus. "Capt. Ron Yoli" <bests…@peoplepc.com

wrote in message

news:ucbvhc7mhcg43e@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I know who is not considered an expert, who is one? Ahhhhhhhhh You are starting to "get the point"  DH! THERE ARE NO EXPERTS WHEN IT COMES TO TINNITUS! NONE, ZERO NADA!  And Fuck anyone that says there are! Ask any qualified ENT! That is the point!  Nagleass has "proclaimed" himself an "expert" and

preys

on people that are suffering terribly from tinnitus! Tinnitus sufferers are generally a desperate lot!  It is a major cause of suicide! Nagleass "baits" people into believing that he can help them with his

voodoo

bullshit as put forth by that fat asshole, Jastreboff, and thus how he

pays > for his lifestyle after his failed career as a REAL doctor! > Good enough answer for ya? > Cheers > Capt. Ron > "D_W_H" <DoNotSendM…@home.nl

wrote in message

> news:btlx8.53666$58.3784781@zwoll1.home.nl… > > BlueMozart, > > quick question, who do you consider an ‘expert’?  I know who is not > > considered an expert, who is one? > > Who can post here as an expert and not get flamed? > > DH

Response:

I know who is not

considered an expert, who is one?

Ahhhhhhhhh You are starting to "get the point"  DH! THERE ARE NO EXPERTS WHEN IT COMES TO TINNITUS! NONE, ZERO NADA!  And Fuck anyone that says there are! Ask any qualified ENT! That is the point!  Nagleass has "proclaimed" himself an "expert" and preys on people that are suffering terribly from tinnitus! Tinnitus sufferers are generally a desperate lot!  It is a major cause of suicide! Nagleass "baits" people into believing that he can help them with his voodoo bullshit as put forth by that fat asshole, Jastreboff, and thus how he pays for his lifestyle after his failed career as a REAL doctor! Good enough answer for ya? Cheers Capt. Ron "D_W_H" <DoNotSendM…@home.nl

wrote in message

news:btlx8.53666$58.3784781@zwoll1.home.nl… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BlueMozart, > quick question, who do you consider an ‘expert’?  I know who is not

considered an expert, who is one?

> Who can post here as an expert and not get flamed? > DH

Response:

BlueMozart, quick question, who do you consider an ‘expert’?  I know who is not considered an expert, who is one? Who can post here as an expert and not get flamed? DH

Response:

People who use Free Agent do not have a kill file. Sure they do.  The proof

is here

Jack- she’s from down under.  those folks down there don’t read so well…

Response:

The board is actually a good example of what tinnitus can be like — useful information getting through amid all the noise : ). But MasterBlaster, I have read in several places that if you get a unilateral noise in particular like yours seems to be, it is a good idea to get it checked out because it could be an indication of something else (like a blocked eustachian tube, for example) that could have an available treatment. In my right ear, I get what sounds like a "big band" radio station that is just out of the reach of my ability to understand it.  In that ear I have no normal hearing at all.  At least if my mind is going to play tricks on me, it didn’t pick too dastardly a trick to play. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"MasterBlaster" <Nobody’s.H…@My.Place

wrote in message <news:VRax8.10790$n%4.658805@news2.telusplanet.net… "D_W_H" wrote I also realize if I make any remarks about … tone or language, I will be flamed in no uncertain terms as this _is_ a news group. I guess if I find this news group not to my liking, I can leave, and that is my plan.  I really didn’t want to, but this is like walking through a field of land mines. I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion, and I’ve only been reading the group for a week or so, due to the classic "TV squeal" that started up in my left ear a few weeks back. I don’t know if I should even bother asking any questions.

Response:

"Elly Byrne" wrote

You’d be better off asking questions here: http://pub21.ezboard.com/ftinnituscommunitymessageboardfrm1

Yep, that’s one of the 3 (so far) sites I’m wading through.

Response:

<Yep, that’s one of the 3 (so far) sites I’m wading through

wade thru this… Good advice for anyone "not" familiar with what is happening is to refrain from jumping in and posting at random. The reason there is turmoil here is because a number of us didn’t like treatment being shoved down our throats by some so-called "professionals", and the disabled being told they were not desiring to get better cause they didn’t try every "reasonable treatment." Guess who gets to define reasonable treatment? These so-called "professionals" toss around "success" stories and none of the data they spew comes from real life studies. They call this "science" and in reality it is garbage.  They told the disabled that if they didn’t try every reasonable treatment, they should not get disability benefits. Plus, these so-called "professionals" have zero compassion, and simply aren’t decent human beings. Some of us keep pointing that out. When they leave permanently and forever, this turmoil on alt.support.tinnitus will stop. The biggest trouble maker, Nagler – has promised to leave "many" times. He lied. He’s back. And that’s why you see what you do and it’s not going to stop till Nagler and his minions are gone. They have worn out their welcome and harm far more than they help. Nagler has no formal training in otolaryngology. After a year in bed with tinnitus ( apparently !) , he set himself up as a TRT specialist, offering a discredited expensive treatment called TRT. He spends most of his waking hours policing the tinnitus message boards on the net. You may ask does he actually do ANY work !!! However be aware that the publicity he gets freely on the net is fuel for his TRT business in Atlanta. *NAGLER* to someone with tinnitus who disagreed with him about TRT:’ You are going to rot in hell for eternity with your ears screamingat 100 dB,but not before your buddies in the penal institution intowhich youare undoubtedly headed knock your teeth out and then over andover and over again teach you the only thing your vile mouth is good for’ *NAGLER* to someone asking about what jobs he tried to perform forincome during his one year in bed:"I’m finished answering your questions.  And I’m finished trying tohelp and provide insight on this board.  Now go to hell, Jack." *NAGLER* speaking to a woman about a subject they disagreed on: "You are a horrible woman, [name witheld]." *NAGLER* to someone who announced he had received Social Securitybenefits: "You irresponsible bastard.  Go get a job." *NAGLER* speaking of tinnitus disability: "But tinnitus in and of itself does not make you disabled to theextent that you cannot find some employment somewhere.  And if you cando that, you ain’t disabled enough according to the US government toget a free ride, however meager that free ride might be." *NAGLER* responding to a post by someone tried to help explain theSocial Security process:" [name witheld] is spiritually dead by his own hand, folks" *NAGLER* leaving – again – in 1999: "Either way, I’m out of this place." Dr. Stephen Nagler was banned from participating on the Tinnitus Support Message Board due to irreconcilable differences over board policy and repeated violations of posted rules. This ban was the result of a unanimous vote by 11 administrators from five different countries.

Response:

<So learn how to use your killfile.  Big whoooooop

I agree

Response:

People who use Free Agent do not have a kill file. High Flight <j…@apk.net

wrote: D_W_H <DoNotSendM…@home.nl says… I also realize if I make any remarks about … tone or language, I will be flamed in no uncertain terms as this _is_ a news group. I guess if I find this news group not to my liking, I can leave, and that is my plan.  I really didn’t want to, but this is like walking through a field of land mines. So learn how to use your killfile.  Big whoooooop.                            Jack

            Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

You’d be better off asking questions here: http://pub21.ezboard.com/ftinnituscommunitymessageboardfrm1 "MasterBlaster" <Nobody’s.H…@My.Place

wrote: "D_W_H" wrote I also realize if I make any remarks about … tone or language, I will be flamed in no uncertain terms as this _is_ a news group. I guess if I find this news group not to my liking, I can leave, and that is my plan.  I really didn’t want to, but this is like walking through a field of land mines. I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion, and I’ve only been reading the group for a week or so, due to the classic "TV squeal" that started up in my left ear a few weeks back. I don’t know if I should even bother asking any questions.

            Tinnitus is a pain in the neck Elly’s Tinnitus Snippets http://www.eebee.net/ http://www.tinnitusrelief.net/ http://www.alexandertechnique.com For email: eebee at bigfoot.com

Response:

"MasterBlaster" <Nobody’s.H…@My.Place

wrote in message <news:VRax8.10790$n%4.658805@news2.telusplanet.net… "D_W_H" wrote I also realize if I make any remarks about … tone or language, I will be flamed in no uncertain terms as this _is_ a news group. I guess if I find this news group not to my liking, I can leave, and that is my plan.  I really didn’t want to, but this is like walking through a field of land mines. I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion, and I’ve only been reading the group for a week or so, due to the classic "TV squeal" that started up in my left ear a few weeks back. I don’t know if I should even bother asking any questions.

Dave, There is another support group at tinnitusinfo.org. It’s the tinnitus support message board.No flaming or baiting allowed. Nice people. Check it out. April

Response:

After spending a little time here (posting and lurking), I gather that there is no _real_  solution for tinnitus.  I figured that out on my own years ago, but figured I’d see if anything was new under the sun.  I have learned that some people offer a treatment which only offers dealing with the irritation of the ‘noise’ and not the root cause, per se.  If I am mistaken about that, e-mail me privately (do a google search using my name, first hit)  and explain in _simple_,  _clear_ language how this treatment works. I also realize if I make any remarks about … tone or language, I will be flamed in no uncertain terms as this _is_ a news group. I guess if I find this news group not to my liking, I can leave, and that is my plan.  I really didn’t want to, but this is like walking through a field of land mines. Dave Horne – The Netherlands

Response:

"D_W_H" wrote

I also realize if I make any remarks about … tone or language, I will be flamed in no uncertain terms as this _is_ a news group. I guess if I find this news group not to my liking, I can leave, and that is my plan.  I really didn’t want to, but this is like walking through a field of land mines.

I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion, and I’ve only been reading the group for a week or so, due to the classic "TV squeal" that started up in my left ear a few weeks back. I don’t know if I should even bother asking any questions.

Response:

tips

Question:

1.  Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker 3.  Keep busy, active and interested;  especially in something YOU enjoy.  Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic motto. 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible;  reorganise your lifestyle to be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead.  Resolve emotional problems. 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily;  make them part of daily living. 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better masking. 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, running streams, fountains.  A Tai-Chi music tape might help. 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile.  Exercise reduces stress. 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their meaning.  Learn more! Recite out loud too. 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds relief in playing a jazz trumpet. 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures fit perfectly. 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. 18. Healthy diet.  Low salt. 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else in the room. 20. Try various therapies:  Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, acu-pressure, hypnosis. 21.  http://fotm.rotten.com/fotm/auralsex.html

Response:

. 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies : : 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker : : 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU : enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence : : 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, : eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic : motto. : : 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to : be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve : emotional problems. : : 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part : of daily living. : : 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. : Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better : masking. : : 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, : air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. : : 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature : tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, : running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. : : 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. : : 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces : stress. : : 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. : : 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their : meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. : : 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. : : 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds : relief in playing a jazz trumpet. : : 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no : tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures : fit perfectly. : : 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. : : 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. : : 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else : in the room. : : 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, : acu-pressure, hypnosis. : : 21. http://www.oswego.edu/~jpeck/prime/

Response:

 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies : : 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker : : 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU : enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence : : 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, : eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic : motto. : : 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to : be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve : emotional problems. : : 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part : of daily living. : : 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. : Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better : masking. : : 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, : air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. : : 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature : tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, : running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. : : 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. : : 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces : stress. : : 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. : : 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their : meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. : : 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. : : 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds : relief in playing a jazz trumpet. : : 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no : tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures : fit perfectly. : : 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. : : 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. : : 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else : in the room. : : 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, : acu-pressure, hypnosis. : : 21. http://www.oswego.edu/~jpeck/prime/

Response:

: 1. Avoid loud noise – travel with earplugs – fingers for emergencies : : 2. If possible for you, use hearing aid and/or masker : : 3. Keep busy, active and interested; especially in something YOU : enjoy. Compensate for Tinntus with a dash of self indulgence : : 4. Be positive; try to counter a negative thought with a positive one, : eg. "I won’t be down – I’ll go to town"… is one member’s symbolic : motto. : : 5. Reduce stress whatever way possible; reorganise your lifestyle to : be less rushed; better time management, prepare ahead. Resolve : emotional problems. : : 6. Learn deep relaxation techniques and do them daily; make them part : of daily living. : : 7. Use radio/TV for background noise even if you’re not listening. : Ditto your favorite tapes. Using headphones will provide better : masking. : : 8. Utilise background noise whenever possible, eg refrigerators, fans, : air-conditioners, typewriters, driving a car. : : 9. Build up your own collection of ‘friendly’ tapes; explore nature : tapes, especially those with water – sea, surf, rain, waterfalls, : running streams, fountains. A Tai-Chi music tape might help. : : 10. Walking – especially on windy days or by running water or the sea. : : 11. Running – to accent your joy in being mobile. Exercise reduces : stress. : : 12. When Tinnitus is bad, list everything in your life that is good. : : 13. Recite your favorite poems over and over mentally and enjoy their : meaning. Learn more! Recite out loud too. : : 14. Sing and hum – your own voice may be good for active masking. : : 15. Play a musical instrument – one member with severe Tinnitus finds : relief in playing a jazz trumpet. : : 16. Get all dental problems fixed, check there are no : tempero-mandibular (TMJ) problems, it is essential that all dentures : fit perfectly. : : 17. Chew gum – it helps some people, but not all. : : 18. Healthy diet. Low salt. : : 19. Pretend Tinnitus is not within you but project it someplace else : in the room. : : 20. Try various therapies: Tai-Chi, yoga, massage, acupuncture, : acu-pressure, hypnosis. : : 21. http://www.goatse.cx/

Response:

Yoga for runners?

Question:

A professional sports masseuse who helped me with an ankle sprain remarked that sometimes you don’t <want to increase flexibility beyond a certain point, since tightness may be required.

Maybe. But I’m guessing that the "certain point" is way beyond what most normal folks get to. The last thing we need is to have everyone blow off their stretching because they’re afraid of getting too flexible. :)  - Jeff

Response:

Thank you Tom, for these two informative posts on tai chi and yoga in which I am extremely interested in the nature behind. I enjoyed reading them.

I said I’d write a little more, so here is the infliction… I once saw one of my tai chi teachers running and kicking a soccer ball around. He was close to 60 at the time. For his age he was fairly swift and with a firm kick. However, there was something odd about his running that suggested he could not run distances like that. I know other long term, good tai chi practitioners who can and do run, but I’ll reflect on him (Peter Gia Ma Yu). There are several "rule" of tai chi about sinking: sinking weight to the legs, sinking chi to the dan tien, opening and settling the joints. What these mean in detail only comes from learning and practicing (and making and correcting lots of mistakes and misimpressions). However, the basic result is a loss of tension in the upper body, which primarily lets you connect (outward/upward/extend, or inward/pull,or downward) through the torso and arms, without any bracing tension. In the legs, there is one leg at a time doing the support (flexing but not bracing), and the leg provides most of your power. The "waist" provides more power, but waist means more like "Buttock and lower back" turning about vertical axes. What I saw in Peter’s running was a heaviness of the legs. If you ever watch a cheeter run, you notice a lumbering (very fast, non- springy) motion. That’s sort of what Peter had. The agility you see in crisp trained runners wasn’t there. Maybe this was because Peter didn’t run, but… …one aspect which is cultivated seriously in tai chi is the ROOT. This provides a base for adjustment and accommodation, and also (if needed), to ‘ground’ (not be moved by) a shove from someone. The skill of strong root is understood differently by different tai chi styles, but without it, the tai chi is just fluff. It comes from the relationship between a relaxed, attentive and INTENT body and the ground (through the leg). It is not compulsory (or desirable) to manifest root all the time, or even often. However, I think Peter’s running was a kind of grounded, or rooted running. It didn’t have the "tendon energy return" systems you see in trained runners, so was probably less efficient than what runners do. I expect the fine line can be found that includes a momentary root, and the "tendon energy return", and "catching yourself falling forward" – in an efficient bundle. And that’s what I work at doing. It’s my heart and lungs that have to catch up, and my body that has to learn the "even one bit more efficient" form. Tom. — Dr Tom Osborn Director of Modelling The NTF Group Leaders in Decision Support Level 7, 1 York Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 AUSTRALIA phone: +61 2 9252 0600 fax: +61 2 9251 9894 http://www.ntf.com.au

Response:

Does anyone do yoga to compliment their running?

Yes.  I think that practice of yoga is essential to counteract the damage running does to the body. A couple of years ago (maybe twenty?) Runner’s World published a first rate yoga-for-runners book by Jean Couch.  The last time I looked on RW’s website, it wasn’t available, but it appears once in a while in the out-of-print section of bn or amazon. Cheers, Fred

Response:

Brian, You’re right. A professional sports masseuse who helped me with an ankle sprain remarked that sometimes you don’t <want to increase flexibility beyond a certain point, since tightness may be required. I think that may be true for running hilly races–but I’m far from certain. — George Beinhorn "How to Run Your First 50-Miler" http://www.oceansofenergy.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Flexibility <always improves athletic performance. … up to a point. One of my sports massage teachers said that he sometimes saw clients with hypermobility — they had frequent joint dislocations, partly because they were so "flexible". He said nearly all of them were yoga practitioners. This doesn’t mean that yoga will always lead to unstable joints, but it’s good to be aware that it could happen. — Brian P. Baresch Lawrence, Kansas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

Response:

I guess that it’s just difficult to see that things like flexibility, postural alignment, breathing, and focus that I work on in yoga have a direct effect on my running. After all, I work on those those same abilities when I run. Well, breathing and focus are directly exercised by running, flexibility and postural alignment probably are not. One thing I know is that I do like doing both yoga and running. I guess it can be debated the extent to which one helps the other, but it makes me feel a lot better to be doing both. — Harold – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea that yoga doesn’t improve running is questionable. Flexibility <always improves athletic performance. Postural alignment is a huge plus. Breathing factors to numerous to mention. And if you meditate, you’ll quickly discover benefits of focus and calmness that have powerful benefits for runners. (They’re key elements of mental training.) — George Beinhorn "How to Run Your First 50-Miler" http://www.oceansofenergy.com

Response:

"Clyde Soles" advises: Yoga and tai chi also give you safe flexibility (because of the stabilisation that you acquire at the same time). Just a word of caution: choose your instructor and yoga style wisely. I suspect our city has an ordinance requiring one yoga instructor per block (two in high-density areas). With that many running around town, there is a full gamut of experience and egos. Not sure how wide-spread the problem is but I personally know four people who have blown their knees (ACL or MCL) in yoga classes.

There seems to be a boom in Yoga (especially in the states). There are a few "glamour" Yogas that claim to be more active or are really being taught by aerobics teachers or ex-dancers. There are also schools where beginner classes include advanced stuff. The promise of quick results, and a lack of respect for the beginner’s body can, of course, lead to injuries. Many beginners are not very strong. Many runners have hamstrings (and other muscles) which are twangy from years of getting used to their owner’s style – which can only achieve suppleness slowly (3..6 months). Danger signs in Yoga classes: straps (used to hold legs bent), lycra (may not be a glamour hazard, but you can get COLD), dust, everyone doing lotus position, beginners and advanced in the same class, lack of comprehensive warm up (eg, salute the sun and triangle poses), everybody in the room doesn’t seem to practice outside the class time. [There are a few other danger signs which are IMHO. These include wishful thinking, new age hype, "dating agency" style yoga studios, cults, and "contortion proud" teachers]. That being said, and assuming runners already pay some attention to their own body, I’d expect benefits to form from Yoga. [My wife's yoga classes are highly personalised to each students level. She's not running a commercial studio, so she hasn't used any sales techniques, and is happy for people to learn a bit of safe stuff from her and go away for months (and practicing) before dropping in for a refresher. If yoga isn't DONE, it's not yoga]. Cheers, Tom.

Response:

Flexibility <always improves athletic performance.

… up to a point. One of my sports massage teachers said that he sometimes saw clients with hypermobility — they had frequent joint dislocations, partly because they were so "flexible". He said nearly all of them were yoga practitioners. This doesn’t mean that yoga will always lead to unstable joints, but it’s good to be aware that it could happen. — Brian P. Baresch Lawrence, Kansas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

Response:

Yes, but your city as at least 15 runners per block.

Nah, only 5 runners per block (but 1 must be world class). There are also, however, 2 roadies (1 pro), 3 mtn bikers (1 pro), a tri-athlete, 4 climbers (1 a mountaineer). Plus someone to balance your energy, an acupunturist, two massage therapists (1 a rolfer), and a vegan-bretharian nutritional consultant. Oh yeah, citizenship requires a platinum Visa, a trust fund, and BF under 10 for men and 15 for women. —   http://clydesoles.com

Response:

Yoga and tai chi also give you safe flexibility (because of the stabilisation that you acquire at the same time).

Just a word of caution: choose your instructor and yoga style wisely. I suspect our city has an ordinance requiring one yoga instructor per block (two in high-density areas). With that many running around town, there is a full gamut of experience and egos. Not sure how wide-spread the problem is but I personally know four people who have blown their knees (ACL or MCL) in yoga classes. —   http://clydesoles.com

Response:

I suspect our city has an ordinance requiring one yoga instructor per block (two in high-density areas). With that many running around town, there is a full gamut of experience and egos.

Yes, but your city as at least 15 runners per block. Palmer

Response:

The idea that yoga doesn’t improve running is questionable. Flexibility <always improves athletic performance. Postural alignment is a huge plus. Breathing factors to numerous to mention. And if you meditate, you’ll quickly discover benefits of focus and calmness that have powerful benefits for runners. (They’re key elements of mental training.) — George Beinhorn "How to Run Your First 50-Miler" http://www.oceansofenergy.com

Response:

I have been doing yoga regularly since the beginning of the year. After a marathon in January, I was running at a very minimal mileage level – about 10-15 miles a week if that.  During this time I did two races, a 12K and a 15K, both at a very good time for me, having done no speedwork.  Two weeks ago I did my first 5K in a year and beat my prior PR by 10 seconds in what felt like much less effort.  I have been trying to figure out what the difference is between this year and last year, when I had been actively trying to lower my times.  I have thought maybe it was the breathing and stretching in yoga, and maybe the weights I have been doing about twice a week also.  I have very tight hips and hamstrings and yoga has definitely helped there. Even if yoga had no direct benefit to running, I am a complete yoga advocate, as it relaxes me mentally and makes me feel like I had a complete physical "makeover".  I find it very challenging too, yet can usually squeeze out the energy to complete a class even on my most tired days.  Despite throwing my neck out this week :( (non-yoga related), I have had virtually no aches or pains since beginning yoga. Linda

Response:

Thank you Tom, for these two informative posts on tai chi and yoga in which I am extremely interested in the nature behind. I enjoyed reading them. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "Why should I practice running slow? I already know how to run slow. I must learn to run fast."                                                    Emil Zatopek http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

<snip

Response:

"Ozzie Gontang" replied: Tom Osborn: PS: There was also a reference to a didgeridoo. I can play one of those, but they have very little to do with tai chi or yoga. Tom, The didgeridoo was mentioned as a gift from my daughther for Christmas.  It was an aside. … Again, the didgeridoo most likely has nothing to do with yoga, tai chi or running, but my metaphoric mind sure finds that hard to believe.

I didn’t say nothing to do with it, just very little. Somehow, all things are related if you look hard enough (or even if they’re not, that’s noteworthy). On the didge breathing issue. "Circular" breathing for a didgeridoo is a trick that uses the cheeks to maintain air pressure where the lips vibrate and you gulp an in breath. You breath in pretty quick. But first order effects? I would say that trick has nothing to do with breathing for running. Second order? Well, the awareness of carrying out the intent and the "slickness"of carrying it out without messing up what you’re there for (graceful, swift running, or uninterrupted sapcey music) has a commonality…  It probably did very little, if anything for my running, although I guess I play the didge better than I run (comparing my relative ranking of each field). The psychological benefits of being absorbed by the task (in the flow, or suppressing the ego, or whatever) are probably good for running and music and peace of mind and recovering from disease. It would depend how you approached learning the didge… The role of breathing in tai chi is very real, but after it’s natural, the augmentation of both power and agility just happen, as long as the mind’s on the job. The mind (especially as "Hsin" – heart/mind) doesn’t solve puzzles, it just perceives, imagines and responds. It can listen to your breathing, and your foot falls, and your lungs asking for more or less air. The diaphragm and spine stabilisation are coupled, so the torso depends on some harmony there. If the eyes look down, the front stabilisation may be "slack", which is bad news for "falling" aspect of running (which Ozzie identifies) Seeing the horizon is better. I’d suggest anything that imposes on the neck or throat or upper back is a bad thing! Of course, many runnings have form that is contrary to all known theories, and they’re still quicker than me. The general adaptive response means if you keep doing it and it doesn’t mess you up, you get better. Tuning form tends not to interest youngsters… In Tai Chi, the yang leg has a *very* distinctive (one might say "firm potential") relationship with the ground. Many people don’t get this, and so who do get too earnest about it. In running, the entire duration of contact of the foot with the ground would be about 0.2 seconds (based on cadence 185 or so). Some of that time is accommodation, so there may be only 0.1 or 0.12 seconds of Yang. You don’t have time to adjust to that much, but you do adjust to the rhythm of running (since that 0.12 seconds recurs). Basically, tai chi isn’t periodic/rhythmic (although it has it’s circles and continuity, it’s fundamentally "square"). Running is efficient rhythm going places… Gotta go, but hoping to write a bit more. Cheers, Tom. — Dr Tom Osborn Director of Modelling The NTF Group Leaders in Decision Support Level 7, 1 York Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 AUSTRALIA phone: +61 2 9252 0600 fax: +61 2 9251 9894 www.ntf.com.au

Response:

I’ve been doing Tai Chi for a long time (some well taught, some badly… …some well learnt, some badly). Recently I’ve been learning from Chen Xiao Wang [FWIW] for the past little while (four years heavily, then a few years infrequent as he travels so much). I’m married to a Yoga teacher. So I have a view on these things. But please allow for bias. Bias is very common place in both tai chi and yoga circle… Both Yoga and Tai Chi (except the highly "wishful thinking" new age nonsense) improve stabilisation and "appropriate looseness" (relaxation which isn’t floppy). This can improve efficiency, expecially the way the ground is used, and posture. They both build strength, all over. Form can benefit due to this useable strength and better awareness of the gravity and the ground. But form, also includes the "shape"of running which takes a lot of miles to work out. Yoga and Tai Chi don’t give you those miles. However, they are both slow (though agile), so won’t be an answer to your runner’s prayers. You still have to cover distance. You still have to get cardio fitness. You still have to get the dynamics and stride all integrated. Body awareness from tai chi, yoga and some qi gong (as long as the obsession is under control) could be a useful servant in imrpoving form, but a poor master. Yoga and tai chi also give you safe flexibility (because of the stabilisation that you acquire at the same time). What’s the difference between the two? Tai Chi is upright, sunken, uses "open" and "close" and is continuously about weight shift and turn (either, but not both at the same time). Yoga is at any angle and masters gravity without the upright requirement. Yoga is often "held" (not stiffly). Tai chi generates power (after some experience) while yoga makes you more accommodative. In both cases, the ego mind is quietened (except for the 99% of practitioners who identify with their commitment and stage, rather than with the experience and the learning). Somebody else should say something. Tom. PS: There was also a reference to a didgeridoo. I can play one of those, but they have very little to do with tai chi or yoga. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Practice of Yoga and Tai Chi to Improve Running Form and Style c.2001 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D., Aleksi Kolehmainen, and Bruce Poston Aleksi Kolehmainen inquired Hi Everybody,  Do any of you practice Tai-Chi ? I started taking lessons of Qigong in the beginning of the year and I’ve truly enjoyed those. We have a Chinese teacher who also practices Chinese medicine. So I’m also taking a Tuina (acupressure) class during the same day.  It really teaches you awareness of yourself and  your body. Qi. As a result of this I’ve also gotten quite interested of alternative (sports) medicine Bruce Poston queried rec.running: Could someone comment on the differences between Yoga and Tai Chi? While I am mostly looking at taking a class in one of these from a runner’s perspective, I’m also interested in how the methodology taught will aid other areas of my life. Thanks,       Bruce Poston These questions gave me pause to reflect. As a runner I have used Yoga and Tai Chi to increase my flexibility, range of motion,  and muscle tone They are both great practices to do in order to balance the negative effects many of us have experienced from our years of running.  Some of the results of the years of unconscious running are: excess tightening of the muscles, injuries due to inflexibility and fascial constrictions from faulty posture and poor running form, and strain on the joints by improper running style. Yoga or Tai Chi are excellent ways to balance the running body so that it can continue to run for years without injury or deterioration from the wear and tear due to muscular imbalances. Yoga stretches and Tai Chi movement done properly work every muscle in the body. They can greatly increase flexibility and reduce muscle tightness. Held standing postures (asanas)  or the movements of Tai Chi greatly increase strength, stamina, breath control, and concentration. Yoga and/or Tai Chi may not only keep a runner from getting injured, they may enable the running body to run better for longer periods of time injury free with less strain and minimal effort. The idea for Yoga and Tai Chi, is moving mindfully.  If you can move the body in one of the asanas, (poses) or one of the Tai Chi movements only a thousandth of an inch further each day, in a thousand days you will be able to go an inch further. Yoga and Tai Chi take the mind/body and spirit without strain or stress to a place of new possibilities. For me I took up Tai Chi as a way to run faster by moving as slowly as possible.    Walk in slow motion and you will see that your arms get out of sync with your legs.  Walk slower and it only exaggerates more. Tai Chi is total body movement.  It’s the larger muscles moving the rest of the body’s muscles in unison.  Yoga is active total body stretching.  It’s the entire body moving to its maximum point of stretch without effort. Yoga and Tai Chi add the flexibility that comes with movement in all directions.  A problem when one only goes in one direction-running forward. Either will give you mental and physical flexibility.  The problems that many runners experience with inflexibility and their injuries created from this inflexibility is due to psychoslerosis. This dreaded disease of the brain is defined as "hardening of the head."  It is related to doing what one does without thinking of what it means to move like the graceful animals we can be or become. Yoga and Tai Chi are both exercises that one can do even when one is recovering from the injuries of running.  At the same time, those who do Yoga and/or Tai Chi find themselves able to run for longer periods of time without incurring injury or imbalances to portions of the body. Yoga and/or Tai Chi are practices, like running can be a practice.  They are all part of the practice of taking care of one’s body so that the mind and brain need never worry about the past – which no longer exists, nor the future – which is not here.  Only the present exists.   All three give one, if one is in the moment, a present of being present,  It is at this present moment that the brain becomes a secondary organ, as Joseph Campbell said. It’s no more important than spleen, heart, kidneys, lungs, etc.  We are here to be fully alive and as good animals as fully as we are able. St George said "We are called to be heroes, poets, artists, philosophers and saints, but most of all we are called to be good animals…we are called to be good athletes." Go for the grace of total body movement, and make your running a dance. Yoga or Tai Chi will only further assist you in this graceful dance. Mens sana in corpore sano. I went with my family to see Stomp tonight.  I love rhythms.  ForChristmas, my daughter gave me a digeridoo.  It will help me with my breathing. The above was written three Christmases ago. Tonight I am going to hear Mark Connor play at the San Diego Museum of Art. Over the past two years I have become pretty good on my digeridoo and the one I enjoy most is the one I’ve made out of  inch and a half PVC.. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

Response:

The Practice of Yoga and Tai Chi to Improve Running Form and Style c.2001 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D., Aleksi Kolehmainen, and Bruce Poston Aleksi Kolehmainen inquired Hi Everybody,  Do any of you practice Tai-Chi ? I started taking lessons of Qigong in the beginning of the year and I’ve truly enjoyed those. We have a Chinese teacher who also practices Chinese medicine. So I’m also taking a Tuina (acupressure) class during the same day.  It really teaches you awareness of yourself and  your body. Qi. As a result of this I’ve also gotten quite interested of alternative (sports) medicine Bruce Poston queried rec.running: Could someone comment on the differences between Yoga and Tai Chi? While I am mostly looking at taking a class in one of these from a runner’s perspective, I’m also interested in how the methodology taught will aid other areas of my life. Thanks,       Bruce Poston These questions gave me pause to reflect. As a runner I have used Yoga and Tai Chi to increase my flexibility, range of motion,  and muscle tone They are both great practices to do in order to balance the negative effects many of us have experienced from our years of running.  Some of the results of the years of unconscious running are: excess tightening of the muscles, injuries due to inflexibility and fascial constrictions from faulty posture and poor running form, and strain on the joints by improper running style. Yoga or Tai Chi are excellent ways to balance the running body so that it can continue to run for years without injury or deterioration from the wear and tear due to muscular imbalances. Yoga stretches and Tai Chi movement done properly work every muscle in the body. They can greatly increase flexibility and reduce muscle tightness. Held standing postures (asanas)  or the movements of Tai Chi greatly increase strength, stamina, breath control, and concentration. Yoga and/or Tai Chi may not only keep a runner from getting injured, they may enable the running body to run better for longer periods of time injury free with less strain and minimal effort. The idea for Yoga and Tai Chi, is moving mindfully.  If you can move the body in one of the asanas, (poses) or one of the Tai Chi movements only a thousandth of an inch further each day, in a thousand days you will be able to go an inch further. Yoga and Tai Chi take the mind/body and spirit without strain or stress to a place of new possibilities. For me I took up Tai Chi as a way to run faster by moving as slowly as possible.    Walk in slow motion and you will see that your arms get out of sync with your legs.  Walk slower and it only exaggerates more. Tai Chi is total body movement.  It’s the larger muscles moving the rest of the body’s muscles in unison.  Yoga is active total body stretching.  It’s the entire body moving to its maximum point of stretch without effort. Yoga and Tai Chi add the flexibility that comes with movement in all directions.  A problem when one only goes in one direction-running forward. Either will give you mental and physical flexibility.  The problems that many runners experience with inflexibility and their injuries created from this inflexibility is due to psychoslerosis. This dreaded disease of the brain is defined as "hardening of the head."  It is related to doing what one does without thinking of what it means to move like the graceful animals we can be or become. Yoga and Tai Chi are both exercises that one can do even when one is recovering from the injuries of running.  At the same time, those who do Yoga and/or Tai Chi find themselves able to run for longer periods of time without incurring injury or imbalances to portions of the body. Yoga and/or Tai Chi are practices, like running can be a practice.  They are all part of the practice of taking care of one’s body so that the mind and brain need never worry about the past – which no longer exists, nor the future – which is not here.  Only the present exists.   All three give one, if one is in the moment, a present of being present,  It is at this present moment that the brain becomes a secondary organ, as Joseph Campbell said. It’s no more important than spleen, heart, kidneys, lungs, etc.  We are here to be fully alive and as good animals as fully as we are able.   St George said "We are called to be heroes, poets, artists, philosophers and saints, but most of all we are called to be good animals…we are called to be good athletes." Go for the grace of total body movement, and make your running a dance. Yoga or Tai Chi will only further assist you in this graceful dance.   Mens sana in corpore sano. I went with my family to see Stomp tonight.  I love rhythms.  ForChristmas, my daughter gave me a digeridoo.  It will help me with my breathing.   The above was written three Christmases ago. Tonight I am going to hear Mark Connor play at the San Diego Museum of Art. Over the past two years I have become pretty good on my digeridoo and the one I enjoy most is the one I’ve made out of  inch and a half PVC.. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

Response:

Does anyone do yoga to compliment their running? I am very tight in the hamstrings so I thought the yoga would help. Went to my first class yesterday- it was a Kundalini class, and man it was hard! I think I can skip the weights this week after holding my arms out strainght for 11 minutes… It was great and after sweating alot, I could actually touch my toes again! :) Jenn in Ottawa

Response:

I’ve been practicing yoga since September. I started doing it because I’ve always heard that it’s a good compliment to running. Here’s what I’ve found out. 1) The Kundalini folks can be kind of weird – but if you like it, then stick with it. If your primary interest is the physical aspect of yoga, consider a hatha class or an ashtanga (power yoga) class. 2) Yoga does very little to improve running, and running does very little to improve a yoga practice, but the two activities can coexist. I don’t run after a yoga practice, because I feel that it retightens all those muscles that I just loosened up. I also don’t practice yoga too soon after running, because (as you noticed) the yoga practice requires a lot of strength. 3) In yoga, you learn to breathe regularly even while your body is bent into some very uncomfortable positions. This is probably the where yoga has helped my running the most. I seem to able to push harder at the end of races and still not lose my form. 4) I have a knee that hurts sometimes. I thought that the yoga practice might help with this, but it does not. The knee seems to respond best to simple physical therapy type exercises that I picked up from a doctor. I found that I liked doing yoga, and spent more energy on it than on running over the winter. Now that the weather is getting nice, I’m doing more running. — Harold – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone do yoga to compliment their running? I am very tight in the hamstrings so I thought the yoga would help. Went to my first class yesterday- it was a Kundalini class, and man it was hard! I think I can skip the weights this week after holding my arms out strainght for 11 minutes… It was great and after sweating alot, I could actually touch my toes again! :) Jenn in Ottawa

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