Question:

Asanas you don’t need many of.  You just need to do the few very fine tuned ones (say 4-8 per day) that are specifically for you psycho-physical make up. [...]

This is – of course – not accurate.

Response:

I am looking at my copy of Richard Hittleman’s Introduction to Yoga. I bought it in 1969.  It was a $1.

Wow. I couldn’t find a price on mine but Autobiography of a Yogi I got in 1974 has 1.95 on the cover. Wrote in the cover of Guide to Yoga Meditation 30 Oct 1973 If you want I can scan in some of the illustrations they are quite funny to look at today.  The women in leotards from neck to toe.  The men in ski pants.  The asanas done with no awareness of alignment or safety. — ~Stu

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons?   Years ago (1967 or so) I got into a routine of doing/learning yoga with a t.v. show that was on at 1 PM, with Richard Hittleman. I did this daily, even after the birth of my 3rd child, and felt it helped me, and also to lose weight. Hi, I call Hittlemans book Guide to Yoga Meditation my bible. Long ago there were not many decent books on yoga. With virtually no Indian words he cuts right to the crux of the matter and from simple Hittleman knowledge it is childs play to dismantle Western philosophy as being quite shallow. I also had a very good book at the time, YOGA, YOUTH AND REINCARNATION by Jess Stearn. Along with the story of his discovering yoga, it had pictures and discriptions of the postures. I still have this book. I lucked out and found 2 or 3 other books with Marcia Moore in them for only a dollar! at a used bookstore. Remember her ‘cloud popping husband?’ I heard that Eve Dickenson recently passed away. I haven’t heard much about Hittleman in recent years. Still got all his books.   In 1969 we moved to another state (rural, north) with very few t.v. channels, and no more yoga show.   I did yoga on my own, from memory (I’d play tapes of slow music)on my own for many years, but got away from it at some point (live got in the way, moving around, ended up having 7 children- all grown now).    At this point, I am almost 60, a grandmother/greatgrandmother, overweight (though I don’t think I eat a lot, and not junk food, etc- plus I am quite active, have a 4 year old grandaughter living with me and a big, old house to try and keep up with). And starting to realize I am feeling old and "unwell". Draggy, and achey.    I’ve tried to do simple yoga stretches, usually on the bed, or standing up- at leat to start. Also Tai Chi, which I also once learned with a t.v. show, I am not longer able to get (Joey Bond). But, I can barely do even the simpliest stretches and postures, I used to do so easily. I  am not even attempting the more advanced ones, like shoulder stand, plough, and such. It’s like all of a sudden I’m aware of how old, fat and out of shape I’ve gotten! "Life" and dealing with it, seems to have gotten in the way for a long time, without me realizing it was happening.    Recently, I have been thinking of yoga more, and seems like it continually is coming to my attention. Inner Guidance, maybe.  Like seeing that Madonna does it. Tonight, as I was going to bed, at 11:30 PM I came across a show on NH PBS, something  called "Yoga for the rest of us". It’s sort of a documentary, showing a yoga teacher with a class of older people, some of them doing it while sitting in chairs. Or, holding onto the back of a chair for balance. They are stressing deep breathing. I have found that most people in a yoga class can not do a headstand. At Ballys people do yoga on the mats too but what they do is simply stick their feet up over a sofa or barrier so the blood in their legs goes to their head. I have seen people fall asleep that way and sometimes I hear 2 of them like that talking about work.  The older and overweight you are the less likely you should attempt headstands and candle poses. Some lesser version is almost always possible.     I know the postures, and know I’m not supposed to push/force and to only do what I can do at the time.    I think one goal is to get into the habit of doing something every day. And, feeling optimistic and positive about the benefits.     I am subbed to a few other newsgroups and tonight, after watching the pbs show (and doing some of the postures they were doing, even though it’s now past midnight) I got the idea of looking for a yoga newsgroup.     Even just to keep me aware and motivated. I KNOW when I used to do yoga all the time, and even lost weight (back in the 1960’s) I felt so much better. Just being thinner and more flexible, and having more energy flowing would be a big help.      Anyway, that’s my story about yoga without taking lessons.      I never had a real lesson (in person teacher) Until recent years teachers were hard to come by – Hittleman had out an audio tape ‘Upon being your own guru.’ I bought all his books and tapes. Hittleman is among the best. but I do think it would be easier to learn watching a tape, and not trying to figure it out from pictures in a book. Same with Tai Chi. I liked Joey Bond’s show because he would use mirror images, so watching it was easier to follow. You would probably like Swami Vishnudevananda’s Meditation and Mantras book since you like Hittleman. Mike Dubbeld     ~ Carrie

Response:

I am looking at my copy of Richard Hittleman’s Introduction to Yoga.  I bought it in 1969.  It was a $1. If you want I can scan in some of the illustrations they are quite funny to look at today.  The women in leotards from neck to toe.  The men in ski pants.  The asanas done with no awareness of alignment or safety. — ~Stu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons?   Years ago (1967 or so) I got into a routine of doing/learning yoga with a t.v. show that was on at 1 PM, with Richard Hittleman. I did this daily, even after the birth of my 3rd child, and felt it helped me, and also to lose weight. Hi, I call Hittlemans book Guide to Yoga Meditation my bible. Long ago there were not many decent books on yoga. With virtually no Indian words he cuts right to the crux of the matter and from simple Hittleman knowledge it is childs play to dismantle Western philosophy as being quite shallow. I also had a very good book at the time, YOGA, YOUTH AND REINCARNATION by Jess Stearn. Along with the story of his discovering yoga, it had pictures and discriptions of the postures. I still have this book. I lucked out and found 2 or 3 other books with Marcia Moore in them for only a dollar! at a used bookstore. Remember her ‘cloud popping husband?’ I heard that Eve Dickenson recently passed away. I haven’t heard much about Hittleman in recent years. Still got all his books.   In 1969 we moved to another state (rural, north) with very few t.v. channels, and no more yoga show.   I did yoga on my own, from memory (I’d play tapes of slow music)on my own for many years, but got away from it at some point (live got in the way, moving around, ended up having 7 children- all grown now).    At this point, I am almost 60, a grandmother/greatgrandmother, overweight (though I don’t think I eat a lot, and not junk food, etc- plus I am quite active, have a 4 year old grandaughter living with me and a big, old house to try and keep up with). And starting to realize I am feeling old and "unwell". Draggy, and achey.    I’ve tried to do simple yoga stretches, usually on the bed, or standing up- at leat to start. Also Tai Chi, which I also once learned with a t.v. show, I am not longer able to get (Joey Bond). But, I can barely do even the simpliest stretches and postures, I used to do so easily. I  am not even attempting the more advanced ones, like shoulder stand, plough, and such. It’s like all of a sudden I’m aware of how old, fat and out of shape I’ve gotten! "Life" and dealing with it, seems to have gotten in the way for a long time, without me realizing it was happening.    Recently, I have been thinking of yoga more, and seems like it continually is coming to my attention. Inner Guidance, maybe.  Like seeing that Madonna does it. Tonight, as I was going to bed, at 11:30 PM I came across a show on NH PBS, something  called "Yoga for the rest of us". It’s sort of a documentary, showing a yoga teacher with a class of older people, some of them doing it while sitting in chairs. Or, holding onto the back of a chair for balance. They are stressing deep breathing. I have found that most people in a yoga class can not do a headstand. At Ballys people do yoga on the mats too but what they do is simply stick their feet up over a sofa or barrier so the blood in their legs goes to their head. I have seen people fall asleep that way and sometimes I hear 2 of them like that talking about work.  The older and overweight you are the less likely you should attempt headstands and candle poses. Some lesser version is almost always possible.     I know the postures, and know I’m not supposed to push/force and to only do what I can do at the time.    I think one goal is to get into the habit of doing something every day. And, feeling optimistic and positive about the benefits.     I am subbed to a few other newsgroups and tonight, after watching the pbs show (and doing some of the postures they were doing, even though it’s now past midnight) I got the idea of looking for a yoga newsgroup.     Even just to keep me aware and motivated. I KNOW when I used to do yoga all the time, and even lost weight (back in the 1960’s) I felt so much better. Just being thinner and more flexible, and having more energy flowing would be a big help.      Anyway, that’s my story about yoga without taking lessons.      I never had a real lesson (in person teacher) Until recent years teachers were hard to come by – Hittleman had out an audio tape ‘Upon being your own guru.’ I bought all his books and tapes. Hittleman is among the best. but I do think it would be easier to learn watching a tape, and not trying to figure it out from pictures in a book. Same with Tai Chi. I liked Joey Bond’s show because he would use mirror images, so watching it was easier to follow. You would probably like Swami Vishnudevananda’s Meditation and Mantras book since you like Hittleman. Mike Dubbeld     ~ Carrie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons?   Years ago (1967 or so) I got into a routine of doing/learning yoga with a t.v. show that was on at 1 PM, with Richard Hittleman. I did this daily, even after the birth of my 3rd child, and felt it helped me, and also to lose weight.

Hi, I call Hittlemans book Guide to Yoga Meditation my bible. Long ago there were not many decent books on yoga. With virtually no Indian words he cuts right to the crux of the matter and from simple Hittleman knowledge it is childs play to dismantle Western philosophy as being quite shallow. I also had a very good book at the time, YOGA, YOUTH AND REINCARNATION by Jess Stearn. Along with the story of his discovering yoga, it had pictures and discriptions of the postures.

I still have this book. I lucked out and found 2 or 3 other books with Marcia Moore in them for only a dollar! at a used bookstore. Remember her ‘cloud popping husband?’ I heard that Eve Dickenson recently passed away. I haven’t heard much about Hittleman in recent years. Still got all his books. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   In 1969 we moved to another state (rural, north) with very few t.v. channels, and no more yoga show.   I did yoga on my own, from memory (I’d play tapes of slow music)on my own for many years, but got away from it at some point (live got in the way, moving around, ended up having 7 children- all grown now).    At this point, I am almost 60, a grandmother/greatgrandmother, overweight (though I don’t think I eat a lot, and not junk food, etc- plus I am quite active, have a 4 year old grandaughter living with me and a big, old house to try and keep up with). And starting to realize I am feeling old and "unwell". Draggy, and achey.    I’ve tried to do simple yoga stretches, usually on the bed, or standing up- at leat to start. Also Tai Chi, which I also once learned with a t.v. show, I am not longer able to get (Joey Bond). But, I can barely do even the simpliest stretches and postures, I used to do so easily. I  am not even attempting the more advanced ones, like shoulder stand, plough, and such. It’s like all of a sudden I’m aware of how old, fat and out of shape I’ve gotten! "Life" and dealing with it, seems to have gotten in the way for a long time, without me realizing it was happening.    Recently, I have been thinking of yoga more, and seems like it continually is coming to my attention. Inner Guidance, maybe.  Like seeing that Madonna does it. Tonight, as I was going to bed, at 11:30 PM I came across a show on NH PBS, something  called "Yoga for the rest of us". It’s sort of a documentary, showing a yoga teacher with a class of older people, some of them doing it while sitting in chairs. Or, holding onto the back of a chair for balance. They are stressing deep breathing.

I have found that most people in a yoga class can not do a headstand. At Ballys people do yoga on the mats too but what they do is simply stick their feet up over a sofa or barrier so the blood in their legs goes to their head. I have seen people fall asleep that way and sometimes I hear 2 of them like that talking about work.  The older and overweight you are the less likely you should attempt headstands and candle poses. Some lesser version is almost always possible. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I know the postures, and know I’m not supposed to push/force and to only do what I can do at the time.    I think one goal is to get into the habit of doing something every day. And, feeling optimistic and positive about the benefits.     I am subbed to a few other newsgroups and tonight, after watching the pbs show (and doing some of the postures they were doing, even though it’s now past midnight) I got the idea of looking for a yoga newsgroup.     Even just to keep me aware and motivated. I KNOW when I used to do yoga all the time, and even lost weight (back in the 1960’s) I felt so much better. Just being thinner and more flexible, and having more energy flowing would be a big help.      Anyway, that’s my story about yoga without taking lessons.      I never had a real lesson (in person teacher)

Until recent years teachers were hard to come by – Hittleman had out an audio tape ‘Upon being your own guru.’ I bought all his books and tapes. Hittleman is among the best.  but I do think it would be easier to learn watching a tape, and not trying to figure it out from pictures in a book. Same with Tai Chi. I liked Joey Bond’s show because he would use mirror images, so watching it was easier to follow.

You would probably like Swami Vishnudevananda’s Meditation and Mantras book since you like Hittleman. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ~ Carrie

Response:

Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons?

First of all, meditation is a subset of yoga.  Thus "yoga and meditation" is like saying "sports and football". It is possible that a book will be sufficient, but there are many practices in yoga that are both subtle and powerful.  It is very difficult for a book to look at the way you are practicing an asana and make corrections based on your limitations. It is also very difficult for a book to give you the support needed when you find after 10 minutes of book learned meditation that it is too boring and your are not getting anything out of it. Look in the yellow pages, check out a number of studios in your area.  Find one that resonates with you.  If you need to travel to a large urban center, call and see if they offer weekend beginner workshops.  Let the books support your home practice after you have gained deep insight from a high quality live teacher. — ~Stu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons? Thanks for the inputs

Response:

It is possible that a book will be sufficient, but there are many practices in yoga that are both subtle and powerful.

Books are for new age cowards, you can’t stand practical reality struggle and fight like Krisna. It is very difficult for a book to look at the way you are practicing an asana and make corrections based on your limitations.

Asanas you don’t need many of.  You just need to do the few very fine tuned ones (say 4-8 per day) that are specifically for you psycho-physical make up.  Learning from books is for cowards, learning by paying for yoga classes is for fools.

Response:

Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons?

  Years ago (1967 or so) I got into a routine of doing/learning yoga with a t.v. show that was on at 1 PM, with Richard Hittleman. I did this daily, even after the birth of my 3rd child, and felt it helped me, and also to lose weight. I also had a very good book at the time, YOGA, YOUTH AND REINCARNATION by Jess Stearn. Along with the story of his discovering yoga, it had pictures and discriptions of the postures.   In 1969 we moved to another state (rural, north) with very few t.v. channels, and no more yoga show.   I did yoga on my own, from memory (I’d play tapes of slow music)on my own for many years, but got away from it at some point (live got in the way, moving around, ended up having 7 children- all grown now).    At this point, I am almost 60, a grandmother/greatgrandmother, overweight (though I don’t think I eat a lot, and not junk food, etc- plus I am quite active, have a 4 year old grandaughter living with me and a big, old house to try and keep up with). And starting to realize I am feeling old and "unwell". Draggy, and achey.    I’ve tried to do simple yoga stretches, usually on the bed, or standing up- at leat to start. Also Tai Chi, which I also once learned with a t.v. show, I am not longer able to get (Joey Bond). But, I can barely do even the simpliest stretches and postures, I used to do so easily. I  am not even attempting the more advanced ones, like shoulder stand, plough, and such. It’s like all of a sudden I’m aware of how old, fat and out of shape I’ve gotten! "Life" and dealing with it, seems to have gotten in the way for a long time, without me realizing it was happening.    Recently, I have been thinking of yoga more, and seems like it continually is coming to my attention. Inner Guidance, maybe.  Like seeing that Madonna does it. Tonight, as I was going to bed, at 11:30 PM I came across a show on NH PBS, something  called "Yoga for the rest of us". It’s sort of a documentary, showing a yoga teacher with a class of older people, some of them doing it while sitting in chairs. Or, holding onto the back of a chair for balance. They are stressing deep breathing.     I know the postures, and know I’m not supposed to push/force and to only do what I can do at the time.    I think one goal is to get into the habit of doing something every day. And, feeling optimistic and positive about the benefits.     I am subbed to a few other newsgroups and tonight, after watching the pbs show (and doing some of the postures they were doing, even though it’s now past midnight) I got the idea of looking for a yoga newsgroup.     Even just to keep me aware and motivated. I KNOW when I used to do yoga all the time, and even lost weight (back in the 1960’s) I felt so much better. Just being thinner and more flexible, and having more energy flowing would be a big help.      Anyway, that’s my story about yoga without taking lessons.      I never had a real lesson (in person teacher) but I do think it would be easier to learn watching a tape, and not trying to figure it out from pictures in a book. Same with Tai Chi. I liked Joey Bond’s show because he would use mirror images, so watching it was easier to follow.     ~ Carrie

Response:

If you get a Power Yoga video you will be wasting your time. Yoga is not about exercise.

Ha, … Hah, Ha! Where were you two months ago? You must be buddies with our Bicker?

Response:

If you get a Power Yoga video you will be wasting your time. Yoga is not about exercise. Ha, … Hah, Ha! Where were you two months ago?

I was here. Biker foolishly believes exercise can be combine with exercise. It can. You get a watered down workout and no yoga. If you do not hold the extreme position and rest between poses you will never learn to move energy. I am not going to tell you it has no value, but you won’t learn the minimum essential for anything any further. I have blasted Power Yoga repeatedly for over a year/I doubt if anyone in this group would not know that. Power yoga is a fad/spinoff of aerobic exercise that exploits the fact that until you know the benefit of hatha yoga, hatha yoga appears to be similar to aerobics. Then people extrapolate since aerobics works and is beneficial, hatha yoga is like this. Wrong.  I exercise extensively running for an hour every other day and pressing weights every other day. Exercise cleans the blood of waste products and oxygenates it. It slows breathing and anytime you concentrate you will find your breathing has slowed. Exercise increases your capacity as a vehicle for energy storage. Hatha yoga and pranayama enable you to build up a charge on it. Once you begin something you will never admit your error. There is a guy over on alt.meditation.transcendental that can not tell you if ‘hopping’ is true and he has been day-dreaming for 19 years calling it meditation. You attend a Power Yoga class and there is a synergy among the participants. You look forward to exchanging views of practicing. How could all these people be wrong? How many gurus do you know? Thats a long way from a truckload of people walking around with Yoga Teaching Certificates that know something – go ahead. Scope them out for 4-5 years believing they know more than they are telling. I am sure a lot of hatha yoga is taught and thats what most people want. But Power Yoga will not even get you that. I couldn’t  care less except people will go into Power Yoga, tell their friends they too do yoga, quit believing they did yoga and proceed to delude a lot of people that don’t know better who in turn will do the same thing. Perpetuation of garbage. The word Yoga is being exploited – just think now you can be a mystic and exercise at the same time. Garbage. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You must be buddies with our Bicker?

Response:

Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons?

Response:

Is a book sufficient to learn yoga and meditating or is it necessary to take lessons?

Its not necessary to take lessons but they are fun. If you get a Power Yoga video you will be wasting your time. Yoga is not about exercise. I recommend The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga by Swami VishnuDevananda — http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0517884313/103-7556347-474 4654?vi=glance And Vishnu’s book on Meditation and Mantras– http://www.sivananda.org/la/boutique/yogastore/books/mnm.htm The Sivananda Companion to Yoga — http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684870002/102-1334104-403 6100?vi=glance The Divine Life Society has 44 free books you can download as well as a lot of free booklets—- http://www.divinelifesociety.org/ebooks/swami_sivanandaji/downnload/esse nce_yoga.html The Yoga Research and Education Center is a good source of info– http://www.yrec.org/publications.html Yoga Journal Magazine Online — http://www.yogajournal.com/index.cfm Hatha Yoga Postures on the web– http://www.yogaadvaita.org/text/asanas-intro.shtml Hatha Yoga poses with Sanskrit names also http://www.santosha.com/asanas/index.html Music is Geometry in time. DNA is Krishna’s Flute. Mike Dubbeld

Response:

Question:

This guy, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says that you don’t have to do any other yoga practices than chant the krshna-mantra. What is the sense in this?

If you want to believe that Krishna and his million girlfriends rule the heavenly orchard, and that the highest state of man is to play there with him, then the Hare Krishnas are the ones for you.

Response:

He is a Bhakti yogi. Bhakti’s follow Lord Krishna/Lord Vishnu.

What does yoga has to do with religion/hunduism and all these gods? I have heard that the word "yoga" comes from the root word "yudsh" or "yud" (or something..), and it means uniting. Is the main goal of all these different yoga paths the realization of unity? Bhakti emphasizes devotion and love. Their main literature is

Do you know how to intellectually explain this method of devotion and its effectiveness? Jnana Yoga – Knowledge/discrimination (Vedanta)

Is Bhagavad Gita part of Vedanta literature? Laya Yoga absorption/arousal of Kundalini Kundalini Yoga arousal of Kundalini.

What is there difference between laya and kundalini yoga? Agni Yoga – fire of union. Swara Yoga – the breath.

What asre these? Tantra

Tantra isn’t just a yoga path as for example bhakti and hatha? Vedanta Shaivism Sankhya

Can you tell me what these are?

Response:

He is a Bhakti yogi. Bhakti’s follow Lord Krishna/Lord Vishnu. What does yoga has to do with religion/hunduism and all these gods? I have heard that the word "yoga" comes from the root word "yudsh" or "yud" (or something..), and it means uniting. Is the main goal of all these different yoga paths the realization of unity?

Your mind can’t get it. All yogas are for the same purpose. Freedom from the universe – Liberation – Moksha. Meditation flows out of sustained concentration. Contemplation comes from sustained meditation and Samadhi comes out of contemplation. What you and all other people walking the earth want is samadhi. Samadhi is what everyone is seeking but do not know it. But samadhi does not come easy. Learning to concentrate is like learning to play a musical instrument. It takes patience and practice. Samadhi is like going home. From it all striving suddenly ceases. It is not like when you sleep all striving suddenly ceases there also. But not really. Because if this was true then why do you dream? Samdhi is the answer to all your questions. During samadhi you are superconscious. The world moves in slow motion. You become super-aware and find what you have been searching for all your lives. No longer do you wonder who you are and why you are here. You do not question what needs to be done any longer. You know who you are and why you are here. It is an enormous relief and great inner happiness comes that you did not have even in the grandest of childhood moments. When you go into Self-Realization you are a fool. When you come out of it you are wise. A thunderous laugh may spontaneously arise from the discovery of finding out you are not who you thought you were all these years. Like someone has played a big joke on you. Bhakti emphasizes devotion and love. Their main literature is Do you know how to intellectually explain this method of devotion and its effectiveness?

Very simple. Yoga is about mind control. The mind is not capable of experiencing God. (or anything else) The soul is the experiencer. The soul is the seer. Nature is the seen. (prakriti). Since the mind can not experience God it must silenced so that superconscious intuition can experience God. You do not need to tell God anything. God already knows everything. Your job is to listen. Listening involves shutting up the endless prattle of your thinking mind. You may believe you are in control of your mind right now but you are not. Try to stop thinking and see how long you can do it. From the time people are born until the time they die, they allow their awareness to move from the thoughts to the senses and back again. This is all they know. This is their only reality. No one ever tells them there is anything else. Indeed we cater to our ego’s every whim. But no matter how many times we go after and get what our ego wants we always want more. This is the nature of the ego-mind. Its job is to generate desires and have you go about attempting to satisfy those desires. Is what the Jones are doing and everyone else – this must be life/reality. Yoga teaches detachment from both thoughts and senses. The deliberate withdrawl of your awareness from them. This is done by concentration and requires a great will. When awarness is detached from thoughts and senses it is free to turn inward on itself. When it does it leads to samadhi/Self-Realization. But this is very difficult to achieve like I said. So, for success in concentration sadhana or spiritual practice is done. It takes great will for you to do things for other people such that your ego does not benefit. (I have done this a long time – people here will tell me, no, the reason you did the  kind deed was to bolster your ego – yes and no. It is true that ego takes credit for everything but it still does not like giving away the bigger piece of cake/ there is benefit – No, all you atheists – it is NOT the bolstering of your ego that is the reason for performing kind deeds for others – I get every form of lame brain there is) So performing yoga yama/niyama – like the 10 commandments in the Bible takes great will power and the ego shrinks at the same time. The ego loses power. (it goes down kicking and screaming) When action does not benefit you – you see all thing with equanimity – eveness and with detachment. This brings tranquility and peacefulness of mind. All of these things greatly benefit the yogi toward achieving the single most important goal of all – concentration. By using will all day and shrinking ego – sitting down and controlling the mind is greatly helped/success in concentration is greatly improved. The reason bhakti yoga can work all by itself and we can have people in other religions become Self-Realized is because all that is called for is the concentration. The selfless actions are tools of the yogi to achieve that single end. If you love God so strongly that it is unpleasant for you to think of nothing else (vishudda chakra) – then your mind will be fixed in concentration on God. This leads to samadhi. The goal is samadhi. After samadhi is achieved, there is no longer any question what needs to be done. There is no longer any doubt who you are or why you are here. You know the purpose for your having been born. Samadhi is a recollection of who you really are. So all yogas strive for that single goal – concentration. The means by which they do this is different but they all lead to the same end. And again, I don’t know any type of yoga that does not make use of the elements of the other yogas. They may have names for it in their lineage but the underlying principles are the same. Religions in the west are based solely on faith. Faith in Christianity is a virtue. Not so in the East. Faith is the kind of thing you walk around with till you get the facts. From the Book of Job faith and an unknowable God in Christianity arose. God was not supposed to be a personal experience and you could find yourself burned at the stake for talking that way a few hundred years ago. But not so in the East. Yoga does not require blind faith. The Bhaktis who are able to do this are fortunate because they are correct. Just like the Christians. But not everyone is so fortunate that they can believe on faith. I was not this fortunate/I required more than faith. Today people in religions do not know the true purpose of why they do good things/obey commandments exactly other than – Jesus said so. Or Moses said so. Thats it. But only by concentration can one become liberated and that is the true purpose of sadhana – to lead to that concentration. Before samadhi it is hard to do good. After samadhi it is easier. But depending on how long it has been since a yogi has meditated determines how entangled he becomes like the rest of the world. The difference is that a yogi can DISENTANGLE himself after Self-Realization so he can ever only become so lost. It is simple. Long-winded but simple. Your intellectual mind can not grasp samadhi. Nor can I tell you what an apple tastes like. Appel-taste is an experience and so is God. Words won’t work for either. You have to transcend the mind with concentration and meditation. Psychic experiences along the way provide great encouragement. They are signposts. When you seek to be free from the bondage of Mother Nature/the universe and control nature you come into powers from control of the mind and build up of energy that are not available to ordinary people. For the most part psychic experiences are one-time experiences and you never know when they will appear or in what form. Further, all power comes from God and you are merely a vessel of it. It is possible to learn to repeat psychic experiences but that is rather long winded also. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jnana Yoga – Knowledge/discrimination (Vedanta) Is Bhagavad Gita part of Vedanta literature? Laya Yoga absorption/arousal of Kundalini Kundalini Yoga arousal of Kundalini. What is there difference between laya and kundalini yoga? Agni Yoga – fire of union. Swara Yoga – the breath. What asre these? Tantra Tantra isn’t just a yoga path as for example bhakti and hatha? Vedanta Shaivism Sankhya Can you tell me what these are?

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This guy, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says that you don’t have to do any other yoga practices than chant the krshna-mantra. What is the sense in this?

He is a Bhakti yogi. Bhakti’s follow Lord Krishna/Lord Vishnu. Bhakti emphasizes devotion and love. Their main literature is on Krishna – like the Bhagavad Gita/Uddhava Gita in the Bhagavata-Purana and Samhitas. People have different temperments. Some simply can not do Raja yoga where you concentrate on a yantra or spiritual figure. Bhakti Yoga is like Christianity with its faith and devotion. If you are fortunate enough to succeed in Bhakti Yoga you will save yourself a lot of time and effort. I could not simply have faith/required intellectual understanding so I was attracted to Vedanta and Raja Yoga (ashtanga yoga) and also Hatha Yoga. But I have done lots of Karma Yoga and Bhakti Yoga along the way and 3 years of Kundalini Yoga also. The primary emphasis in Bhakti Yoga is love and devotion and they do a lot of chanting and ritual. They have a main center about 5 miles from my house that is shown in the Smithsonian Institution on a little movie showing Krishna worship. I have spent many afternoons in the Mall in Washington chanting with them for hours. They never seem to tire. Hatha Yoga – physical postures and Kundalini Raja Yoga/Ashtanga Yoga/Patanjali Yoga – 8 fold path Karma Yoga – action. (by unattachment to things and conditions     in the world/not ego-driven hedonist action) Bhakti Yoga – devotion/love – commonly used in conjunction     with Karma Yoga. Jnana Yoga – Knowledge/discrimination (Vedanta) Laya Yoga absorption/arousal of Kundalini Kundalini Yoga arousal of Kundalini. Agni Yoga – fire of union. Swara Yoga – the breath. Associated Tantra Vedanta Shaivism Sankhya probably a lot I can’t think of at the moment Mike Dubbeld

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OM Also see: Realization Through Devotion Talks spanning the Bhakti Aphorisms of Narada Muni of ancient times as well as of other sages such as Sandilya down to the great Bhakti Saints of more recent times such as Ramanuja. The apparent distinction between the absolute monism of Sankara and the qualified monism of Ramanuja is explained. Also, the Krishna Lila with the Gopis which is confusing to many in the laity is described. Formats: .pdf (112 k). http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/download.htm OM

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lord Krishna, His Lilas and Teachings The life, the Lilas and teachings of Lord Krishna depicted in a lucid and inspiring style by a realised saint. A condensed version for the busy person without time to go through the entire tenth and eleventh chapters of the Srimad Bhagavata. http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/download.htm Yoga in Daily Life This is a book with a message of hope, success in life, of peace, of bliss and of the secret of life itself. Formats: .pdf (361 k), .html (496 k) http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/download.htm JAPA YOGA http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/teachings/japayoga.htm Sadhana The Spiritual Way http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/sadh_00.html This guy, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says that you don’t have to do any other yoga practices than chant the krshna-mantra. What is the sense in this?

Response:

This guy, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says that you don’t have to do any other yoga practices than chant the krshna-mantra. What is the sense in this?

Response:

Lord Krishna, His Lilas and Teachings The life, the Lilas and teachings of Lord Krishna depicted in a lucid and inspiring style by a realised saint. A condensed version for the busy person without time to go through the entire tenth and eleventh chapters of the Srimad Bhagavata. http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/download.htm Yoga in Daily Life This is a book with a message of hope, success in life, of peace, of bliss and of the secret of life itself. Formats: .pdf (361 k), .html (496 k) http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/download.htm JAPA YOGA http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/teachings/japayoga.htm Sadhana The Spiritual Way http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/sadh_00.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This guy, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says that you don’t have to do any other yoga practices than chant the krshna-mantra. What is the sense in this?

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training? If I had unlimited financial resources, I’d do this. http://endlesspools.com/why/fun/index.html Notice the person in the second photo. Nathan

I wonder if there is an option for a rock in the middle???

Response:

Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training? If I had unlimited financial resources, I’d do this. http://endlesspools.com/why/fun/index.html Notice the person in the second photo.

Why stop there ? http://www.waveloch.com/index2.html?

Response:

Martial Arts school that specializes in Kung Fu and Tai Chi) and absolutely loved it.  I’ve made lots of excuses not to commit to it – mostly that each class was a 2-1/2 hour commitment because of the driving time – I have to tell you, that’s really not much time compared to the average. Most folks I train with probably spend an hour each way getting there,

45 minutes each way for me plus and hour and fifteen to an hour and a half training,

the class I was taking was exactly an hour long plus time to change, etc.  It basically eats an evening,

I just wore my clothes there and back.  This was a "modern" school and they didn’t wear costumes, just whatever was comfortable for you. and most martial artists agree that to make reasonable progress, you need to train at least three days a week, on an ongoing basis.

Actually, Pat wanted me to do the routine as soon as I got home so that I would remember it.  And he wanted us to do it at home every day, though the classes were just twice a week.    I manage two a week, with a two and a half hour drive each way to get there, but I really do need to train more.

Well, I’ll take 5 hours drive time for a day on the river, but not for a class! – Mothra

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Martial Arts school that specializes in Kung Fu and Tai Chi) and absolutely loved it.  I’ve made lots of excuses not to commit to it – mostly that each class was a 2-1/2 hour commitment because of the driving time – I have to tell you, that’s really not much time compared to the average. Most folks I train with probably spend an hour each way getting there, 45 minutes each way for me plus and hour and fifteen to an hour and a half training, the class I was taking was exactly an hour long plus time to change, etc.  It basically eats an evening, I just wore my clothes there and back.  This was a "modern" school and they didn’t wear costumes, just whatever was comfortable for you.

If you work it, you’ll want to change.  Your friends will want you to, too.  Trust me. and most martial artists agree that to make reasonable progress, you need to train at least three days a week, on an ongoing basis. Actually, Pat wanted me to do the routine as soon as I got home so that I would remember it.  And he wanted us to do it at home every day, though the classes were just twice a week.    I manage two a week, with a two and a half hour drive each way to get there, but I really do need to train more. Well, I’ll take 5 hours drive time for a day on the river, but not for a class!

It’s not something many people will do.  Even with a more normal travel time, martial arts is time-consuming stuff.  The problem is that it’s not just an "off-season" thing — you need to stay with it. So it’s not like, for example, some upper-body workout in your paddling off-season.  Other’n that, though…great stuff! Mike Sigman, where are you? — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

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While you’re at it have a look at: http://www.playboard.no/magazine_more.asp?ID=51 Yes, that’s in Norway! OTOH , maybe you’ve only got a cheap swimmingpool: When we did indoor training in the rowing pool at the national sports centre in Oslo, we made sitontop boards that we put across the pool, and "paddled" these with reduced blade area paddles. Pretty close to the real thing. Of course we trained rolling as well. When we got tired of flat water, we could turn on the flow. There was even a tiny wave that you could surf…… Now we train in a normal swimming pool with deeper water for vertical flatwater moves and more space for setting up a slalom course etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training? If I had unlimited financial resources, I’d do this. http://endlesspools.com/why/fun/index.html Notice the person in the second photo. Why stop there ? http://www.waveloch.com/index2.html?

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"Mary Malmros" wrote Hey, if you’re interested in both yoga and karate, maybe you should take up tai chi.  Only you’ll want to find an instructor who teaches it as a martial art (both the slow and the fast form). If I could find a really good martial arts teacher of any form where I live, I’d be there in a heartbeat.  But rural towns on whitewater rivers are not haven of great martial artists

Well, I actually learned from a collection of 5 or 6 books and 3 video tapes with good results.  For time flexability it’s hard to beat, and if you forget something when you’re practicing, you can just go back to the book or tape. Erik

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"Kathryn Streletzky" wrote I want to get back to tai-chi.  I took 3 introductory classes last year (from a Martial Arts school that specializes in Kung Fu and Tai Chi) and absolutely loved it.  I’ve made lots of excuses not to commit to it – mostly that each class was a 2-1/2 hour commitment because of the driving time – but the benefits were immediately felt.  Maybe in some weird way, it scared me away in that I wasn’t used to getting so profoundly relaxed.  Excellent training for balance, too – probably the weak spot in my paddling.

Yeah, my wife is always laughing when she sees me practicing tai chi, because when she met me she claims that I couldn’t stand on one foot without falling over.  In terms of balance and calm, I’m sure that it’s helped my paddling a lot, but also after I’ve surfed half a day and feel like I’ve about had it, I just walk up the beach and do the long form and I’m ready to surf the rest of the day. Erik

Response:

Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training? I belong to a gym that have a such machine (duplicates a kayak paddling). If I’ll remember, next time I’ll go there I will copy na name. Zalek

The machine is Stairmaster Crossrobics 2650 UE. I couldn’t find a picture of this machine on the Internet, but the closest info I found is: http://www.fitnessoutlet.com/cardio/stairmaster_kayak2650.htm Zalek

Response:

Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training?

If I had unlimited financial resources, I’d do this. http://endlesspools.com/why/fun/index.html Notice the person in the second photo. Nathan

Response:

Absent the perfect paddling machine, what are _you_ going to do in the offseason to get/stay in shape?  I’m not really looking to duplicate paddling, but for general fitness I’m hoping to be doing weights and stationary bike on a regular basis, yoga maybe 2x a week, karate when I can get to it (it’s a 2 1/2 hour drive away), and (I hope) lotsa backcountry skiing and some snowboarding, maybe.  It’s good variety but I’d probably do better with fewer activities and just emphasising a regular six-days-a-week schedule. How about the rest of you?

Hey, if you’re interested in both yoga and karate, maybe you should take up tai chi.  Only you’ll want to find an instructor who teaches it as a martial art (both the slow and the fast form). As for what I do in the winter, now that I only paddle in the surf, I let my upper body muscles recover, and a jog to increase my lung capacity.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Absent the perfect paddling machine, what are _you_ going to do in the offseason to get/stay in shape?  I’m not really looking to duplicate paddling, but for general fitness I’m hoping to be doing weights and stationary bike on a regular basis, yoga maybe 2x a week, karate when I can get to it (it’s a 2 1/2 hour drive away), and (I hope) lotsa backcountry skiing and some snowboarding, maybe.  It’s good variety but I’d probably do better with fewer activities and just emphasising a regular six-days-a-week schedule. How about the rest of you? Hey, if you’re interested in both yoga and karate, maybe you should take up tai chi.  Only you’ll want to find an instructor who teaches it as a martial art (both the slow and the fast form).

If I could find a really good martial arts teacher of any form where I live, I’d be there in a heartbeat.  But rural towns on whitewater rivers are not haven of great martial artists As for what I do in the winter, now that I only paddle in the surf, I let my upper body muscles recover, and a jog to increase my lung capacity.

I think the message I’m getting from the body is, maintain the upper body, significantly strengthen the legs and aerobic stuff.  We’ll see how it goes. — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

Hey, if you’re interested in both yoga and karate, maybe you should take up tai chi.

I want to get back to tai-chi.  I took 3 introductory classes last year (from a Martial Arts school that specializes in Kung Fu and Tai Chi) and absolutely loved it.  I’ve made lots of excuses not to commit to it – mostly that each class was a 2-1/2 hour commitment because of the driving time – but the benefits were immediately felt.  Maybe in some weird way, it scared me away in that I wasn’t used to getting so profoundly relaxed.  Excellent training for balance, too – probably the weak spot in my paddling.   – Mothra

Response:

Hey, if you’re interested in both yoga and karate, maybe you should take up tai chi. I want to get back to tai-chi.  I took 3 introductory classes last year (from a Martial Arts school that specializes in Kung Fu and Tai Chi) and absolutely loved it.  I’ve made lots of excuses not to commit to it – mostly that each class was a 2-1/2 hour commitment because of the driving time –

I have to tell you, that’s really not much time compared to the average. Most folks I train with probably spend an hour each way getting there, plus and hour and fifteen to an hour and a half training, plus time to change, etc.  It basically eats an evening, and most martial artists agree that to make reasonable progress, you need to train at least three days a week, on an ongoing basis.  I manage two a week, with a two and a half hour drive each way to get there, but I really do need to train more. — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training?

Response:

http://www.runagain.com/ Here’s a commercial machine I bookmarked once.  Looks interesting, but I figure the gym with a few shoulder/lat excercises may be just as effective for conditioning.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training?

Response:

I had a go on a machine verry simler to this link two weeks a go the british white water racing team yous them and part of there training its very good also with a coach you can sourt out you forword padiling as I was part of 8 person instruter training seashion and none of owe forword paddling was verry good – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.runagain.com/ Here’s a commercial machine I bookmarked once.  Looks interesting, but I figure the gym with a few shoulder/lat excercises may be just as effective for conditioning. Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training?

Response:

http://www.runagain.com/ Here’s a commercial machine I bookmarked once.  Looks interesting, but I figure the gym with a few shoulder/lat excercises may be just as effective for conditioning.

Probably more so:  this machine would largely target muscular endurance, but would not address muscular strength issues.  A combination of strength and endurance conditioning would be the best. -Wayne

Response:

You might consider a rowing machine.  The leader of that pack is probably the "Concept II".  It doesn’t match the kayak motion perfectly, but gives a good workout over most of the relevant muscle groups, and is excellent for cardio and endurance.  They have a web site with links to dealers and gym locations where you could try it out to see if it fits your needs.

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Somebody makes attachments for ergs (rowing machines for crew people) that mimic paddling.  Apparently they have attachments to replicate both single and double blade paddles.  Let me go ask someone on our facility mangement (who knows exercise equipment) and I’ll get back to the list. Eric Henkel Asst. Director of Outdoor Recreation University of Virginia Wishing he had a sail today – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training?

Response:

Absent the perfect paddling machine, what are _you_ going to do in the offseason to get/stay in shape?  I’m not really looking to duplicate paddling, but for general fitness I’m hoping to be doing weights and stationary bike on a regular basis, yoga maybe 2x a week, karate when I can get to it (it’s a 2 1/2 hour drive away), and (I hope) lotsa backcountry skiing and some snowboarding, maybe.  It’s good variety but I’d probably do better with fewer activities and just emphasising a regular six-days-a-week schedule. How about the rest of you? — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

Check this out.  Looks stupid to me but it may answer your question! http://www.hammacher.com/s_and_l/slindex.asp

Response:

In response to original poster (not Jason): Easy enough to make your own by modifying anything with a resistance wheel (such as the arm part of a nordic track–I’m sure that’s what’s inside the German machine’s high techj plastic cover). Cheapest way would probably be to use something like cinderblocks dragging horizontally for frictional resistance with several small pulleys (but you’ll need earplugs or loud music). You can use weight and gravity for the resistance but the similarity to the kayaking stroke breaks down due to effect of gravity on top hand forward motion (but this could be ok for conditioning–just less realistic). With all of these you can even sit in your boat if you want, though will need to be elevated in order to have resistance attachment near blade. Also, the farther away you can put the resistance, the more horizontal (and reasistic) the forces will be.         Or you can bundle up and paddle outside.

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"Mary Malmros" wrote Absent the perfect paddling machine, what are _you_ going to do in the offseason to get/stay in shape

Weights and cardio on a stepper machine. For time efficiency, I  do 5-15 lb. weights while I’m exercising on the (Precor) stepper. I’ve removed the handles on the stepper so that it doesn’t get in the way of the weights. I do this for 40 minutes, 5 or 6 times a week. I also try do some simple yoga and stretch every day. And when the heavenly stuff comes down, cross-country skiing motivated by having a go at the Canadian Ski Marathon (www.csm-mcs.com). Eddy "snowly" Rapid — AKA Parham Momtahan

Response:

Does anyone know of an exercise machine that duplicates the motion of paddling for winter training?

I belong to a gym that have a such machine (duplicates a kayak paddling). If I’ll remember, next time I’ll go there I will copy na name. Zalek

Response:

Weell, my back has decided that first I’m going to try and get away from having to use the cane that I picked back up a few weeks ago (after a 7 year hiatus), and doing a bunch of silly-looking stretching excercises that my physical therapist has given me. I’m also doing a bunch of pool work: water walking in 4′ of water, swimming and aqua-jogging. Target date for getting back on the water is maybe spring! — Paddlrat Clique # 00 Living proof that rats can swim! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Absent the perfect paddling machine, what are _you_ going to do in the offseason to get/stay in shape?  I’m not really looking to duplicate paddling, but for general fitness I’m hoping to be doing weights and stationary bike on a regular basis, yoga maybe 2x a week, karate when I can get to it (it’s a 2 1/2 hour drive away), and (I hope) lotsa backcountry skiing and some snowboarding, maybe.  It’s good variety but I’d probably do better with fewer activities and just emphasising a regular six-days-a-week schedule. How about the rest of you? — :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart for the joys of the multitude"

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Question:

Thanks for the info, Cindy.  Sounds good! Hmm we pronounce it "pee-lah-teeze" here.  Must be the accent. *big grin* Yes, I do lots of cardio already (40 min. cycling every day plus 35 min. cardio at the gym 3-4 times a week PLUS yoga once a week…phew!) so this is in addition to my regular workout.  I liked the idea that it helps with posture and building up strength in the back and abs.  I spend the day slouched over a computer at work, so I need it! — Cheers, Petal, in the UK (WW At Home) 187 – January/99 163 – started WW June/01 158 – this week 140ish – goal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The subject of Pilates (pronounced pul-aat-ees) has brought me out of lurkdom!  I’ve been taking Pilates classes since June, and I love it.  My abs and my back are so much stronger now (though no flat tummy yet – I need to lose more weight for that), and my posture has really improved, plus I feel a lot more limber.  I’ve gone through the intro Pilates classes at my gym, called Pilates 101, and I just started on the next level of classes, Power Pilates, this past Thursday.  My abs were sore for a good two days.  It’s more of a strengthening and flexibility workout than cardio (though I can work up a good sweat in class most of the time), so you should try to supplement it with cardio workouts. Lara, did you try the class?  How did it go?

Response:

Welcome back Cindy – finally a subject to prise you out of lurkdom!! — Val [take one away to email] restart 168/165/140-NYC http://www.geocities.com/brimfasthouse/ First say to yourself what you would be, then do what you have to do.   — Epictetus

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The subject of Pilates (pronounced pul-aat-ees) has brought me out of lurkdom!  I’ve been taking Pilates classes since June, and I love it.  My abs and my back are so much stronger now (though no flat tummy yet – I need to lose more weight for that), and my posture has really improved, plus I feel a lot more limber.  I’ve gone through the intro Pilates classes at my gym, called Pilates 101, and I just started on the next level of classes, Power Pilates, this past Thursday.  My abs were sore for a good two days.  It’s more of a strengthening and flexibility workout than cardio (though I can work up a good sweat in class most of the time), so you should try to supplement it with cardio workouts. Lara, did you try the class?  How did it go? Has anyone done pilates?  I just got a book about it and I’m interested in giving it a go.  Plus, if it gives me abs like Geri Halliwell, I’m all for it. <g It’s hard work. It’s not like simple yoga or anything like that. The mat classes are more or less an entire hour focused on your abs! But I hear if you keep up with it, it really flattens your tummy and can improve your posture. There is an 8:30 a.m. Pilates mat class at my gym. I may give it a try tomorrow. Lara

Response:

Great to see you once again, Cindy!! Welcome back….  :o) —  ~ Missy ~ from Alberta, Canada….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The subject of Pilates (pronounced pul-aat-ees) has brought me out of lurkdom!  I’ve been taking Pilates classes since June, and I love it.  My abs and my back are so much stronger now (though no flat tummy yet – I need to lose more weight for that), and my posture has really improved, plus I feel a lot more limber.  I’ve gone through the intro Pilates classes at my gym, called Pilates 101, and I just started on the next level of classes, Power Pilates, this past Thursday.  My abs were sore for a good two days.  It’s more of a strengthening and flexibility workout than cardio (though I can work up a good sweat in class most of the time), so you should try to supplement it with cardio workouts. Lara, did you try the class?  How did it go? Has anyone done pilates?  I just got a book about it and I’m interested in giving it a go.  Plus, if it gives me abs like Geri Halliwell, I’m all for it. <g It’s hard work. It’s not like simple yoga or anything like that. The mat classes are more or less an entire hour focused on your abs! But I hear if you keep up with it, it really flattens your tummy and can improve your posture. There is an 8:30 a.m. Pilates mat class at my gym. I may give it a try tomorrow. Lara

Response:

The subject of Pilates (pronounced pul-aat-ees) has brought me out of lurkdom!  I’ve been taking Pilates classes since June, and I love it.  My abs and my back are so much stronger now (though no flat tummy yet – I need to lose more weight for that), and my posture has really improved, plus I feel a lot more limber.  I’ve gone through the intro Pilates classes at my gym, called Pilates 101, and I just started on the next level of classes, Power Pilates, this past Thursday.  My abs were sore for a good two days.  It’s more of a strengthening and flexibility workout than cardio (though I can work up a good sweat in class most of the time), so you should try to supplement it with cardio workouts. Lara, did you try the class?  How did it go? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone done pilates?  I just got a book about it and I’m interested in giving it a go.  Plus, if it gives me abs like Geri Halliwell, I’m all for it. <g It’s hard work. It’s not like simple yoga or anything like that. The mat classes are more or less an entire hour focused on your abs! But I hear if you keep up with it, it really flattens your tummy and can improve your posture. There is an 8:30 a.m. Pilates mat class at my gym. I may give it a try tomorrow. Lara

Response:

Thanks, Lara.  BTW, I don’t find yoga to be simple at all!  I’m still feeling it in my legs today, and my class was on Thursday night.  It’s a fabulous workout. — Cheers, Petal UK (WW At Home) 187/158/140ish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s hard work. It’s not like simple yoga or anything like that. The mat classes are more or less an entire hour focused on your abs! But I hear if you keep up with it, it really flattens your tummy and can improve your posture. There is an 8:30 a.m. Pilates mat class at my gym. I may give it a try tomorrow. Lara

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Will do, Wired!  So far, I find the theory behind it really interesting. — Cheers, Petal UK (WW At Home) 187/158/140ish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are way ahead of me. Tonight I just bought Weight Training for Dummies. Let us know what you think of the Pilates book. — Wired_1 http://community.webshots.com/user/2wired2stop 215/149.2/158 Recycle – Ride your bike again today.

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Has anyone done pilates?  I just got a book about it and I’m interested in giving it a go.  Plus, if it gives me abs like Geri Halliwell, I’m all for it. <g

It’s hard work. It’s not like simple yoga or anything like that. The mat classes are more or less an entire hour focused on your abs! But I hear if you keep up with it, it really flattens your tummy and can improve your posture. There is an 8:30 a.m. Pilates mat class at my gym. I may give it a try tomorrow. Lara

Response:

Has anyone done pilates?  I just got a book about it and I’m interested in giving it a go.  Plus, if it gives me abs like Geri Halliwell, I’m all for it. <g Opinions?  Advice?  Benefits? — Cheers, Petal UK (WW At Home) 187/158/140ish

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Has anyone done pilates?  I just got a book about it and I’m interested in giving it a go.  

You are way ahead of me. Tonight I just bought Weight Training for Dummies.   Let us know what you think of the Pilates book. — Wired_1 http://community.webshots.com/user/2wired2stop 215/149.2/158 Recycle – Ride your bike again today.

Response:

Question:

Hi, First thanks for all the advice! Now I have another appt with a "deep tissue massage, chinese-type" guy tomorrow.  He’ll massage the muscle to help "move the chi/energy" along, I think no harm,since he charges only like 20 dollars. NOW, my PCP is sending me to a…."physical medicine" guy. He is not a DC, or an Osteropath or a PT, should I demand another guy? I think he’ll just try to rehab my back…. Should I ask for; 1. MRI to see if it is a disk problem 2. A X-ray to see if it is a facet problem? I’m worried he’ll rehab me without "really" finding out with the problem is, and that could cause problems later on… Any advice?  I’m kinda a wuss, so I feel weird questioning my PCP or the doctor I got refered to. Thanks -Tony

Response:

If you can get him to do an mri, go for it. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, First thanks for all the advice! Now I have another appt with a "deep tissue massage, chinese-type" guy tomorrow.  He’ll massage the muscle to help "move the chi/energy" along, I think no harm,since he charges only like 20 dollars. NOW, my PCP is sending me to a…."physical medicine" guy. He is not a DC, or an Osteropath or a PT, should I demand another guy? I think he’ll just try to rehab my back…. Should I ask for; 1. MRI to see if it is a disk problem 2. A X-ray to see if it is a facet problem? I’m worried he’ll rehab me without "really" finding out with the problem is, and that could cause problems later on… Any advice?  I’m kinda a wuss, so I feel weird questioning my PCP or the doctor I got refered to. Thanks -Tony

Response:

   Hi Dr. Hicks…first off thanks for all the help!  and everyone else too! Now, my PCP is sending me to a…physiolist (I CANT SPELL!!) it rhymns with podietrist (foot doctor) it is a MD that specializes in rehab. Is this the right person for me? Should I ask to see a DC or an Osteropath instead? I am afraid that he will just try to rehab me without knowing/finding out with "exactly" is wrong with me…this could cause problems later on? What should I do?  Should I request tests, etc? Thanks -Tony

Response:

I like to follow a conservative to aggressive approach.  I’d get the xray first, and if there were any sign of disc space height loss then go for a MRI. About talking to the doctor, just remember that he problably wipes his rear the same as you.  Lets say he’s an educated paperboy.  If he didn’t get the paper to the house would  you let him know about it.  Damn straight you would  and your health is a lot more important than that paper.  He absolutely can not help you if you do not tell him what you need and want. What he wants will not fit your need.  If he insists on treating his wants let him pay for the office visit.  You have to demand service!  He wants happy patients but he has to know how to make you happy.  Your purpose is not to question his authority, but to clarify your concerns and needs.  I like to think that if we take our doctors off of the untouchable god shelf that they might learn to listen better. There is nothing wrong with seeing a physical medicine doctor (physiatrist) as long as he diagnoses the problem before he begins rehab treatment. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, First thanks for all the advice! Now I have another appt with a "deep tissue massage, chinese-type" guy tomorrow.  He’ll massage the muscle to help "move the chi/energy" along, I think no harm,since he charges only like 20 dollars. NOW, my PCP is sending me to a…."physical medicine" guy. He is not a DC, or an Osteropath or a PT, should I demand another guy? I think he’ll just try to rehab my back…. Should I ask for; 1. MRI to see if it is a disk problem 2. A X-ray to see if it is a facet problem? I’m worried he’ll rehab me without "really" finding out with the problem is, and that could cause problems later on… Any advice?  I’m kinda a wuss, so I feel weird questioning my PCP or the doctor I got refered to. Thanks -Tony

Response:

Dr. Hicks is a Chiropractor.  The advice he offers here is sound. He has not tried to sell anything to anybody. He is entitled to the title DOCTOR. So what is your problem with him? Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

are praying up a storm….yes for the medication but also for you to have trust and vision that you are in the right hands and it will happen soon.  Blessings, Donna — Donna Marie Holt One Day At A Time One Prayer At A Time  o Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks for the save.  I do and will not push products. This is a no spam NG. That is just one of my many facets of life.  I can make a mean mustang grape wine and mow the hell out of the yard.    I’m just proud of my boy and wife. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dr Hicks is a doctor of chiropractic medicine (D.C.) He doesn’t/ hasn’t pushed any products here. Whether you choose to follow his after post links is up to you. His posted information to the group appears to be intelligent and knowledgable. Gary Hey "Dr." Hicks, Went to your website to see what kind of "doc" you are.  What kind of professional medical degree is a "D.C."?  You sign your name:  Roland R. Hicks, D.C. Nice job coming to our list to give advice, and then leading us to your website.  Slick. Jean Mc. Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE:

http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter:

http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 Cush http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/index.htm . . . Fixing OA with G/CS http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/badback.htm . . .Bad Backs Page (166 Links) http://www.iso-trac.com . . . Fixing bad backs with traction http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/tips.htm . . . Tips for Newbies to ASA

Response:

Dr Hicks is a doctor of chiropractic medicine (D.C.) He doesn’t/ hasn’t pushed any products here. Whether you choose to follow his after post links is up to you. His posted information to the group appears to be intelligent and knowledgable. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey "Dr." Hicks, Went to your website to see what kind of "doc" you are.  What kind of professional medical degree is a "D.C."?  You sign your name:  Roland R. Hicks, D.C. Nice job coming to our list to give advice, and then leading us to your website.  Slick. Jean Mc. Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE:

http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter:

http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 Cush http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/index.htm . . . Fixing OA with G/CS http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/badback.htm . . .Bad Backs Page (166 Links) http://www.iso-trac.com . . . Fixing bad backs with traction http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/tips.htm . . . Tips for Newbies to ASA

Response:

DISH  has many of the same characteristics of facet syndrome

Thanks for your response to my question. Rose

Response:

I am a doctor of chiropractic with a postgraduate certification in sport injuries and rehabilitation.  I will be starting a nutrition diplomate program in September if the those administration fellows can stop all their political bikering.  I have not been able to get a chiropractic web page together yet but I figure by the end of the year it will be up.  I say Cushman’s site and it rocked. Here’s our last family picture  and a little about me, my wife has graduated from college magna cum laude and my boy is now 2 years old, 40 inches tall and over 41 lbs. and I’m glad he has his Mom’s good looks. http://drhicks.powerplayers.com/story.html Ignore the MLM talk if it offends you. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey "Dr." Hicks, Went to your website to see what kind of "doc" you are.  What kind of professional medical degree is a "D.C."?  You sign your name:  Roland R. Hicks, D.C. Nice job coming to our list to give advice, and then leading us to your website.  Slick. Jean Mc. Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE:

http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter:

http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 Cush http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/index.htm . . . Fixing OA with G/CS http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/badback.htm . . .Bad Backs Page (166 Links) http://www.iso-trac.com . . . Fixing bad backs with traction http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/tips.htm . . . Tips for Newbies to ASA

Response:

: Facet syndrome is caused by poor posture, sleeping habits, poor lifting : habits and overuse of the posterior joints in the spine by repetitive : activities.  I is a condition which gradually sneeks up and causes pain it : is not due to a disease process but more related to poor spinal function.     Ok, I have bad posture, I do have bad lifting habits… But I do sleep on my back, with no pillows under my legs though. : your knees or on your back with a couple of pillows under your knees.  avoid : activities which cause hyperextension of your lower back and this includes : full situps and improper crunches.   Ice every night before sleep for     Actually I play alot of handball, so sometimes I have to really reach out to get the ball…hyperextension? : then the other then both.  If the pain is caused by facet pressure the : double knee to the chest will feel like heaven and you will wish you could : sleep in that position.     Actually these were some of the stretches I do/did…on knee to chest is ok, but when I do both knees, this causes my lower spine to bend (curve) and that causes pain… Nowadays, about 2 months afterward, the pain is mostly gone.  If I somehow manage to bend my lower (pelvic height) spine then I feel pain coming fromthe spine itself.   I get pain from pelvic tilts sometimes, also…if I sit up, and TOTALLY relax my upper body, then my head/chest starts to bend forward and when the bend getsto the lower/lower back then it starts to hurt…the sciatica only affected me the first month, then the pain went to my knee sometimes,ankle sometimes, but the pain only shoot down my leg once in awhile…most of the time it was just in the butt. Now I feel it in my butt once in awhile…its mostly the spine pain that bothers me now Could it be something else? Thanks!! -Tony

Response:

Dr. Hicks is a Chiropractor.  The advice he offers here is sound.   He has not tried to sell anything to anybody. He is entitled to the title DOCTOR. So what is your problem with him? Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

Tony, The pillows under your knees while you sleep reduce the curve in the back and take the pressure off the posterior joints and since the knees are bent it also relieves any tension on the sciatic nerve and the nerve roots. With overstretching as to hit the ball you will have some lumbar hyperextension especially if you are stretching upward.  If you are stretching out to the side, this will bring in a rotation component to the disc and this may irritate a degenerative disc. The pain caused by pulling both knees to the chest could be associated with the same movement as a pelvic tilt except the abdominal muscles are pulling with the pelvic tilt.  These maneuvers put a localized stretch on the posterior joints but can also put some pressure into the disc.  If the pain is local and not radiating, exersise up to the pain and hold. Do not ever force a movement through pain.  If the body is capable, the benefits of the limited exercise will be felt approx. 15degrees further than you can move without pain. If the pain is traveling down the let do not continue the exercises because this is a nerve tension sign and nerves hate tension and they will make you suffer if you stretch them. The cause of this problem could be any number of things, see you doctor or specialist.  Diagnostic testing is a must when dealing with spinal conditions.  There are too many factors which can cause your symptoms and only with differential diagnostic examination and proceedures will you know the answers to your health  questions. I’m hear to help in any way possible. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990

Response:

The best way to tell if you have just sciatica or a radiculapathy(nerve pressure causing damage) is that sciatica usually goes to the knee and radiculopathy usually goes to the foot.  But this is not an absolute and I would have to agree that if there are signs of a nerve root involvement that a MRI is needed to properly evaluate the problem.  It is totally possible as Cush stated that you have a degenerative disk also.  Disk degeneration is also associated with facet syndrome in that if the disk space decreased then undue pressure is again applied to the facet joints in back.  The question that needs to be clarified is if you are having sciatica(painful sciatic nerve due to multiple irritations) or radiculopathy(radiating pain down a nerve root). In regards to most spinal conditions "resolve in a few weeks", it is true that the SYMPTOMS of an acute flare up of most spinal conditions reduce in a few weeks. But the CONDITION remains and without treatment for correction or reduction of the condition it will return causing more pain, inflammation and increased activity and worsening of the now arthritic condition. I as a doctor fully understand Cush’s position.  Heck, what I do, Spinal Manipulation, looks like professional wrestling to most people.  The secret is that each patient must be treated according to their needs, not given the same treatment that you did on the last patient. It is true that if not properly treated a disc will get inflammed if put through an excessive twisting movement due to the alignment of the ligaments of the disk.  There are no studies or clinical evidence that a spinal manipulation if applied under traction can EVER cause a disk herniation.  It is like putting a suction on a syringe can not cause the fluid inside to squirt out.  This has been shown in studies and solidified in our legal system.  There are even clinical studies which show that following spinal manipulation with traction some disk herniations/bulges are reduced.  Again, the efficacy of the patient’s treatment options are hanging on the question of nerve irritation or nerve damage. I do have to say that Cush has one hell of a website and I will be reading it all as I have time.  It is a great reference source. Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cush http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/index.htm . . . Fixing OA with G/CS http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/badback.htm . . .Bad Backs Page (166 Links) http://www.iso-trac.com . . . Fixing bad backs with traction http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/tips.htm . . . Tips for Newbies to ASA

Response:

DISH  has many of the same characteristics of facet syndrome but the joint stiffness and fusions are due to a candle like calcification of the front of the vertebrae usually 3 or more without a calcification of the posterior facet joints.  It is common in the lumbar, thoracic and cervical spines in decending incidence.  DISH is diagnosed by Xray primarily.  The treatment for DISH is primarily conservative stretching and mobilization of the spine. I do not know of any medications for the disease other than the antiinflammatory medications that most MDs prescribe when someone with DISH irritates a vertebra that has almost calcified.  The condition is progressive and over time most of the spine will have this flowing calcification in front of the vertebrae which limits all spinal motion. When I have the opportunity to treat a patient who has DISH I can only ((((((gently))))))) treat those joints  that have not calcified.  I do not want to unfuse(fracture) something and have the patient go through hell and inflammation which would cause the calcium to proliferate. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dr. Hicks: What can you tell us about DISH (diffuse idiopathic skeletal hyperostosis)?  My sister was recently diagnosed with this. I have found very little info on the ‘net about it except that there are distinct spinal changes that are noticeable on ex-ray. One article quoted here suggested that this condition was common- and could even have a higher prevalence than fibromyalgia– but that it was often undiagnosed. How would that condition be different than the facet syndrome under discussion in this thread? Could DISH be treated effectively by a chiropractor? Thanks so much. Rose

Response:

Cush: I couldn’t agree more about manipulation and it causing more pain in the end than before.  I started out with a Chiropractor before I was diagnosed with anything.  Things just got progressively worse in a matter of a few months and $$$$$$ later.  Finally, one day he pulled on my leg too hard and I started bellering and crying.  I would imagine all his patients heard me.  That was enough for me.  That is when I was sent to the RD and finally started getting diagnoses.  Don’t get me wrong, I think Chiropractors can do great things but it depends upon what it is they are doing and for what problem.  My Chiropractor was a peach but he too realized I was beyond his help and was smart enough to admit it. Jeannette

Response:

Hey "Dr." Hicks, Went to your website to see what kind of "doc" you are.  What kind of professional medical degree is a "D.C."?  You sign your name:  Roland R. Hicks, D.C. Nice job coming to our list to give advice, and then leading us to your website.  Slick. Jean Mc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 Cush http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/index.htm . . . Fixing OA with G/CS http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/badback.htm . . .Bad Backs Page (166 Links) http://www.iso-trac.com . . . Fixing bad backs with traction http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/tips.htm . . . Tips for Newbies to ASA

Response:

Facet syndrome is caused by poor posture, sleeping habits, poor lifting habits and overuse of the posterior joints in the spine by repetitive activities.  I is a condition which gradually sneeks up and causes pain it is not due to a disease process but more related to poor spinal function. avoid sleeping on your stomach, sleep on your sides with a pillow between your knees or on your back with a couple of pillows under your knees.  avoid activities which cause hyperextension of your lower back and this includes full situps and improper crunches.   Ice every night before sleep for approx. 20 minutes and do knee/chest exercises(pulling one knee to the chest then the other then both.  If the pain is caused by facet pressure the double knee to the chest will feel like heaven and you will wish you could sleep in that position. When you wake up do your knee/chest stretches before you get out of bed. when you go to stand up look upward to set the spine and that will reduce the pain.  When you look down your eyes are telling your back that you should bend forward and when you do that it puts even more pressure on the spine. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : It sounds like a classic case of lumbar facet syndrome.  You have a tension, : tightness or pressure in the joints of the lower back and this causes : irritation to the joints, nerves, muscles, and ligaments of the lower back, : buttocks and thighs.  With facet syndrome the pain and stiffness is : primarily noted after sleep and prolonged sitting in one place(resting). : Once you start moving the joints loosen up and warm up giving you more : mobility with less pain. BUT, the joints still have the tension and or : pressure which cause joint irritation and reflex muscle tightness leading to : a cycle of joint pressure tightness-joint irritation-muscle guarding and : overactivity which leads to more joint pressure.    Hi, what usually causes this?  Bad mattress, bad posture, etc? What can "I" do at home to try and prevent/correct this? Any/all advice would be great! Thanks -Tony

Response:

: It sounds like a classic case of lumbar facet syndrome.  You have a tension, : tightness or pressure in the joints of the lower back and this causes : irritation to the joints, nerves, muscles, and ligaments of the lower back, : buttocks and thighs.  With facet syndrome the pain and stiffness is : primarily noted after sleep and prolonged sitting in one place(resting). : Once you start moving the joints loosen up and warm up giving you more : mobility with less pain. BUT, the joints still have the tension and or : pressure which cause joint irritation and reflex muscle tightness leading to : a cycle of joint pressure tightness-joint irritation-muscle guarding and : overactivity which leads to more joint pressure.    Hi, what usually causes this?  Bad mattress, bad posture, etc? What can "I" do at home to try and prevent/correct this? Any/all advice would be great! Thanks -Tony

Response:

Dr. Hicks: What can you tell us about DISH (diffuse idiopathic skeletal hyperostosis)?  My sister was recently diagnosed with this. I have found very little info on the ‘net about it except that there are distinct spinal changes that are noticeable on ex-ray. One article quoted here suggested that this condition was common- and could even have a higher prevalence than fibromyalgia– but that it was often undiagnosed. How would that condition be different than the facet syndrome under discussion in this thread? Could DISH be treated effectively by a chiropractor? Thanks so much. Rose

Response:

It sounds like a classic case of lumbar facet syndrome.  You have a tension, tightness or pressure in the joints of the lower back and this causes irritation to the joints, nerves, muscles, and ligaments of the lower back, buttocks and thighs.  With facet syndrome the pain and stiffness is primarily noted after sleep and prolonged sitting in one place(resting). Once you start moving the joints loosen up and warm up giving you more mobility with less pain. BUT, the joints still have the tension and or pressure which cause joint irritation and reflex muscle tightness leading to a cycle of joint pressure tightness-joint irritation-muscle guarding and overactivity which leads to more joint pressure. Heat will give you the relaxed warm fuzzies but it will also increase inflammation which will cause the problem to either escalate or reoccur. When in doubt use ICE.  Good rule of thumb- if you see Troy Akeman, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Emmitt Smith or any other pro sports star using heat then I will recommend it, until then don’t do anything that has a potential to aggravate the condition. Ice reduces inflammation, increases circulation, reduces pain by inhibiting nerve activity, increases muscle tone, and make the tea in south Texas cool. I see patient’s with problems like yours all day long.  I would recommend that you seek the care of a good spinal manipulation doctor i.e.. chiropractor or osteopath. and get examined and if it is a facet syndrome it should take approx. 5 manipulation treatments to get a 50-80% improvement in your condition. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks — Manage Joint Pain Without a Rx!: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ 10 Reasons to Join FREELIFE: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/makemoney/top1… stojoin/body.cfm FREE Health and Wellness Newsletter: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/wellne… e/body.cfm E-Commerce and Home Business Opportunities with MVPs: http://drhicks.moneyfreedom.com/ Toll Free 1(877) 791-8686 or (956) 718-1990 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone,I developed (I think) a slight case of sciatica about a month and a half ago.  Here’s the story: On sat, my lower back was stiff, then sunday night it hurt alot!  Monday I could barely tie my shoes…weird thing is, I’ve had lower back pain before, but its been in the muscles and it hurt where the lower back is curved toward the stomach. But this time the pain seems to be coming frommy spine about hip high…weird.   I also got the occasional shooting sensation down my right leg, hence the slight case of sciatica. Now the pain is mostly gone, when I sit for about half hour or so, I get a little dull aching on my right butt, along the nerve, but I still have a bit of pain in my lower, ower back (about hip/pevic high) when I bend over, or stretch out alot (when I reach for a ball in handball) But my question is this: WHY is it that when I wake up, my entire lower back is very stiff and hurts?  It mostly goes away after half a hour but still anonying. Any ideas? Thanks -Tony

Response:

This sounds similar to what I’m experiencing, except not as bad. I am having a lot of pain in my sacroiliac joints, which are located exactly where you state (pelvic level, across the back). My pain is worst at night and in the morning. As I start moving, it slowly disappears (never all, but most). My RD has told me that what I probably have is a spondyloarthropathic arthritis, since some of my small joints in my body (hands, feet) are involved as well. I don’t have a 100 % diagnosis yet since they want to do a bone scan to check for inflammation. Good luck. Hope this helped. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone,I developed (I think) a slight case of sciatica about a month and a half ago.  Here’s the story: On sat, my lower back was stiff, then sunday night it hurt alot!  Monday I could barely tie my shoes…weird thing is, I’ve had lower back pain before, but its been in the muscles and it hurt where the lower back is curved toward the stomach. But this time the pain seems to be coming frommy spine about hip high…weird.   I also got the occasional shooting sensation down my right leg, hence the slight case of sciatica. Now the pain is mostly gone, when I sit for about half hour or so, I get a little dull aching on my right butt, along the nerve, but I still have a bit of pain in my lower, ower back (about hip/pevic high) when I bend over, or stretch out alot (when I reach for a ball in handball) But my question is this: WHY is it that when I wake up, my entire lower back is very stiff and hurts?  It mostly goes away after half a hour but still anonying. Any ideas? Thanks -Tony

Response:

: The muscles in your lower back spasm when the nerve is inflamed : and then when you are not walking (like when you sleep) they get : stiff.      Ahhh so thats why! : What I do when my sciatica flares up is use a heatiing : pad.  It seems that the more I move, the stiffer it gets when I : am still for a while.  Also, if you would try just a few simple    But when it flares up…I’ve always heard that heat is not good, ICE to keep the swelling down. : yoga positions ( find a video or book for the basic ones) I : think you would be pleasantly surprised.    How often do you do it?  I do these stretches: 1. Cobra?  (like a pushup, but only upper body) 2. Cat and camal (hunch your back and then arch it) 3. The one where you have your left foot next to your right butt, left knee on ground, and your right footflat on the outside of the left knee. 4. The one where you’re on all fours and then extend your left leg back and your right arm forward 5. Pelvic tilts    Now I do these…errr when I think of them, like twice a week or 3 times…but it doesn’t seem to help.  Does it make THAT much a difference to do it everyday? Thanks! -Tony

Response:

It sounds like a classic case of lumbar facet syndrome. You have a tension, tightness or pressure in the joints of the lower back and this causes irritation to the joints, nerves, muscles, and ligaments of the lower back, buttocks and thighs.

With the serious sciatic pain Tony described, I’m betting it is primarily a disc problem. With facet syndrome the pain and stiffness is primarily noted after sleep and prolonged sitting in one

place(resting). I agree, but know first-hand that a bad disc will make you pay for sleeping or sitting in one position too long, too. Maybe Tony has that ubiquitous combination, degenerative disc AND facet syndrome. I see patient’s with problems like yours all day long.  I would recommend that you seek the care of a good spinal manipulation doctor i.e.. chiropractor or osteopath. and get examined and if it is a facet syndrome it should take approx. 5 manipulation treatments to get a

50-80% improvement in your condition.

Study after study has shown that most back pain of this sort resolves itself in a few weeks, no matter what you do or don’t do.   However, if the problem is a disc, I don’t think manipulation does any real good.   The wrong kind of manipulation (i.e., the twist they apply to crack your lumbar vertebrae) can make you wish you hadn’t gotten out of bed that day.   A *lot* of people in the spine forums report going to chiro’s for back pain and experiencing a sudden, acute pain upon manipulation  –  they firmly believe that it was the manipulation that caused their bulging disc to herniate.   I think if the disc was that bad, it was going to blow out soon anyway, but still . . . In the early years I thought chiro manip was helping my bad disc, because I’d feel better for 12 – 24 hours afterward. But in the end I left my chiro’s office on my hands and knees, unable to get to my feet w/o blacking out from the pain, to get into my wife’s car so she could drive me to the E.R.   That, of course, was a waste of a lot of money, as they don’t do anything (useful) that a G.P. doesn’t do. Anyway, beware of the twisting spine-crack if your problem is a bad disc. The best dx tools for determining whether it is a disc are the imagers, MRI and CT.   They aren’t foolproof, but they are the best thing we have.   Tony might want to see a spine specialist (usually a surgeon) and get a MRI. Once you have that, though, RUN, walk or crawl away as fast as you can!  :) Cush http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/index.htm . . . Fixing OA with G/CS http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/badback.htm . . .Bad Backs Page (166 Links) http://www.iso-trac.com . . . Fixing bad backs with traction http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/tips.htm . . . Tips for Newbies to ASA

Response:

Hi everyone,I developed (I think) a slight case of sciatica about a month and a half ago.  Here’s the story: On sat, my lower back was stiff, then sunday night it hurt alot!  Monday I could barely tie my shoes…weird thing is, I’ve had lower back pain before, but its been in the muscles and it hurt where the lower back is curved toward the stomach. But this time the pain seems to be coming frommy spine about hip high…weird.   I also got the occasional shooting sensation down my right leg, hence the slight case of sciatica. Now the pain is mostly gone, when I sit for about half hour or so, I get a little dull aching on my right butt, along the nerve, but I still have a bit of pain in my lower, ower back (about hip/pevic high) when I bend over, or stretch out alot (when I reach for a ball in handball) But my question is this: WHY is it that when I wake up, my entire lower back is very stiff and hurts?  It mostly goes away after half a hour but still anonying. Any ideas? Thanks -Tony

Response:

Hi everyone,I

developed (I think) a slight case of sciatica about a month and

a half ago.  Here’s the story: On sat, my lower back was stiff,

then sunday night it hurt alot!  Monday I could barely tie my

shoes…weird thing is, I’ve had lower back pain before, but

its been in the muscles and it hurt where the lower back is curved toward the stomach. But this time the pain seems to

be coming frommy spine about hip high…weird.   I also got the

occasional shooting sensation down my right leg, hence the

slight case of sciatica. Now the pain is mostly gone, when I

sit for about half hour or so, I get a little dull aching on my

right butt, along the nerve, but I still have a bit of pain in

my lower, ower back (about hip/pevic high) when I bend over, or

stretch out alot (when I reach for a ball in handball) But my question is this: WHY is it that when I wake up, my entire

lower back is very stiff and hurts?  It mostly goes away after

half a hour but still anonying. Any ideas? Thanks

Dear Tony, The muscles in your lower back spasm when the nerve is inflamed and then when you are not walking (like when you sleep) they get stiff.  What I do when my sciatica flares up is use a heatiing pad.  It seems that the more I move, the stiffer it gets when I am still for a while.  Also, if you would try just a few simple yoga positions ( find a video or book for the basic ones) I think you would be pleasantly surprised. I’ve been using yoga for 6 years and I’m more flexible than when I was 25 (I’m 49 now).  Also I’ve found that when I practice yoga if I DO twist something, it takes very little time to resolve itself and very little pain medication of any kind.  I hope this helps. I breathe, therefore I am Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Question:

I wish to start practicising Yoga….but I am unsure of the different types of Yoga there appear to be. Which would you recommend, and is it necessary to go to a teacher or is there stuff on the net – I already found a page entitled an introduction to simple yoga – its only one page long, but its a start.

The best way to start yoga is the basic Yoga, or Hatha yoga. This is yoga for beginners. Gerbrand.

Response:

I wish to start practicising Yoga….but I am unsure of the different types of Yoga there appear to be. Which would you recommend, and is it necessary to go to a teacher or is there stuff on the net – I already found a page entitled an introduction to simple yoga – its only one page long, but its a start.

Response:

Try www.yogasite.com.  Its got a description of different styles of yoga and lots of other info to help get you started. Tim

Response:

Hello fellow human being, I wish to start practicising Yoga….but I am unsure of the different types of Yoga there appear to be. Which would you recommend, and is it necessary to go to a teacher or is there stuff on the net – I already found a page entitled an introduction to simple yoga – its only one page long, but its a start.

If you are interested in the meditation aspect of Yoga, here you are:   At The Third Circle Web Site there is a free online meditations manual, located at the following URL addresses: www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5715/   (Main Site) members.iol.co.il/weagle/                  (Israeli Site)                                    —   This manual contains twelve very easy and simple, yet quite powerful meditations, or exercises, or means, or aids, or signposts to any spiritual quest and journey. These twelve meditations are included in The Third Circle (TTC), which is an opening to all-that-is and up to infinity.   As simple as they are, each one of these twelve exercises may facilitate and aid progress at any spiritual stand, from the first steps of interest and curiosity about the spiritual, or an attraction to it, and up to achieving the ultimate, supreme, attainment — Self-realization, or enlightenment.   All the meditations and exercises mentioned in this manual may be practiced by self-work, that is — by following the instructions given here. All the necessary information needed to enable practicing these meditations and exercises is included in the given instructions — there is no need for any external teacher, or guide, in order to be able to practice these meditations. Nevertheless, I’m available to reply by email any question concerning the practice of these meditations that may arise.                                    *** A brief introduction to the twelve meditations: * Relaxation:   A very basic and simple relaxation exercise, yet, quite an effective one. Good to be practiced whenever one may be tensed, and at the beginning of every meditation.                                    — * Praying / asking:   Experience shows praying or asking to be very useful and helpful. Believing in God or not, practicing a particular religion or not, doesn’t make much difference here.   TTC is not a religion, not a part of any religion and it is not connected to any religion. Praying is very useful and helpful, regardless whether praying, or asking — God, or the universe — is done in a religious context or not. Here, in TTC, there is no religious context to praying; that is, praying doesn’t mean practicing a religion — not necessarily.   What counts here is our attitude and behavior, not any dogma or set rules. Yet, it is the individual’s choice whether to pray in a religious context or not. In our experience, praying, or asking, is very useful, regardless to whether it’s being done in a religious context or not. TTC, in the context of prayer, have no recommendation pro or con any religion.   One of the reasons that praying or asking is very helpful is that by praying or asking we direct our attention away from our small self, or ego, to a higher ideal. It serves us in widening our perspective, expanding our boundaries.   Another reason for it being beneficial is that by praying or asking we direct our attention to the desired results and goals. Directing our attention serves the flow of energy to and from the desired result or attainment. This energy flow assists in the actual attainment of our goals.                                    — * Shielding:   It is an energetic and astral grounding and shielding. Good to be practiced in any case, especially when we may feel being attacked, or drained energetically. It is a suggested protection for meditations, aiding in blocking unwanted energies and entities from entering our meditations.   Please bear in mind that in the relative universe nothing is absolute, thus — there is no absolute protection and no absolute shielding. Ultimately, one’s free will and choices are the best possible protection — over time. Nevertheless, this shielding exercise is a recommended practice.   Some choose to practice it as a part of their daily routine, some choose to practice it as the first stage of every meditation, some choose to practice it when feeling a need, and some choose not to practice it at all. It’s up to you.                                    — * Simple Breathing Exercise (Pranayama):   Prana is the Sanskrit word for the universal life force — the force that sustains life in all living creatures. In Chinese, this universal life force is called Ki, or Chi, hence, Tai-Chi.   Pranayama – Yogi breathing exercises – is one of the eight limbs of Yoga – for the value and benefit of Pranayama is paramount. It is extremely relaxing, invigorating — it purifies the body, mind, soul and spirit.   This Simple Breathing Exercise (Pranayama) is indeed very simple and easy to practice, yet, it is highly valuable. This simple Pranayama may be practiced by itself and it may serve as an excellent preamble to any meditation and spiritual exercise.                                    — * Body-Feeling Meditation:   At times, if you may feel very tired, moody, tensed, agitated, low energies, irritated, impatient, drained out, spaced out, disconnected, the mind is not very clear, etc — it is recommended to elevate your feeling, mood or energies with the Body-Feeling Meditation.   This meditation is very effective in releasing stress and strain from our nervous system and physical body. By releasing stress and strain from the physical body and nervous system, simultaneously we are releasing mental, psychological and spiritual stress and blocks, opening our energy channels to a better flow, enabling a clearer mind and consciousness.   Another benefit of this meditation is increasing our awareness to our body.   This meditation can be practiced, upon getting acquainted with it, anytime anyplace, while walking, talking, driving etc.                                    — * The Silence Meditation:   The Silence Meditation, along The Aum Mantra Meditation, are the Jewel-Crest of all spiritual practices. Specifying all their benefits will take many pages.   In brief: they are the most effective and direct means to connect the unbounded ocean of truth and wisdom lying inside the silent chambers of our hearts. They are great aids in connecting our Higher Self and, ultimately, our Supreme Self.   This meditation is relaxing and have numerous beneficial effects on our body and mind, health, consciousness, clarity of thinking, energy level, developing our intuition, widening our perspective and expanding our boundaries.   The Silence Meditation may serve as a springboard to all other spiritual practices and exercises. It is very natural, very easy to practice. It is devoid of any connection to any teaching, tradition, dogma or religion. TTC is an opening, not a teaching.   Connecting the ocean of silence inside gives momentum to all our actions, facilitates and speeds up attaining all goals.   Ultimately, The Silence Meditation is a great aid in attaining Self-realization, or enlightenment — upon aspiring this supreme attainment.                                    — * The Aum Mantra Meditation:   The Aum Mantra Meditation, along The Silence Meditation, are the Jewel-Crest of all spiritual practices. Specifying all their benefits will take many pages.   In brief: they are the most effective and direct means to connect the unbounded ocean of truth and wisdom lying inside the silent chambers of our hearts. They are great aids in connecting our Higher Self and, ultimately, our Supreme Self.   This meditation is relaxing and have numerous beneficial effects on our body and mind, health, consciousness, clarity of thinking, energy level, developing our intuition, widening our perspective and expanding our boundaries.   The Aum Mantra Meditation may serve as a springboard to all other spiritual practices and exercises. It is very natural, very easy to practice. It is not conflicting with any teaching, tradition, dogma or religion.   Connecting the Supreme Self, or the ocean of inner silence, gives momentum to all our actions, facilitates and speeds up attaining all goals.   Ultimately, The Aum Mantra Meditation is a great aid in attaining Self-realization, or enlightenment — upon aspiring this supreme attainment.                                    — * Healing The Inner Child   Some people don’t get in childhood all the love they deserve and need. At times, children are being wounded emotionally. As we grow and mature, often we carry with us the scars born of the emotional wounds we acquired as little children. Thus, as we go on in life, we often carry with us a hurt and wounded child. Those emotional scars within us, this wounded child in us, affects our psychological makeup as long as the scars and wounds are there. Healing The Inner Child enables us to gain greater emotional and psychological maturity.   The view presented by The Third Circle holds that spiritual growth and human growth are the very same process. Growing as a human being means growing spiritually and true spiritual growth means growing as a human being. Thus, Healing The Inner Child has great value in both our human growth and spiritual evolution.   This is a very simple, yet, extremely powerful exercise, based on guided imagery. It is healing of very deep layers of our psyche, which may remain healed for as long as we live. Healing the inner child may increase your love to yourself and thus increase your love to others — your ability to genuinely love others.   This healing exercise is a very vivid example for the actual power of love in action — it exemplifies how love may actually work.                                    — * Connecting Your Future Self   As we live our

… read more »

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        The book Living Yoga from the editors of the Yoga Journal magazine is an excellent place to to go for a simple overvew of different types of yoga. I particularly like the way it shows how they inter relate. It is available in many bookstores or through the Book & Tape Source at <A HREF="http://www.yogajournal.com/toc/tocframe.html"toc</A         It’s good to go to a teacher if you can, it’s also good to study on your own. I couldn’t recomend a type of yoga for you. I practice hatha myself and I love it.         peace, sandra

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Probably better to go to a teacher. Look for someone who practices what he or she teaches and charges moderately if at all. Read a couple of books, such as (ABSOLUTELY no offense meant) The complete idiot’s guide to Yoga, which is very good, or anything by Yiengar (Light on Yoga) or Vishnu Devananda’s The complete illustrated book of Yoga. Good luck ! Charles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish to start practicising Yoga….but I am unsure of the different types of Yoga there appear to be. Which would you recommend, and is it necessary to go to a teacher or is there stuff on the net – I already found a page entitled an introduction to simple yoga – its only one page long, but its a start.

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Question:

Richard Ottolini feels: | I wonder if this thread can be tied into why marathoners and ultra | runners tend to be middle age.  My hypothesis is that it takes many | years of running for the sugar metabolism to adjust. At least in my | case my 2+ hour runs got better after a couple years. Define middle age? : ) I can’t tell if it’s a metabolism change or coming to peace with myself. There is a certain mental attitude necessary for long distance/times and anger isn’t one of them.  I have seen people disheartened/disappointed but mostly at themselves for not eating/drinking/training enough. Just a few cents worth. | So the optimisstic conclusion is that it will get better with time. The important things get better with time. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

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I get cranky or stroppy as we say in England after a long run but only after I have had a couple of glasses of red wine in the evening. Does this point to the liver?:) You are definitely not past it at 40-plus for the marathon. Although some recent world class marathon results suggest that youth is an advantage, it has always been conventional wisdom in my experience that mid to late thirties is the peak. In the 1980s, Carlos Lopes won the Olympic or World Championship marathon at age 39, I think, and broke the world best marathon time at 40. Correct me if I’m wrong. All that red wine affects the memory too. The point is that you are at or near your marathon peak around the age of 40. I could well imagine that an individual who came to running late in life and who looked after him or herself could achieve better performances after age 40 than before as experience more than compensates for any physical deterioration. Seriously, the fact that you are worried about this suggests you are, like most runners, a driven personality. People who push themselves get tired and emotional. I remember before the London Marathon in 1984 seeing a runner meditating in a simple yoga position. I am trying to relax in my own time before, during and after running without the aid of alcohol. If you are asking whether it’s worth trying for a good marathon time after the age of 40, the answer is yes, but only if you enjoy the process of pursuing the goal. Hope this helps. — Duncan Hopwood

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| Sorry, no halo yet Doug.  I’m going to venture a guess that your lethargic and | mellow mood is the result of low blood sugar whereas the short temper moods If you saw what I eat and drink on my long runs, it is not low blood sugar. I’m still leaning toward an angel.   | are the result of some other mechanism, such as lowered blood ph.  Pure | speculation on my part, however. As yourself, I can only speculate. However, during the winter I train with  anywhere from 4  to 12 people in prep for Boston. I have yet to see any of these people have a bad thought must less temper. Maybe it’s the fact I insist on staking out Gatorade to keep the pump primed. I know, anecdotal, but true. You may have a point that low sugar and how it efects different people in different ways. Have you seen my cute wings? They are precious. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

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I JUST GOT DONE WITH MY RUN AND I HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND READ THIS

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I wonder if this thread can be tied into why marathoners and ultra runners tend to be middle age.  My hypothesis is that it takes many years of running for the sugar metabolism to adjust. At least in my case my 2+ hour runs got better after a couple years. A second hypothesis is that in US medical culture, the liver is an overlooked organ with regards to sugar metabolism. (The French think about it more.) The liver hasd an amazing capacity to store sugar and to release hormones for sugar regulation.  It also can grow a bit to meet demands, but takes months to do so. So the optimisstic conclusion is that it will get better with time.

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 A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired.  Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. Gee, I must be the exception to the rule. When I get tired I get lethargic and mellow. Maybe I have angelic qualities – where’s my halo? Sounds more related to psychology then physiology.  Unless, temper   maps to a muscle group. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (SNIP)….. I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are finding that, far from slowing down as you get older, the fear of approaching senility is forcing you on to faster times and a greater commitment to staying as fit and as healty as humanly possible. I s’pose I need confirmation that there ARE other people my age out there who are coping with the 10 k runs, half marathons etc. and that I am not alone. What I REALLY want to know is – if I put it on the line for 12 months as opposed to my usual half-arsed training, am I going to reap major benefits or is it a bit too late? Deek Castella said in one of his books – "If you can complete a sub-3 hour marathon, then you are not a jogger. You are not a runner. You can call yourself an athlete." Now THAT’S worth thinking about. Where the hell is my training diary…

I finally got serious about doing interval training at age 39.  Always a sub-40 10K’er, I set PR’s at 5K, 10K, 1/2 marathon and marathon at age 42.  Then my foot blew out (ligament rupture).  Yes, life can be great after 40, but don’t train like a 30-year-old.  Hold a lot of respect for recovery time.   Mike (an athlete)

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(SNIP)….. I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are finding that, far from slowing down as you get older, the fear of approaching senility is forcing you on to faster times and a greater commitment to staying as fit and as healty as humanly possible. I s’pose I need

I guess the answer to this would depend on how much running you did before turning forty.  I trained very hard for several years, including interval sessions of up to 20×400, 20-milers, etc., and I ran hard in races up to the marathon.  In the past few years, I’ve seen a lot of my old training partners drop _permanently_ because of injury–especially those who did crazing things like 30+ mile training runs.  The best woman runner I know has had chronic fatigue for two years, and says she never wants to run for more that 20 minutes again.  And I have had some nagging injuries, some of which were pretty scary. I’ve come to realize that what I really love is running my long run on Sunday and starting my weekdays with a good 4-6 mile run.  I may race again, but I will not jeopardize my running future for it. — Mississippi College                                            (601)925-5638 Clinton, MS  39058

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  Whenever I do a long-ish run – and for me that’s about 16-18 km upwards –   and I’ve put some effort into it, then far from being deliciously relaxed   and comfortably knackered when I finish, I find that I get really crabby   and short tempered with the rest of the family.   .. but I know as soon as I get home I’m into Mr. Hyde mode and the family   avoid me like the plague for an hour or so. From one going on 42 (hmm .. that rings a bell), 14 years since my first marathon and about a year since my most recent (but not last) – all but one sub 3hrs, it’s a matter of perspective. My personal opinion is that running beyond a particular distance/time alters you (apart from the physical exertion). I strive to find the time for a 14k "lunch" run (I work late to compensate ) and on occasions manage to fit in 18k.  It may be the terrain (parkland and golf course) which puts me into a really blissful, peaceful (back to nature .. urrrgh .. this is getting silly) mood afterwards and can understand people not coping with those who intrude into the "afterglow".  The extended time may also cause you to appreciate the solitude of a run (I’m not a herd animal, I "athlete" by myself).  It may take a little getting used to, but learn to take the intrusions in your stride. Another perspective on the apparent problem is that people can’t handle your quiet, serene post-run behaviour and will attempt to shake you out of it, which in itself can be annoying. Yes, the afterglow can alter your standing with others.  "Normal" people can quickly get infuriated with the Chesire Cat. Paul Menon (Still revelling in the afterglow of a 25k "athlete" earlier this week)

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A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. Ok then, why does being tired give you a bad temper?

It’s not so much being tired that can make someone cranky, it’s the deep tiredness that comes from overtraining that does it.  It’s becuase your bodu is run down, out of fuel, and needs to rest.

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A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. Gee, I must be the exception to the rule. When I get tired I get lethargic and mellow. Maybe I have angelic qualities – where’s my halo? Sounds more related to psychology then physiology.  Unless, temper   maps to a muscle group.

Sorry, no halo yet Doug.  I’m going to venture a guess that your lethargic and mellow mood is the result of low blood sugar whereas the short temper moods are the result of some other mechanism, such as lowered blood ph.  Pure speculation on my part, however. Jim

Response:

A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out.

Ok then, why does being tired give you a bad temper? Jim

Response:

        I’ll second on the fatigue theory.  When I have an easy run and don’t feel fatigued, I’m happy.  It’s generally a great stress reliever form me.  However, when I have an extra long or fast run, I tend to feel fatigued and get short with my family.         Also, I bet you notice you get short with your family and not so much with your friends and co-workers.  Now that’s the "family always gets the worst of you" theory I’m working on.                g / Oracle Networking Support / guru dude, joe SQL*Net, joe SQL*Toes / / Oracle RDBMS Support      / process evangelist                   / /     Of course…                                                 / /                 My opinions are my own                           / /         and do not reflect those of my employer…               / /          …nor anyone else for that matter…                   /

Response:

Whenever I do a long-ish run – and for me that’s about 16-18 km upwards – and I’ve put some effort into it, then far from being deliciously relaxed and comfortably knackered when I finish, I find that I get really crabby and short tempered with the rest of the family.

The same holds true of doing very short fast intervals.  So it’s not just long runs, it’s fatigue in general.  We get crabby from fatigue like little kids get crabby close to bed time, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the physiology is the same.  As for the exact process, you’ve got me.  Lydiard blamed it on lowered blood ph from lactic acid, but this doesn’t explain the effects of long aerobic runs. Jim

Response:

Whenever I do a long-ish run – and for me that’s about 16-18 km upwards – and I’ve put some effort into it, then far from being deliciously relaxed and comfortably knackered when I finish, I find that I get really crabby and short tempered with the rest of the family. Tonight was a good example. I ran from work, which is about 2 klicks north of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, over the harbour and into the city to a point where the annual City to Surf run starts. I then ran the course, which finishes at Bondi – where I live. Now, I didn’t go flat out, but I put some effort into it and finished the 14 km course in 67 mins. (about 9 mins. off my P.B.). I felt pretty good at the end – no injuries and I was happy with the time (another 8 months to get it down to sub 56!) but I know as soon as I get home I’m into Mr. Hyde mode and the family avoid me like the plague for an hour or so. Is this a case of low blood sugar levels? I understand that if you use a carbo deletion/carbo loading technique in the week before a marathon, you can get pretty short tempered when on the high protein phase for the same reason. Is this what’s happening to me or am I just a miserable old sod… I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are finding that, far from slowing down as you get older, the fear of approaching senility is forcing you on to faster times and a greater commitment to staying as fit and as healty as humanly possible. I s’pose I need confirmation that there ARE other people my age out there who are coping with the 10 k runs, half marathons etc. and that I am not alone. What I REALLY want to know is – if I put it on the line for 12 months as opposed to my usual half-arsed training, am I going to reap major benefits or is it a bit too late? Deek Castella said in one of his books – "If you can complete a sub-3 hour marathon, then you are not a jogger. You are not a runner. You can call yourself an athlete." Now THAT’S worth thinking about. Where the hell is my training diary…

Response:

A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. "Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor are reduced to insignificance."                                                                                              —-General Patton

Response:

I suspect it is sugar metabolism. I had the problem the first year of long runs, but it gradually got better.  Probably the liver and muscles improved at doling out sugar.

Response:

I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are

Not there yet, but being on the wrong side of 35 can also act as a strong stimulus to disprove the naysayers and start running long and fast. I s’pose I need confirmation that there ARE other people my age out there who are coping with the 10 k runs, half marathons etc. and that I am not alone.

There are plenty. Don’t know what things are like in Australia, but in the U.K., France, and Europe, you’ll find some very committed adn competitive veterans. From what I read the same thing goes for the U.S. At the top level there are things like European Road Running championship, but more mundanely you should see the veteran event for the final of the Cross-country championship for my Department in France. These people are still training and racing as hard as the youngsters. Although not directly applicable to ‘ordinary’ runners, look at two international level British athletes: Linford Christie still qualified for the Olympic 100m finals at age 36, Paul Evans just won the Chicago marathon at 35 in 2:08 something. So just what constitutes being too old? Don’t listen to what people say can or cannot be done (especially from non-runners), just train as well and as effectively as you can and see what happens. What I REALLY want to know is – if I put it on the line for 12 months as opposed to my usual half-arsed training, am I going to reap major benefits or is it a bit too late?

There’s only one way you’ll know for sure… marathon, then you are not a jogger. You are not a runner. You can call yourself an athlete."

Not sure that it’s necessary to go for a marathon to call yourself an  "(and I ran 3:53 for 1500 at age 42 this year)" That really must be an inspiration for any runner who thinks being over 40 signals the end of any athletic prowess.   Miles

Response:

Question:

Richard Ottolini feels: | I wonder if this thread can be tied into why marathoners and ultra | runners tend to be middle age.  My hypothesis is that it takes many | years of running for the sugar metabolism to adjust. At least in my | case my 2+ hour runs got better after a couple years. Define middle age? : ) I can’t tell if it’s a metabolism change or coming to peace with myself. There is a certain mental attitude necessary for long distance/times and anger isn’t one of them.  I have seen people disheartened/disappointed but mostly at themselves for not eating/drinking/training enough. Just a few cents worth. | So the optimisstic conclusion is that it will get better with time. The important things get better with time. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

Response:

I get cranky or stroppy as we say in England after a long run but only after I have had a couple of glasses of red wine in the evening. Does this point to the liver?:) You are definitely not past it at 40-plus for the marathon. Although some recent world class marathon results suggest that youth is an advantage, it has always been conventional wisdom in my experience that mid to late thirties is the peak. In the 1980s, Carlos Lopes won the Olympic or World Championship marathon at age 39, I think, and broke the world best marathon time at 40. Correct me if I’m wrong. All that red wine affects the memory too. The point is that you are at or near your marathon peak around the age of 40. I could well imagine that an individual who came to running late in life and who looked after him or herself could achieve better performances after age 40 than before as experience more than compensates for any physical deterioration. Seriously, the fact that you are worried about this suggests you are, like most runners, a driven personality. People who push themselves get tired and emotional. I remember before the London Marathon in 1984 seeing a runner meditating in a simple yoga position. I am trying to relax in my own time before, during and after running without the aid of alcohol. If you are asking whether it’s worth trying for a good marathon time after the age of 40, the answer is yes, but only if you enjoy the process of pursuing the goal. Hope this helps. — Duncan Hopwood

Response:

I JUST GOT DONE WITH MY RUN AND I HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND READ THIS

Response:

I wonder if this thread can be tied into why marathoners and ultra runners tend to be middle age.  My hypothesis is that it takes many years of running for the sugar metabolism to adjust. At least in my case my 2+ hour runs got better after a couple years. A second hypothesis is that in US medical culture, the liver is an overlooked organ with regards to sugar metabolism. (The French think about it more.) The liver hasd an amazing capacity to store sugar and to release hormones for sugar regulation.  It also can grow a bit to meet demands, but takes months to do so. So the optimisstic conclusion is that it will get better with time.

Response:

A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. Ok then, why does being tired give you a bad temper?

It’s not so much being tired that can make someone cranky, it’s the deep tiredness that comes from overtraining that does it.  It’s becuase your bodu is run down, out of fuel, and needs to rest.

Response:

| Sorry, no halo yet Doug.  I’m going to venture a guess that your lethargic and | mellow mood is the result of low blood sugar whereas the short temper moods If you saw what I eat and drink on my long runs, it is not low blood sugar. I’m still leaning toward an angel.   | are the result of some other mechanism, such as lowered blood ph.  Pure | speculation on my part, however. As yourself, I can only speculate. However, during the winter I train with  anywhere from 4  to 12 people in prep for Boston. I have yet to see any of these people have a bad thought must less temper. Maybe it’s the fact I insist on staking out Gatorade to keep the pump primed. I know, anecdotal, but true. You may have a point that low sugar and how it efects different people in different ways. Have you seen my cute wings? They are precious. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

Response:

 A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired.  Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. Gee, I must be the exception to the rule. When I get tired I get lethargic and mellow. Maybe I have angelic qualities – where’s my halo? Sounds more related to psychology then physiology.  Unless, temper   maps to a muscle group. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

Response:

A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. Gee, I must be the exception to the rule. When I get tired I get lethargic and mellow. Maybe I have angelic qualities – where’s my halo? Sounds more related to psychology then physiology.  Unless, temper   maps to a muscle group.

Sorry, no halo yet Doug.  I’m going to venture a guess that your lethargic and mellow mood is the result of low blood sugar whereas the short temper moods are the result of some other mechanism, such as lowered blood ph.  Pure speculation on my part, however. Jim

Response:

A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out.

Ok then, why does being tired give you a bad temper? Jim

Response:

        I’ll second on the fatigue theory.  When I have an easy run and don’t feel fatigued, I’m happy.  It’s generally a great stress reliever form me.  However, when I have an extra long or fast run, I tend to feel fatigued and get short with my family.         Also, I bet you notice you get short with your family and not so much with your friends and co-workers.  Now that’s the "family always gets the worst of you" theory I’m working on.                g / Oracle Networking Support / guru dude, joe SQL*Net, joe SQL*Toes / / Oracle RDBMS Support      / process evangelist                   / /     Of course…                                                 / /                 My opinions are my own                           / /         and do not reflect those of my employer…               / /          …nor anyone else for that matter…                   /

Response:

  Whenever I do a long-ish run – and for me that’s about 16-18 km upwards –   and I’ve put some effort into it, then far from being deliciously relaxed   and comfortably knackered when I finish, I find that I get really crabby   and short tempered with the rest of the family.   .. but I know as soon as I get home I’m into Mr. Hyde mode and the family   avoid me like the plague for an hour or so. From one going on 42 (hmm .. that rings a bell), 14 years since my first marathon and about a year since my most recent (but not last) – all but one sub 3hrs, it’s a matter of perspective. My personal opinion is that running beyond a particular distance/time alters you (apart from the physical exertion). I strive to find the time for a 14k "lunch" run (I work late to compensate ) and on occasions manage to fit in 18k.  It may be the terrain (parkland and golf course) which puts me into a really blissful, peaceful (back to nature .. urrrgh .. this is getting silly) mood afterwards and can understand people not coping with those who intrude into the "afterglow".  The extended time may also cause you to appreciate the solitude of a run (I’m not a herd animal, I "athlete" by myself).  It may take a little getting used to, but learn to take the intrusions in your stride. Another perspective on the apparent problem is that people can’t handle your quiet, serene post-run behaviour and will attempt to shake you out of it, which in itself can be annoying. Yes, the afterglow can alter your standing with others.  "Normal" people can quickly get infuriated with the Chesire Cat. Paul Menon (Still revelling in the afterglow of a 25k "athlete" earlier this week)

Response:

A long run gives you a bad temper because you are very tired. Doesn’t take a physiology degree to figure this one out. "Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor are reduced to insignificance."                                                                                              —-General Patton

Response:

(SNIP)….. I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are finding that, far from slowing down as you get older, the fear of approaching senility is forcing you on to faster times and a greater commitment to staying as fit and as healty as humanly possible. I s’pose I need

I guess the answer to this would depend on how much running you did before turning forty.  I trained very hard for several years, including interval sessions of up to 20×400, 20-milers, etc., and I ran hard in races up to the marathon.  In the past few years, I’ve seen a lot of my old training partners drop _permanently_ because of injury–especially those who did crazing things like 30+ mile training runs.  The best woman runner I know has had chronic fatigue for two years, and says she never wants to run for more that 20 minutes again.  And I have had some nagging injuries, some of which were pretty scary. I’ve come to realize that what I really love is running my long run on Sunday and starting my weekdays with a good 4-6 mile run.  I may race again, but I will not jeopardize my running future for it. — Mississippi College                                            (601)925-5638 Clinton, MS  39058

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (SNIP)….. I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are finding that, far from slowing down as you get older, the fear of approaching senility is forcing you on to faster times and a greater commitment to staying as fit and as healty as humanly possible. I s’pose I need confirmation that there ARE other people my age out there who are coping with the 10 k runs, half marathons etc. and that I am not alone. What I REALLY want to know is – if I put it on the line for 12 months as opposed to my usual half-arsed training, am I going to reap major benefits or is it a bit too late? Deek Castella said in one of his books – "If you can complete a sub-3 hour marathon, then you are not a jogger. You are not a runner. You can call yourself an athlete." Now THAT’S worth thinking about. Where the hell is my training diary…

I finally got serious about doing interval training at age 39.  Always a sub-40 10K’er, I set PR’s at 5K, 10K, 1/2 marathon and marathon at age 42.  Then my foot blew out (ligament rupture).  Yes, life can be great after 40, but don’t train like a 30-year-old.  Hold a lot of respect for recovery time.   Mike (an athlete)

Response:

I suspect it is sugar metabolism. I had the problem the first year of long runs, but it gradually got better.  Probably the liver and muscles improved at doling out sugar.

Response:

Whenever I do a long-ish run – and for me that’s about 16-18 km upwards – and I’ve put some effort into it, then far from being deliciously relaxed and comfortably knackered when I finish, I find that I get really crabby and short tempered with the rest of the family.

The same holds true of doing very short fast intervals.  So it’s not just long runs, it’s fatigue in general.  We get crabby from fatigue like little kids get crabby close to bed time, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the physiology is the same.  As for the exact process, you’ve got me.  Lydiard blamed it on lowered blood ph from lactic acid, but this doesn’t explain the effects of long aerobic runs. Jim

Response:

I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are

Not there yet, but being on the wrong side of 35 can also act as a strong stimulus to disprove the naysayers and start running long and fast. I s’pose I need confirmation that there ARE other people my age out there who are coping with the 10 k runs, half marathons etc. and that I am not alone.

There are plenty. Don’t know what things are like in Australia, but in the U.K., France, and Europe, you’ll find some very committed adn competitive veterans. From what I read the same thing goes for the U.S. At the top level there are things like European Road Running championship, but more mundanely you should see the veteran event for the final of the Cross-country championship for my Department in France. These people are still training and racing as hard as the youngsters. Although not directly applicable to ‘ordinary’ runners, look at two international level British athletes: Linford Christie still qualified for the Olympic 100m finals at age 36, Paul Evans just won the Chicago marathon at 35 in 2:08 something. So just what constitutes being too old? Don’t listen to what people say can or cannot be done (especially from non-runners), just train as well and as effectively as you can and see what happens. What I REALLY want to know is – if I put it on the line for 12 months as opposed to my usual half-arsed training, am I going to reap major benefits or is it a bit too late?

There’s only one way you’ll know for sure… marathon, then you are not a jogger. You are not a runner. You can call yourself an athlete."

Not sure that it’s necessary to go for a marathon to call yourself an  "(and I ran 3:53 for 1500 at age 42 this year)" That really must be an inspiration for any runner who thinks being over 40 signals the end of any athletic prowess.   Miles

Response:

Whenever I do a long-ish run – and for me that’s about 16-18 km upwards – and I’ve put some effort into it, then far from being deliciously relaxed and comfortably knackered when I finish, I find that I get really crabby and short tempered with the rest of the family. Tonight was a good example. I ran from work, which is about 2 klicks north of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, over the harbour and into the city to a point where the annual City to Surf run starts. I then ran the course, which finishes at Bondi – where I live. Now, I didn’t go flat out, but I put some effort into it and finished the 14 km course in 67 mins. (about 9 mins. off my P.B.). I felt pretty good at the end – no injuries and I was happy with the time (another 8 months to get it down to sub 56!) but I know as soon as I get home I’m into Mr. Hyde mode and the family avoid me like the plague for an hour or so. Is this a case of low blood sugar levels? I understand that if you use a carbo deletion/carbo loading technique in the week before a marathon, you can get pretty short tempered when on the high protein phase for the same reason. Is this what’s happening to me or am I just a miserable old sod… I’d also like to hear from any of you 40-something runners who are finding that, far from slowing down as you get older, the fear of approaching senility is forcing you on to faster times and a greater commitment to staying as fit and as healty as humanly possible. I s’pose I need confirmation that there ARE other people my age out there who are coping with the 10 k runs, half marathons etc. and that I am not alone. What I REALLY want to know is – if I put it on the line for 12 months as opposed to my usual half-arsed training, am I going to reap major benefits or is it a bit too late? Deek Castella said in one of his books – "If you can complete a sub-3 hour marathon, then you are not a jogger. You are not a runner. You can call yourself an athlete." Now THAT’S worth thinking about. Where the hell is my training diary…

Response:

Question:

George, Has your wife undergone a hysterectomy? Nora — Nora Weisberg-Coffey CompuServe 74053,2441

Response:

chris adlard wrote:

George Wells (gewe…@ozemail.com.au) wrote: : My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches : in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes : to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was : bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some : relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has : anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions : for getting relief? : Gentle stretching exercises help, especially before bed. Try some of the simple yoga exercises, or swimming is particularly good. Chris

Exercise is an excellent suggestion… Yoga will be especially helpful if you find a teacher who has an understanding of body alignment and kinesiology; an Iyengar-trained teacher would be a good bet. Habits of hyperextending the knees and throwing the hips forward for several decades can produce the kind of discomfort George describes. Medical advice is useful; docs can identify mineral deficiencies, diseases, etc. that may be causing the problem. Good luck!

Response:

In article <4pta3q$…@news.wco.com

Della Noche <dno…@mail.wco.com

writes: Hi, Susan O!  What do you think of Naprosin (sp?)?  Now OTC as Alleve, I believe.  I’ve found it to be unpredictable – took it for a backache and it didn’t help with my back but cleared up the tubes in my inner ears – I knew I had a cold but I hadn’t realized how much of a problem I was having with my ears till the Naprosin cleared up what I guess was an inflammation.  I found it not helpful for bursitis in my shoulder but great for my wrists.  So I’m confused about it.  Does it help your hip? Thanks, dn

Della – I haven’t tried Alleve yet.  Due to a dislocated shoulder I incurred a year ago and the inflammation in the joint as well as pain, I started taking 2 x 200mg of generic Ibuprofen on the recommendation of a pharmacist.  I take 2 x 500mg of generic Tylenol (acetaminophen) for heavy duty pain due to light sensitive headaches or sinus headaches.  The Ibuprofen really relieves the pain quickly.  Because of its anti-inflammatory abilities, it also goes to the source of the joint or muscle pain so that I don’t have to keep using it for long periods of time.  It is supposed to do a number on the lining of the stomach but so far I have been fortunate in that I have had no stomach upsets. I guess what I’m trying to say is that different pain killers work in different ways, at least for me.  Which class of pain killers does Alleve fall into – acetaminophen or acetylsalicylic acid based or another? Susan O. May the Goddess in me recognize the Goddess in you.                                   – Jean Shiboda Bolen

Response:

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Patricia Ziliani wrote:

It is true that these symtpoms can be exacerbated by estrogen deficiency. The ligaments tend to tighten and therefore the body stiffens when estrogen is lacking.

Patricia I’d like to know more about ligament tightening and low estrogen and would appreciate if you can head me in the right direction. Many thanks, Keri.

Response:

George Wells (gewe…@ozemail.com.au) wrote:

: My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches : in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes : to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was : bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some : relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has : anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions : for getting relief? : Gentle stretching exercises help, especially before bed. Try some of the simple yoga exercises, or swimming is particularly good. Chris

Response:

In article <, George Wells (gewe…@ozemail.com.au) writes: My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions for getting relief?

I missed your earlier post, George so I’ve copied it from someone else’s.  I have bursitis in my right hip so I know how painful this is.  Mine is due to an accident 10 to 12 years ago when a horse knocked me down on my side on cement.  The pain that I feel through the years is not menopausal, therefore, in origin.  Could this be the case with your wife?  Could she have had a previous injury? The recommendations given by the posts are excellent.  I exercise a lot.  I find that when I ride in a car or sit for long periods of time watching TV, this will make the pain worse.  When I do ache so that I cannot sleep, I take Ibuprofen which is an anti inflamatory pain killer that can do a number on the stomach lining like aspirin does so should not be taken often. Susan O. May the Goddess in me recognize the Goddess in you.                                   – Jean Shiboda Bolen

Response:

Hi, Susan O!  What do you think of Naprosin (sp?)?  Now OTC as Alleve, I believe.  I’ve found it to be unpredictable – took it for a backache and it didn’t help with my back but cleared up the tubes in my inner ears – I knew I had a cold but I hadn’t realized how much of a problem I was having with my ears till the Naprosin cleared up what I guess was an inflammation.  I found it not helpful for bursitis in my shoulder but great for my wrists.  So I’m confused about it.  Does it help your hip? Thanks, dn m…@hivnet.ubc.ca (Susan O) wrote:

When I do ache so that I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

cannot sleep, I take Ibuprofen which is an anti inflamatory pain killer that can do a number on the stomach lining like aspirin does so should not be taken often. Susan O. May the Goddess in me recognize the Goddess in you.                                  - Jean Shiboda Bolen

Response:

Dear George,  Please dont let your wife get on the merry-go-round  of anti inflammatories – they cure nothing and will make her body more toxic. You are treating the effect and not the cause! Suggest that she  drinks at least 8 glasses of pure water per day. Eat lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, cut out fat from her diet. Take Evening Primrose Oil capules( 3 x 1000mgms per day) 1 with each meal. This is an anti inflammatory. If she is in pain then celery tablets will also help. It is true that these symtpoms can be exacerbated by estrogen deficiency. The ligaments tend to tighten and therefore the body stiffens when estrogen is lacking. However if your wife  has no other worrying menopausal symptoms it would be a shame to start HRT ahead of time. Aching hips are very common in menopausal women. The best answer is regular remedial massage, a good healthy diet & regular exercise both weight bearing and stretching. This will keep, the joints mobile and hopefully free of toxicity. A good balanced diet free of chemical additives is vitally important as we age. Both of you would benefit from this. Patricia Ziliani Mt. Hunter NSW Australia In article <

, George

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wells (gewe…@ozemail.com.au) writes:

My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions for getting relief?

Response:

In article <4p6h5t$…@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net.ozemail.com.au

,

   gewe…@ozemail.com.au (George Wells) wrote:

My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions for getting relief?

Has she tried physical therapy?  Might be worth a try. Lois

Response:

gewe…@ozemail.com.au (George Wells) wrote:

My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions for getting relief?

  George,     Natural progesterone has helped women with aching joints. It comes in a capsule or cream. Women’s International Pharmacy sells it. They also have an experienced team of pharmacists who have worked with women undergoing menopause and can answer questions on menopause symptom relief. Their number is 1-800-279-5708. (also, the natural progesterone also helps build bone) Elizabeth

Response:

Hi!  Yes, aching joints are definitely a meno symptom.   That doesn’t eliminate other possibilities but meno is certainly one. I have enjoyed great relief from joint pains with progesterone cream rubbed directly on the problem areas.  Progesterone is wonderful for many reasons but with regard to joints progesterone is a precurseor for our own natural corticosteroids.  It’s has been theorized that the reason joint pain is a common meno symptom is because of the decrease in progesterone. In the US progesterone is available as a cream in health food stores and some pharmacies.   It is absorbed thru the palms as well – Dr. Lee suggests that couples who massage each other with it find both people benefit. dn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gewe…@ozemail.com.au (George Wells) wrote:

My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions for getting relief?

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My wife is approaching 50 and has been suffering from constant aches in her hips and legs for the last 6 months, especially when she goes to bed at night.  She’s had a bone scan from which the diagnosis was bursitis in the hips.  She takes Naprosyn which offers only some relief.  I can’t help thinking it may be a symptom of menopause.  Has anyone experienced this sort of problem and are there any suggestions for getting relief?

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