Question:

So I have my appointment today to see the Psychologist and maybe start on the road to diagnsis. Wrong! I get to the office,  (extra early, as usual),  see that I have no money for co-pay,  go to a convenience store to get some cash, and when I get back to the office I find out that my appointment is not for toady, but for Wednesday! I look in my date book,  there it is in blue-and-white,  monday. How in heaven could I have gotten it THAT wrong? So of course I’m in a pissy mood,  my driving afterwards stinks,  and I run to the grocery store to buy myself a chocolate pastry and sushi, because I deserve it today! It’s beginning to feel like I’m never going to get any relief. (This same therapist cancelled my last appointment with her.) Cori

Response:

Cori,  When my rope frays I tie a knot and hang on for dear life! ….you’re gonna make it ! cgeorge – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Cori,  When my rope frays I tie a knot and hang on for dear life! ….you’re gonna make it ! cgeorge

Thanks!   Cori Everyone wish me luck for wednesday!

Response:

"Thanks!   Cori Everyone wish me luck for wednesday!" Good luck, Cori! Now — I’m not saying you "have" ADHD. I’m not a diagnostician. However, the series of events sound very ADHD-like. Whatever is going on, it’s the year 2000 and odds are things can be better for you. But if you have ADHD, you’ll want that improvement NOW!!!!!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I have my appointment today to see the Psychologist and maybe start on the road to diagnsis. Wrong! I get to the office,  (extra early, as usual),  see that I have no money for co-pay,  go to a convenience store to get some cash, and when I get back to the office I find out that my appointment is not for toady, but for Wednesday! I look in my date book,  there it is in blue-and-white,  monday. How in heaven could I have gotten it THAT wrong? So of course I’m in a pissy mood,  my driving afterwards stinks,  and I run to the grocery store to buy myself a chocolate pastry and sushi, because I deserve it today! It’s beginning to feel like I’m never going to get any relief. (This same therapist cancelled my last appointment with her.) Cori

Hang on and get another psychologist if you can.  Learn yoga or get exercise when you can the extra serotonine should help you out.  Do things that make you feel good like play with children or have fun playing with people.  Take up any sport that isn’t too expensive and looks like fun to you.  Have some fun go to a movie with a friend go to a night club anything that will give you a good time.  Maybe take up sky diving.  Have a blast.  Don’t show up for appointments or if you do be a few minutes late if you keep the same psychologist.   When you leave a frustrating encounter try to clear your head of the whole thing and give the whole situation to god.  Don’t blame the annoying person or yourself just tell god I can’t stand this can you help me relax or let it go while you work on it and tell me what you need from me.  Blame it on something nonliving like if you slam your hand in the door blame it on the door not your hand or yourself since all living things have feelings that will be hurt if someone blames them.  If you blame it on a nonliving thing and lash out at the refridgerator then no living thing will be harmed with your anger.   I think every house should have a punching bag so everyone who lives there can punch something when they are angry instead of kicking the cat or hitting their sister.  I think it would make every house a nicer place to be. — -Katz Heitmann I never went to kindergarden so all I needed to know I learned from Shakespeare You won’t survive long if you live in a Shakespearian tragedy.

Response:

Question:

Very good, and inspiring post ! Glenn (Christian Mystic) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Om Namo Bhagavate Sivanandaya! Om Namo Bhagavate Chidanandaya! Om Namo Bhagavate Krishnanandaya! Namaste! We have uploaded a book by Guru Maharaj Sri Swami Chidanandaji Maharaj titled "Ponder These Truths". This book consists of the early morning meditation talks delivered at Sivananda Ashram. In this book the seeker will find valuable guidance on the spiritual path as well as inspiration and motivation to tenaciously stick to ones spiritual disciplines. This book is at our free books page at: http://www.SivanandaDlshq.org/download/download.htm For this month’s discourse we uploaded a letter written by Guru Maharaj in New York State in August, 1975. The title is "What is Yoga?" In this letter Guru Maharaj explains the place of Yoga in religion. This letter is at: http://www.SivanandaDlshq.org/discourse/apr2000.htm Please note that Sri Swami Ramaswarupanandaji has a new e-mail address. Please send correspondence to Swamiji at the following e-mail address: Yours in the service of Gurudev, Pannir A WESTERNER ENLIGHTENED: "What is Moksha, Swamiji?" asked a foreign seeker. "Moksha is freedom from bondage. It is happiness, absolute bliss and immortal life; it is the attainment of Cosmic Consciousness or Christ-Consciousness," replied the Master. "Please explain to me what is meant by Cosmic Consciousness." "It is a state of consciousness in which you are aware that God is all that there is and more, that He is the link that connects all individuals. God is the Consciousness that illumines the entire creation. Realisation of this Consciousness or God liberates one from bondage to passing phenomena, from the illusion of names and forms. This is the state of God-realisation or Self-realisation." "Is there an individuality after the experience of God-realisation?" "No. The individual soul is completely merged in Cosmic Consciousness. It is like the river entering into the ocean. It loses its identity and you can no more distinguish the waters of one river from that of another after they have entered the ocean. The appearance of the world vanishes in the Reality of God, just as when a lamp is brought, the snake which appeared to be, vanishes in the rope that exists." "Swamiji, please tell us the means of attaining this wonderful state." "You have the Sadhana stated beautifully in the Sermon on the Mount of Lord Jesus. Mind is the dividing wall; it is the main obstacle on the path of Self-realisation. All Sadhanas aim at removing this obstacle. "There are two aspects of the mind–the lower mind and the higher mind. The lower mind is full of lust, greed, hatred, anger and jealousy. The higher mind is free from jealousy, selfishness and other negative traits, and is full of divine qualities like tolerance, love, selflessness and renunciation. You should control the lower mind with the help of the higher mind and then go beyond the mind also. The mind is nothing but a bundle of past impressions and desires. It can be controlled by disciplining the senses. This is achieved by the active cultivation of virtues." "It is very difficult to cultivate these virtues," put in the foreigner. "True, but a positive attitude overcomes a negative one. The virtues will overcome the vices, which are merely negative qualities preventing the cultivation of virtues. Meditate on the divine virtues and their glory. Meditate on God, then you will grow in virtue." "Is meditation so essential, Swamiji?" "Yes, it is the very basis of Sadhana." "What is meditation and how to meditate?" "Meditation is the withdrawal of the rays of the mind scattered over the various objects, and directing the concentrated beam of its light on the Self within in order to commune with God. There are two types of meditation: the first type is with form and the second is meditation on the formless Absolute. In the beginning an aspirant will always find that fixing the mind on a form is essential. "Meditate on the form of Lord Jesus, for instance, and let the mind dwell upon his divine nature, his great virtues and his splendour. You will thereby grow in virtue. "Another method of cultivating virtues is by means of selfless service. It helps you to achieve marvellous control over the mind and the senses. It also enables you to snap the bonds of Karma." "How to free ourselves from Karma, Swamiji?" "As you perform your daily duties feel that you are only a witness of all that goes on around you, that you are a witness even of your own actions. This is called Sakshi Bhav. You should inwardly realise that you are different from the active principle in you. This is the Vedantic method. "There is the other and easier method which is equally potent–the method of Nimitta Bhav. Feel that the Lord alone is the real doer of all actions and that you are an instrument in His hands. Your actions will then be transformed into worship of the Lord and you will not be bound to them. Work without the expectation of any reward and without egoism. Root out the idea of agency and feel that you are not the doer. You will be freed from the shackles of Karma; you will not accumulate new Karma. Allow the past Karma to work out, then you will attain liberation." "Swamiji, is it true that man suffers only on account of his own past Karma? If so, how do you explain the suffering he undergoes on account of natural calamities like earthquakes, riots, etc.?" "It is perfectly true that man suffers on account of his own Karma. And it is the collective past Karma of a number of persons that gathers them together at a certain place where an earthquake works out this collective past Karma, and large numbers of people enter the mouth of Kala at the same time." "Swamiji, I have often come across this word ‘Kala’ in the Indian scriptures. What exactly is meant by it?" "It is the ‘Great Time’ personified. It is the destroyer of name and form. In the Hindu Pantheon there are various gods and goddesses who are members of the Divine Hierarchy. Just as we have our government here, composed of various ministers and officers, the celestials who rule this world too, have their own Deities who control various aspects of the creation, preservation and destruction of the world. "Some are in charge of the various elements like air, fire and water; others are in charge of birth, death, preservation of life and disease. Kala or Yama or Dharmaraja is the Lord of Death. The entire universe is under his control in a way, for when the time comes he brings about the end of the earthly sojourn of all beings. It is only a man of Self-realisation who transcends this Kala and realises his own Self. All Sadhana is meant to help us transcend Kala, to conquer death and thus go beyond time." "In this quest after Truth, Swamiji, I can understand that great saviours like Lord Jesus can help us. But it is not always that such souls are present amidst us. What are we to do, Swamiji?" "Saints are always present in the world. Rogues are also always present. Saviours and dacoits are ever present in this world, for it is a world of dualities. Good and evil are ever present here. Absolute good can be found only in God. You should get the guidance of saints; only they can teach you the divine science. Books will certainly help you; they will put you in tune with the great ones who attained God. When you read the Bible you are in tune with Lord Jesus. When you read the Gita, you are in tune with Lord Krishna. This will also help you. "But just as you cannot learn the art of cooking merely by reading books, similarly, you cannot learn Yoga from books alone. However, you should not wait indefinitely for a teacher to turn up. As soon as the aspiration arises in your heart, you should at once start the practice with the help of some scriptural text that you like, like the Bible." "But, Swamiji, I have heard that it is dangerous to engage in Yoga practices without the aid of an expert Guru." "There is danger at every moment of your daily life. While going up the stairs, if you take a wrong step, you are likely to fall and break your bones; if you are a little absent-minded while crossing a road, you may be run over by a car. The danger of practising Yoga with the help of good texts is in no way greater. If you are sincere, if you use your common sense at every step, you will achieve success. In due course you will find a competent teacher also." "Apart from the Guru, Swamiji, do you think that a mediator is necessary in order to enable us to attain Self-realisation?" "Yes, yes. That is the tutelary Deity, the Ishta Devata. The mind cannot rise beyond itself all at once. The ego will seldom cut its own throat. Your limited consciousness will find it a hard task to realise Cosmic Consciousness. Therefore the name and form of a Deity is chosen to meditate upon. In due time this Deity will manifest Itself before you and do the work of annihilating the ego and the mind, thus enabling you to realise the state of Cosmic Consciousness." "What Name shall we choose, Swamiji?" "Om, This is the Name of the nameless Supreme Being. This is the nearest approximation of the Truth. It is the Mother of all sounds, names and forms. It is Sabda Brahman." "Is it proper during this practice to feel that we are in truth parts of God, Swamiji?" "Not exactly parts, but God Himself in reality. Remember how Lord Jesus also declared, ‘I and my Father are one’. This is the ultimate experience, this is the ultimate truth which all the prophets, seers and sages have proclaimed. "Lord Jesus, Lord Buddha, Guru Nanak,

… read more »

Response:

Om Namo Bhagavate Sivanandaya! Om Namo Bhagavate Chidanandaya! Om Namo Bhagavate Krishnanandaya! Namaste! We have uploaded a book by Guru Maharaj Sri Swami Chidanandaji Maharaj titled "Ponder These Truths". This book consists of the early morning meditation talks delivered at Sivananda Ashram. In this book the seeker will find valuable guidance on the spiritual path as well as inspiration and motivation to tenaciously stick to ones spiritual disciplines. This book is at our free books page at: http://www.SivanandaDlshq.org/download/download.htm For this month’s discourse we uploaded a letter written by Guru Maharaj in New York State in August, 1975. The title is "What is Yoga?" In this letter Guru Maharaj explains the place of Yoga in religion. This letter is at: http://www.SivanandaDlshq.org/discourse/apr2000.htm Please note that Sri Swami Ramaswarupanandaji has a new e-mail address. Please send correspondence to Swamiji at the following e-mail address: Yours in the service of Gurudev, Pannir A WESTERNER ENLIGHTENED: "What is Moksha, Swamiji?" asked a foreign seeker. "Moksha is freedom from bondage. It is happiness, absolute bliss and immortal life; it is the attainment of Cosmic Consciousness or Christ-Consciousness," replied the Master. "Please explain to me what is meant by Cosmic Consciousness." "It is a state of consciousness in which you are aware that God is all that there is and more, that He is the link that connects all individuals. God is the Consciousness that illumines the entire creation. Realisation of this Consciousness or God liberates one from bondage to passing phenomena, from the illusion of names and forms. This is the state of God-realisation or Self-realisation." "Is there an individuality after the experience of God-realisation?" "No. The individual soul is completely merged in Cosmic Consciousness. It is like the river entering into the ocean. It loses its identity and you can no more distinguish the waters of one river from that of another after they have entered the ocean. The appearance of the world vanishes in the Reality of God, just as when a lamp is brought, the snake which appeared to be, vanishes in the rope that exists." "Swamiji, please tell us the means of attaining this wonderful state." "You have the Sadhana stated beautifully in the Sermon on the Mount of Lord Jesus. Mind is the dividing wall; it is the main obstacle on the path of Self-realisation. All Sadhanas aim at removing this obstacle. "There are two aspects of the mind–the lower mind and the higher mind. The lower mind is full of lust, greed, hatred, anger and jealousy. The higher mind is free from jealousy, selfishness and other negative traits, and is full of divine qualities like tolerance, love, selflessness and renunciation. You should control the lower mind with the help of the higher mind and then go beyond the mind also. The mind is nothing but a bundle of past impressions and desires. It can be controlled by disciplining the senses. This is achieved by the active cultivation of virtues." "It is very difficult to cultivate these virtues," put in the foreigner. "True, but a positive attitude overcomes a negative one. The virtues will overcome the vices, which are merely negative qualities preventing the cultivation of virtues. Meditate on the divine virtues and their glory. Meditate on God, then you will grow in virtue." "Is meditation so essential, Swamiji?" "Yes, it is the very basis of Sadhana." "What is meditation and how to meditate?" "Meditation is the withdrawal of the rays of the mind scattered over the various objects, and directing the concentrated beam of its light on the Self within in order to commune with God. There are two types of meditation: the first type is with form and the second is meditation on the formless Absolute. In the beginning an aspirant will always find that fixing the mind on a form is essential. "Meditate on the form of Lord Jesus, for instance, and let the mind dwell upon his divine nature, his great virtues and his splendour. You will thereby grow in virtue. "Another method of cultivating virtues is by means of selfless service. It helps you to achieve marvellous control over the mind and the senses. It also enables you to snap the bonds of Karma." "How to free ourselves from Karma, Swamiji?" "As you perform your daily duties feel that you are only a witness of all that goes on around you, that you are a witness even of your own actions. This is called Sakshi Bhav. You should inwardly realise that you are different from the active principle in you. This is the Vedantic method. "There is the other and easier method which is equally potent–the method of Nimitta Bhav. Feel that the Lord alone is the real doer of all actions and that you are an instrument in His hands. Your actions will then be transformed into worship of the Lord and you will not be bound to them. Work without the expectation of any reward and without egoism. Root out the idea of agency and feel that you are not the doer. You will be freed from the shackles of Karma; you will not accumulate new Karma. Allow the past Karma to work out, then you will attain liberation." "Swamiji, is it true that man suffers only on account of his own past Karma? If so, how do you explain the suffering he undergoes on account of natural calamities like earthquakes, riots, etc.?" "It is perfectly true that man suffers on account of his own Karma. And it is the collective past Karma of a number of persons that gathers them together at a certain place where an earthquake works out this collective past Karma, and large numbers of people enter the mouth of Kala at the same time." "Swamiji, I have often come across this word ‘Kala’ in the Indian scriptures. What exactly is meant by it?" "It is the ‘Great Time’ personified. It is the destroyer of name and form. In the Hindu Pantheon there are various gods and goddesses who are members of the Divine Hierarchy. Just as we have our government here, composed of various ministers and officers, the celestials who rule this world too, have their own Deities who control various aspects of the creation, preservation and destruction of the world. "Some are in charge of the various elements like air, fire and water; others are in charge of birth, death, preservation of life and disease. Kala or Yama or Dharmaraja is the Lord of Death. The entire universe is under his control in a way, for when the time comes he brings about the end of the earthly sojourn of all beings. It is only a man of Self-realisation who transcends this Kala and realises his own Self. All Sadhana is meant to help us transcend Kala, to conquer death and thus go beyond time." "In this quest after Truth, Swamiji, I can understand that great saviours like Lord Jesus can help us. But it is not always that such souls are present amidst us. What are we to do, Swamiji?" "Saints are always present in the world. Rogues are also always present. Saviours and dacoits are ever present in this world, for it is a world of dualities. Good and evil are ever present here. Absolute good can be found only in God. You should get the guidance of saints; only they can teach you the divine science. Books will certainly help you; they will put you in tune with the great ones who attained God. When you read the Bible you are in tune with Lord Jesus. When you read the Gita, you are in tune with Lord Krishna. This will also help you. "But just as you cannot learn the art of cooking merely by reading books, similarly, you cannot learn Yoga from books alone. However, you should not wait indefinitely for a teacher to turn up. As soon as the aspiration arises in your heart, you should at once start the practice with the help of some scriptural text that you like, like the Bible." "But, Swamiji, I have heard that it is dangerous to engage in Yoga practices without the aid of an expert Guru." "There is danger at every moment of your daily life. While going up the stairs, if you take a wrong step, you are likely to fall and break your bones; if you are a little absent-minded while crossing a road, you may be run over by a car. The danger of practising Yoga with the help of good texts is in no way greater. If you are sincere, if you use your common sense at every step, you will achieve success. In due course you will find a competent teacher also." "Apart from the Guru, Swamiji, do you think that a mediator is necessary in order to enable us to attain Self-realisation?" "Yes, yes. That is the tutelary Deity, the Ishta Devata. The mind cannot rise beyond itself all at once. The ego will seldom cut its own throat. Your limited consciousness will find it a hard task to realise Cosmic Consciousness. Therefore the name and form of a Deity is chosen to meditate upon. In due time this Deity will manifest Itself before you and do the work of annihilating the ego and the mind, thus enabling you to realise the state of Cosmic Consciousness." "What Name shall we choose, Swamiji?" "Om, This is the Name of the nameless Supreme Being. This is the nearest approximation of the Truth. It is the Mother of all sounds, names and forms. It is Sabda Brahman." "Is it proper during this practice to feel that we are in truth parts of God, Swamiji?" "Not exactly parts, but God Himself in reality. Remember how Lord Jesus also declared, ‘I and my Father are one’. This is the ultimate experience, this is the ultimate truth which all the prophets, seers and sages have proclaimed. "Lord Jesus, Lord Buddha, Guru Nanak, Kabir and Prophet Mohammed all delivered the same message in a way suited to the people of the age in which they lived. They all taught that God is one, Truth is one, and that man can realise the Truth by controlling the mind and the senses." "How to control the mind, Swamiji?" The Master suddenly switched on to a little humour! "Take sour curd … read more »

Response:

Question:

You are the light that the moths are drawn to. (Or the dark if everyone in your neighborhood on the sidewalk is a perceived criminal.)

Response:

Hi David, I should probably disqualify myself from responding to you. Sometimes I feel I am often misinterpreted because of my style. If you walk into a doctors office and say. "Hi Doc! I have a problem and I’m here for help!" Well…then he will secretly write down some secret diagnosis and give you a prescription. Meds have side effects. They slow you down. They weaken your sex drive(at least) , they destroy your interest in things. In Schizophrenia there are two types of symptoms. Positive symptoms and Negative symptoms. Positives are things that are added because of the sz, voices, paranoias, dillusions. Negatives are not being interested in things, having no motivation, emotional flatness, things which have been taken away. All meds give you the negative symptoms. All meds make the negative symptoms WORSE, or create them. And it takes time for the negative symptoms to pass. Well….I would cut off my left nut and throw it at President Bush if someone could have explained this to me in the beginning. I would far rather have my various entities and voices and be motivated in life then live in this constant slogging through sand, breathing heavy for each step. Duwawa said it. She’s right on in her reply. LEARN yoga, don’t just go to a class once or twice and dismiss it. Learn yoga and that helps immensely. It did me. Way before the Psyche docs poisoned my mind. LAST RESORT….use the docs. Anxiety and self consciousness are typical of being your age. Sure you know goons in school, but sensitive guys going through adolescense experiance what you are experiancing. Damo "David Hoy" <david.ho…@ntlworld.com

wrote in message

news:L3wLc.175$sx5.87@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net… Hi , I am 17 years old , I think I have a problem, today I heard something about schizophrenia , I looked it up , and its something like what im having now . I hate it. Heres things straight. – Im paranoid when im out , Im always worrying people are looking at me in cars. Just walking down the street I can imagine people sitting in there house watching me go by. I find it hard walking just me down the street are where ever im going , I seem to be ok when im with my freinds as talking socializing takes my mind off it . I feel like im loosing my mind sometimes , i really do . I dont know if this is just bad paranoia , or this condidtion. I need help . Im scared to say to family or a doctor cus it is such a weird thing eg condition and I dont want to tell any one like freinds or family because I think they will think im a complete weirdo. But I know im feeling eally alone , desperate. And want help on this. Can someone shed some light ? Thanks alot http://community.webtv.net/damodara/MystoryasIseeit

Response:

"David Hoy" <david.ho…@ntlworld.com

wrote in message

news:L3wLc.175$sx5.87@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi , I am 17 years old , I think I have a problem, today I heard something about schizophrenia , I looked it up , and its something like what im

having

now .  I hate it.  Heres things straight. – Im paranoid when im out , Im always worrying people are looking at me in cars. Just walking down the street I can imagine people sitting in there house watching me go by. I find it hard walking just me down the street are where ever im going , I seem to be ok when im with my freinds as talking socializing takes my mind off it . I feel like im loosing my mind sometimes , i really do . I dont know if

this

is just bad paranoia , or this condidtion. I need help . Im scared to say to family or a doctor cus it is such a

weird

thing eg condition and I dont want to tell any one like freinds or family because I think they will think im a complete weirdo. But I know im

feeling

eally alone , desperate. And want help on this. Can someone shed some light ? Thanks alot

I am really glad you felt able to come to this group to ask about this. Do you have a brother or a sister? Sometimes talking to parents can be very difficult. I am 31!!! I would think hard about whether to talk to someone medical about this. But perhaps there is a confidential youth councelling service available? Even then, I would avoid talking about thoughts or feelings, but I would reccomend talking about anything you are sure is real that is definately upsetting you. Failing all that, there are confidential mental health helplines where specially trained people can be of considerable reasurence. As long as you tell them, again, what is upsetting you, rather than what you are thinking and feeling inside. The most terrible loss with schizophrenia is your sense of privacy. Be careful. — sm

Response:

sounds more like a social phobia bordering parinia get yourself some counsoling if that doesint work see a psyciatrist this un seen to will probly progress "David Hoy" <david.ho…@ntlworld.com

wrote in message

news:L3wLc.175$sx5.87@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi , I am 17 years old , I think I have a problem, today I heard something about schizophrenia , I looked it up , and its something like what im

having

now .  I hate it.  Heres things straight. – Im paranoid when im out , Im always worrying people are looking at me in cars. Just walking down the street I can imagine people sitting in there house watching me go by. I find it hard walking just me down the street are where ever im going , I seem to be ok when im with my freinds as talking socializing takes my mind off it . I feel like im loosing my mind sometimes , i really do . I dont know if

this

is just bad paranoia , or this condidtion. I need help . Im scared to say to family or a doctor cus it is such a

weird

thing eg condition and I dont want to tell any one like freinds or family because I think they will think im a complete weirdo. But I know im

feeling

eally alone , desperate. And want help on this. Can someone shed some light ? Thanks alot

Response:

Tell your doctor immediately. Schizophrenia is treatable, if that is your problem. "David Hoy" <david.ho…@ntlworld.com

wrote in message

news:L3wLc.175$sx5.87@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi , I am 17 years old , I think I have a problem, today I heard something about schizophrenia , I looked it up , and its something like what im

having

now .  I hate it.  Heres things straight. – Im paranoid when im out , Im always worrying people are looking at me in cars. Just walking down the street I can imagine people sitting in there house watching me go by. I find it hard walking just me down the street are where ever im going , I seem to be ok when im with my freinds as talking socializing takes my mind off it . I feel like im loosing my mind sometimes , i really do . I dont know if

this

is just bad paranoia , or this condidtion. I need help . Im scared to say to family or a doctor cus it is such a

weird

thing eg condition and I dont want to tell any one like freinds or family because I think they will think im a complete weirdo. But I know im

feeling

eally alone , desperate. And want help on this. Can someone shed some light ? Thanks alot

Response:

"David Hoy" <david.ho…@ntlworld.com

wrote in message

news:L3wLc.175$sx5.87@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi , I am 17 years old , I think I have a problem, today I heard something about schizophrenia , I looked it up , and its something like what im

having

now .  I hate it.  Heres things straight. – Im paranoid when im out , Im always worrying people are looking at me in cars. Just walking down the street I can imagine people sitting in there house watching me go by. I find it hard walking just me down the street are where ever im going , I seem to be ok when im with my freinds as talking socializing takes my mind off it . I feel like im loosing my mind sometimes , i really do . I dont know if

this

is just bad paranoia , or this condidtion. I need help . Im scared to say to family or a doctor cus it is such a

weird

thing eg condition and I dont want to tell any one like freinds or family because I think they will think im a complete weirdo. But I know im

feeling

eally alone , desperate. And want help on this. Can someone shed some light ? Thanks alot

Yes, I can shed some light.  It’s called growing up and learning to deal with who you are and how you feel. Just WATCH IT – you go to the professionals, they diagnose you as PARANOID or whatever, and before you know it you’ll get a pile of drugs to disguise, repress, and hide WHO you are, WHAT you are, HOW you feel, WHAT you feel. Next thing you know you’ll be 50 years old, and you’ll wonder why you don’t feel "yourself".  And why has life somehow mysteriously passed you by? Growing up and dealing with yourself and your own thoughts and powerful emotions and feelings is very hard.  You have to learn to be intelligent, logical, sensible – overcome these fears, and develop into a thinking person.  The ONLY OTHER OPTION is to repress who you are with drugs, and never reach any kind of potential you have. When you walk down the street and feel people are looking are you this is purely what is called "Self Consciousness".  It is awareness of your own self and feeling that this powerful awareness of yourself and your place in this world is what others are thinking and feeling too. There is a BIG difference between Self Awareness and Self Consciousness. This often happens when you are young, when you first become aware of the world around you, and are afraid, therefore direct it inwards. You must learn to direct it back outwards again. LEARN the difference between being intelligently and thoughtfully AWARE of your surroundings.  Sure, people will look at you and be aware that you exist, the same as they look at EVERY OTHER PERSON ON THE PLANET!  Don’t feel that you are the one and only, the only one that experiences this.  You are merely "conscious" that this is happening. Just learn, at your young age, to be AWARE without being SELF CONSCIOUS. You must be inherently shy.  Don’t smoke grass, that will make it worse, keep off ANY kind of street drugs.  Learn to walk down the street and be AWARE that people watch you (notice you), learn to be aware that you exist, learn to be aware that you are aware!  But also learn that you are the same as EVERY OTHER PERSON ON THIS PLANET!  No one is aware of you more than they are aware of anyone else.  It is your own shyness and fear that makes you think and feel this way. Don’t see a doctor just yet – talk about it (here if you like) until you learn that you are no different, your awareness and consciousness of yourself is just something you have come across in life and there are only two options. Learn to deal with it.  Rationalize and cope with it until it becomes second nature to exist without thinking you are any different.  Your feelings and thoughts will be violent and strong, but that is YOU, these are YOUR feelings and thoughts, they are worse now because you are only 17 and learning what it is like to have them.  They are awful when they first happen, I know I was so scared, I couldn’t even OPEN the front door, let alone go OUT! The second option is to run to the doctor.  He will give you drugs that help, and then when you are 30 you might realize that you have become dependant on chemicals, to give you exactly the same result that intelligent rational thought would have done.  The only difference is that you have the attitude and mentality (as regards your emotions and feelings) as a 17 year old.  And you will go through your life, constantly TERRIFIED of being "yourself" and feeling what you feel, because you can’t cope with it now, so you feel you never can.  And then there will just be the "new and improved you" walking down the street feeling fine, smile on your face, the new "chemical" you.  And you won’t know yourself, and you will never BE yourself until you conform to any required expectation with each new fear or feeling you come across, to conform, to behave, to repress, ANYTHING rather than cope with any bad or frightening feelings caused by just being with who you are. You should come round and lie on my sofa.  I will take you on journeys where everyone knows who I am and what I think, and when I get on a bus they ALL look at me, and I get so paranoid sometimes that I don’t even think any more.  I have almost forgotten what thinking is – that’s the result of a lifetime of medication.  Not just afraid to walk down the road, but afraid to even think in case I have a THOUGHT that makes me feel bad. Try and deal with it.  It’s not hard to just realize that you are self conscious and thinking things that aren’t true, and try to direct your thinking outwards into self awareness, rather than inwards into yourself and your own fears. Good luck.  Repress yourself now with drugs and you will NEVER be who you really are.  If you are a latent Einstein, and being in tune with yourself and how you feel now leads you onto great things, then take the drugs now and the best you will ever hope to achieve is to be a part-time packer at the supermarket.  You will never know what you really want or who you really are, and you will spend your whole life looking for something, and that something is probably only ever going to be the young man you left behind when you were 17 and the dreams and hopes and life you "could" have had. Sorry for this soapbox missive.  I see so many people like myself who have spent a lifetime on drugs, it is such a waste, such a shame, trying to be who you really are, which you never can be once you need the pills to function.  Rather like giving a bird drugs and telling him to feel and experience what it is like to fly in a world where there is no sky, just some kind of safe wind generation simulation computer.  You only get the chance to fly in the real (natural) world once, if you can’t deal with it at the time, then you will end up like me with clipped wings and a tag that says "crippled bird, too late to fly".  My only chance now is to climb a precipice and have a leap of faith – that maybe one day I can be free.  I wish someone had talked to me rather than give me drugs and assume that flying was never what I wanted to do.  I wish we lived in a world where people had the TIME to try and understand and help rather than only enough time to write a prescription or administer an injection.  There will be more and more people like you, until one day, who knows, maybe everyone will take the easy option, and then where will it end?  A world of unnatural beings that can only function with chemicals. A chemical for every occasion. What would then be the difference between us and a world of androids?  We are no doubt the Borg of the future, as we turn not so much into machines, but into chemicals compounds that make our life easy and turn us into mindless automatons of conformity. Michelle

Response:

Hi , I am 17 years old , I think I have a problem, today I heard something about schizophrenia , I looked it up , and its something like what im having now .  I hate it.  Heres things straight. – Im paranoid when im out , Im always worrying people are looking at me in cars. Just walking down the street I can imagine people sitting in there house watching me go by. I find it hard walking just me down the street are where ever im going , I seem to be ok when im with my freinds as talking socializing takes my mind off it . I feel like im loosing my mind sometimes , i really do . I dont know if this is just bad paranoia , or this condidtion. I need help . Im scared to say to family or a doctor cus it is such a weird thing eg condition and I dont want to tell any one like freinds or family because I think they will think im a complete weirdo. But I know im feeling eally alone , desperate. And want help on this. Can someone shed some light ? Thanks alot

Response:

Thanks for the help Michelle.  I’ve tried most of that, but I’ll give it another go. "Contact One" <Cont…@nowhere.com

wrote in message

news:5Zt18.36997$_x4.5414473@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

You’ve checked the Tools/Options/Maintenance – where is says how many days before you want to delete messages??? It could also be a server thing, I read a funny binary newsgroup and they disappear at a fast rate of knots, much quicker than I have it set to, but that I think is because they are binaries and take up a lot of space and

the

server doesn’t have room for them. Also when you first download the newsgroup, if you right click over the newsgroup on the left hand side of the screen then go into properties,  on Synchronize click ALL messages then in last box Local File click Reset and this should clear the entire newsgroup, then when you download it again,

it > should download everything. > Hope any of all of this helps.  I don’t know what you’ve tried. > Michelle > "jerasmus" <puppet_presid…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

> news:O8IRxdxnBHA.1812@cpimsnntpa02… > > Any of you out there know why Outlook Express eats my downloaded posts? > > Every time I log in and download the 20-30 posts of the day, it eliminates

40-50 of my previously downloaded posts.  Eventually only the newest

post

are present and everything comes in — Re:post subject.  This is very annoy. The only fix is delete the newsgroup and start over.  Even then it won’t download the 700 posts I request and at most 100-200 come down from the server.    Netnews.msn.com is my newsgroup server.  Is it a server

issue?

Can’t this be set somewhere in OE? Windows?  Any comments would be appreciated. Jim

Response:

Did you sort this out Jim???

Response:

"Contact One" <Cont…@nowhere.com

wrote in message

news:ye%28.66051$WQ1.10251909@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com…

Did you sort this out Jim???

No not yet.  When I purge the downloaded messages, it looks like it will download 700, as I set it up to do, but quits after 100-200.  Maybe that’s all that is on the server? And as the days pass it continues to delete old messages (usually) faster than the new ones come in.  If I want to reply to an old post, I guess I just go to google. Thanks for your help though. JR

Response:

Incidentally there is a site on the Internet which answers ANY technical software or hardware problem completely free. The link is http://www.protonic.com/ I have never tried it, so I don’t know how quick or good they are, but it comes recommended in my PC Mag. Michelle "jerasmus" <puppet_presid…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:O8IRxdxnBHA.1812@cpimsnntpa02… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Any of you out there know why Outlook Express eats my downloaded posts? Every time I log in and download the 20-30 posts of the day, it eliminates 40-50 of my previously downloaded posts.  Eventually only the newest post are present and everything comes in — Re:post subject.  This is very

annoy.

The only fix is delete the newsgroup and start over.  Even then it won’t download the 700 posts I request and at most 100-200 come down from the server.    Netnews.msn.com is my newsgroup server.  Is it a server issue? Can’t this be set somewhere in OE? Windows?  Any comments would be appreciated. Jim

Response:

Any of you out there know why Outlook Express eats my downloaded posts? Every time I log in and download the 20-30 posts of the day, it eliminates 40-50 of my previously downloaded posts.  Eventually only the newest post are present and everything comes in — Re:post subject.  This is very annoy. The only fix is delete the newsgroup and start over.  Even then it won’t download the 700 posts I request and at most 100-200 come down from the server.    Netnews.msn.com is my newsgroup server.  Is it a server issue? Can’t this be set somewhere in OE? Windows?  Any comments would be appreciated. Jim

Response:

You’ve checked the Tools/Options/Maintenance – where is says how many days before you want to delete messages??? It could also be a server thing, I read a funny binary newsgroup and they disappear at a fast rate of knots, much quicker than I have it set to, but that I think is because they are binaries and take up a lot of space and the server doesn’t have room for them. Also when you first download the newsgroup, if you right click over the newsgroup on the left hand side of the screen then go into properties,  on Synchronize click ALL messages then in last box Local File click Reset and this should clear the entire newsgroup, then when you download it again, it should download everything. Hope any of all of this helps.  I don’t know what you’ve tried. Michelle "jerasmus" <puppet_presid…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:O8IRxdxnBHA.1812@cpimsnntpa02… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Any of you out there know why Outlook Express eats my downloaded posts? Every time I log in and download the 20-30 posts of the day, it eliminates 40-50 of my previously downloaded posts.  Eventually only the newest post are present and everything comes in — Re:post subject.  This is very

annoy.

The only fix is delete the newsgroup and start over.  Even then it won’t download the 700 posts I request and at most 100-200 come down from the server.    Netnews.msn.com is my newsgroup server.  Is it a server issue? Can’t this be set somewhere in OE? Windows?  Any comments would be appreciated. Jim

Response:

I am studying schizophrenia and would be gratful of any help from anybody who knows anything about the subject. I am studying for a human behaviour course at college and help would be appreciated. Thankyou Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

jojo…@my-deja.com wrote in message <8rsdhr$q3…@nnrp1.deja.com

… I am studying schizophrenia and would be gratful of any help from anybody who knows anything about the subject. I am studying for a human behaviour course at college and help would be appreciated. Thankyou

Try www.schizophrenia.com www.openthedoors.com/ Lily

Response:

In article <8rsdhr$q3…@nnrp1.deja.com

,

  jojo…@my-deja.com wrote:

I am studying schizophrenia and would be gratful of any help from anybody who knows anything about the subject. I am studying for a human behaviour course at college and help would be appreciated. Thankyou

— Will not say you are wasting your time, only finding that the experts are often the ones rocking the boat.  Crazy Lou http://www.grizzadam.com/nam/homepage.html http://www.grizzadam.com/nam/images/skepticsaward.wav Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

it like having a tatoo on your head that reads ""NUT – DO NOT HIRE – NEEDS TO BE LOCKED AWAY" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -jojo…@my-deja.com wrote:

I am studying schizophrenia and would be gratful of any help from anybody who knows anything about the subject. I am studying for a human behaviour course at college and help would be appreciated. Thankyou Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

TigerLilly did you choose that name after the Natalie Merchant CD ? I played it today at the socila club and got a nice comment on it. I love her music. Ed

Response:

machinist…@webtv.net wrote in message

<27194-39E4CC78…@storefull-623.iap.bryant.webtv.net

…

TigerLilly did you choose that name after the Natalie Merchant CD ? I played it today at the socila club and got a nice comment on it. I love her music. Ed Sorry Ed, but no, I didn’t.  It’s a nice CD.  But actually the nick arose from something the much missed Dan Coyote said to me once when I was using a different nick, plus the fact that I have a thing for tigers. Lily

Response:

In article <39E23E5C.AE5B1…@earthlink.net

,

  Alfred Kimmel <akim…@earthlink.net

wrote: it like having a tatoo on your head that reads ""NUT – DO NOT HIRE – NEEDS TO BE LOCKED AWAY" jojo…@my-deja.com wrote: I am studying schizophrenia and would be gratful of any help from anybody who knows anything about the subject. I am studying for a human behaviour course at college and help would be appreciated. Thankyou Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

// I wonder of this guy JOJO will ever come back and read the replys? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Hello all, There seems to be a lot of talk about whether or not you should take an anti-anxiety agent or benzo "as needed" and a lot of talk regarding whether or not you should bother to suffer when you can medicate so as to avoid altogether. The reason I posted the original question in the first place was because I am 30 years old, on Klonopin for almost three years and am now trying to conceive a child.  So I have weaned down to .25 mg starting tomorrow (.5 for the last two weeks), down from 2.5 mg per day.  I do not want to be totally left hanging in case there is a chance of attacks making their appearance again.  So I needed to know if there was something I could take as needed instead of on a daily basis. My opinion?  If you can take it everyday and it gets rid of your attacks and anxiety…by all means, don’t suffer.  But sometimes you have to take a sacrificial "hit" because we really do not know how Klonopin can effect a pregnancy or a baby. Theresa

Response:

Theresa… I’m not familiar with the effect, if any, on an unborn child using Klonopin. The simple fact that your willing to take a "sacrificial hit" shows how strong you really are. Having that kind of confidence in yourself and "living" for another life that’s more important than your own is a great thing to have. Don’t loose hold of that. It’s probably the best defense of all. After you wean off, or down, from Klonipon, you might try some of the things I’ve done to help lower my need for XANAX, even though I’m now taking it very regularly. – Simple Mediation (See below for alternate examples of how to get into that state) – Learn Yoga or Tai Chi – both a great for PA/GAD and for pregnancies from what I hear (but I’m a guy so what would I know – Warm tea mixtures – either buy bulk or pre mixed. I’ve found The Earth Tea Collection a great spot. You can get a catalog if your store doesn’t carry them by calling 800 298-4tea. I see no web site for them. There are lot’s of caffeine free teas to chose from. They help A LOT! – Take short walks, in the woods if possible. -Don’t laugh at this one but it had been THE life saver next to XANAX – a light/sound meditation machine. I purchased a mediation/relaxation machine that has many studies showing it’s effectiveness in helping with anxiety, as well other "mood" altering functions. I purchased the machine from the web site: http://http://toolsforexploration.com. The EXACT product I bought, after MUCH investigation, is at http://toolsforexploration.com/catalog/product/default.asp?pid=145. I CANNOT tell you how much this helps. I had read studies about light/sound machines through several hospitals – John Hopkins, Mass General, etc. This stuff really works. Of course you can’t use it ALL the time (you’d look foolish walking around with flashing glasses and headphones on all day!) but at least once a day makes a HUGE difference. Take a look around the site. My PDoc was blown away at the technologies now available to the general public at this site. He is fully supportive of this step. No downside at all – except the $129.00 bucks! I work in a pretty stressful environment and have brought this into work. 9 people have purchased it and RAVE about it, including my best friend who just lost his young wife to cancer. It literally is a GREAT non drug stress reliever! Best money I ever spent! (I don’t work for these guys if your concerned:-) I Just think the technology is HUGE! In 10 minutes I’ll be doing a 30 minute session with yoga. GREAT STUFF! Sorry for babbling. Just my 3 cents… Good luck in your journey… Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, There seems to be a lot of talk about whether or not you should take an anti-anxiety agent or benzo "as needed" and a lot of talk regarding whether or not you should bother to suffer when you can medicate so as to avoid altogether. The reason I posted the original question in the first place was because I am 30 years old, on Klonopin for almost three years and am now trying to conceive a child.  So I have weaned down to .25 mg starting tomorrow (.5 for the last two weeks), down from 2.5 mg per day.  I do not want to be totally left hanging in case there is a chance of attacks making their appearance again.  So I needed to know if there was something I could take as needed instead of on a daily basis. My opinion?  If you can take it everyday and it gets rid of your attacks and anxiety…by all means, don’t suffer.  But sometimes you have to take a sacrificial "hit" because we really do not know how Klonopin can effect a pregnancy or a baby. Theresa

Response:

Question:

1.3.    Then the seer exists by itself as itself In the light of non-volitional, non-moving and therefore spontaneous and choiceless awareness the undivided intelligence with its apparent and passing modifications or movements of thought within itself is not confused with nor confined to any of these. Then (when yoga thus happens), the seer or the homogeneous intelligence which is ignorantly regarded as the seperate experiencer of sensations and emotions, and the seperate performer of actions, is not split up into one or the other of the states or modifications of the mind, and exists by itself and as itself. sandra’s comments – We are one, and this is a profound and simple way of viewing ourselves. Although what we think of as self is made up of an infinite number of components, none of these nor their mere sum is self. There’s a mystery, call it soul, spirit, anima that is the spark of life. Once again we learn yoga isn’t meditation although meditation can lead us to this place where the seer exists by itself as itself.

Response:

1.3. Then the seer exists by itself as itself.

Feuerstein trans:  1.3.  Then the seer abides in its essence. sandra’s comments – We are one, and this is a profound and simple way of viewing ourselves. Although what we think of as self is made up of an infinite number of components, none of these nor their mere sum is self. There’s a mystery, call it soul, spirit, anima that is the spark of life. Once again we learn yoga isn’t meditation although meditation can lead us to this place where the seer exists by itself as itself.

tim’s comments:   In addition to your observation about what this sutra says about our nature, it is also I think an elegant expression of where yoga leads us.  "Yoga is the restriction of the fluctuations of consciousness; then the seer abides in its essence."  If we were all sunken sailboats, patanjali’s yoga would be the process of scraping away the barnacles, seaweed, scum, etc. until only the sailboat remained. And as well see in later sutras, patanjali isn’t concerned about what tool you use — a screwdriver, a spatula, a sandblaster, or an old tin can (i.e., compassion (1.33); pranayama (1.34); asana (1.35); study (1.36); devotion to a saint (1.37); dream insight (1.38); mediation (1.39)).  They all can lead toward an awareness and experience of whatever it is that is left after all the muck is scraped away.  A very quiet place, I think.

Response:

Question:

There are several Iyengar teachers in Nashville.  The URL for the list is: http://comnet.org/iynaus/cert2.html#TN One of your earlier posts made it sound like Nashville was actually too far away to go on a daily or weekly basis, but if nothing else, perhaps one of these teachers has a weekend class that you *can* attend semi- regularly, to keep your personal practice on track so that you don’t hurt yourself through bad alignment, etc, *especially* starting out. I second the recommendation for "Yoga the Iyengar Way".  It’s very helpful for clearly describing the asanas and therapeutics, but somewhat less so for meditation and yogic philosophy, if those are also your interests. Namaste, Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for your offer but I am in the United States.  Tennessee to be exact.  If anyone does know of any perhaps near Nashville that I could contact, let me know.  I am not close enough to go on a regular basis but would like to touch base with someone with some experience every now and then. Misty

Response:

There are several Iyengar teachers in Nashville.  The URL for the list is: http://comnet.org/iynaus/cert2.html#TN One of your earlier posts made it sound like Nashville was actually too far away to go on a daily or weekly basis, but if nothing else,

<snip Thank you for the link.  I will check it out.  I am actually too far from Nashville to go to a teacher there on a regular basis.  But maybe I can find an understanding one who would let me visit once a month or so and give me a little direction/instruction. Misty

Response:

Hi Misty,         I would highly recommend taking occasional classes in addition to home practise so that you can get some feedback and guidance from a qualified instructor while you are learning yoga.  As someone who tried to learn yoga from books, I found that there were several postures I had been performing incorrectly until I went to some classes!         In addition to yoga books, you might find it useful to also use videotapes at home.  I am also looking for good videotapes, perhaps someone here can suggest some?         Good luck! Tanya – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for the link.  I will check it out.  I am actually too far from Nashville to go to a teacher there on a regular basis.  But maybe I can find an understanding one who would let me visit once a month or so and give me a little direction/instruction. Misty

Response:

That’s the sort of thing I was thinking of.  It’ll do wonders for your practice, unless you’re *much* better at learning _physical_ things out of a book than most folks. Around here (CA) anyway, almost all of the teachers take drop-in students, at maybe $10-15 for a 1.5-hour class. BTW, I grew up in Tennessee – not that part of the state (I was in Memphis) but I had friends from Nashville, Gallatin, Murfreesboro, McMinnville, & various other bits of central TN. Good luck! Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of your earlier posts made it sound like Nashville was actually too far away to go on a daily or weekly basis, but if nothing else, <snip Thank you for the link.  I will check it out.  I am actually too far from Nashville to go to a teacher there on a regular basis.  But maybe I can find an understanding one who would let me visit once a month or so and give me a little direction/instruction. Misty

Response:

Misty,         <A HREF="http://www.yogajournal.com/toc/tocframe.html"toc</A <A HREF="http://www.yogafinder.com/cgi-bin/yogafinder"YogaFinder Home Page</A these are two links to teacher directories. If you don’t find a teacher there post again. There’s another list I can consult.         peace, sandra

Response:

For any beginners out there, I would also highly recommend "Yoga the Iyengar Way" by the Mehta’s as an excellent book explaining in detail (and with large color photographs) the fundamentals of many of the basic yoga postures.  Even though I’m fortunate to have many nearby teachers here in Boston, the book was a great reference to have in the room as my practice at home developed.  Also, for those without nearby teachers, I think it would be a great compliment to working with videos. I admire those of you with the curiosity and dedication to undertake yoga without the support of teachers and/or other yoga friends around.  I’m not sure I could have done it.  Please keep us posted on the progress and obstacles you encounter.  I know I speak for many of us on this group that we’d like to help in any way we can as you continue on your path of this life-affirming practice which has given so much to us. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in a similarly remote position and am also a beginner. Having tried several books from the local library (which is itself an hour’s drive away), "Yoga the Iyengar Way" by S, M & S Mehta is the one that I found most useful and decided to buy.

Response:

If you are looking for a yoga teacher in the UK try our directory online at: http://www.kevala.co.uk/search/ Good luck with your search Simon

Thank you for your offer but I am in the United States.  Tennessee to be exact.  If anyone does know of any perhaps near Nashville that I could contact, let me know.  I am not close enough to go on a regular basis but would like to touch base with someone with some experience every now and then. Misty

Response:

If you are looking for a yoga teacher in the UK try our directory online at: http://www.kevala.co.uk/search/ Good luck with your search Simon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Misty,     Please go to a well trained teacher. The tradition does not matter, though Iyengar teachers have a great deal of knowledge on therapuetics and have access through the national org. to many resources. Don’t try and learn what to do solely from a book because invariably you will fool yourself. Yes, yoga can and will do wonders for your spine,but you have to make the committment to it with good intentions.     Wishing you well, Matt Misty, Start by getting yourself a copy of Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabit Zinn. I think it will reassure you and explain some things. Jon has also developed some audio tapes of his program that you may find helpful. this is yoga, but the focus is on pain relief through awareness. peace, sandra

– Web Developer, The Kevala centre http://www.kevala.co.uk

Response:

Thank everyone for their suggestions and book recommendations.  i will try to find some of them.  You’ve all been very nice, and I appreciate it immensely.   I’ll study my books and when I feel that I know enough to practice safely, I’ll begin.  Going back to lurker mode until I have experiences to share.   Misty

Response:

Misty, If a student cannot find a teacher because of living is a remote area, then the only way to gain knowledge may be from a book.  It is not ideal.  Yes, I think that the book Tim recommends is very good. _Asana Pranayama Mudra Bandha_ by Swami Satyananda Saraswati, Pub. Bihar Yoga Bharati, Munger, Bihar, India, although more advanced has a lot which I am sure would be of help!  Asanas are graded from beginner to advanced, with a description of each asana with variations: breathing, awareness, benefits and in some cases mantra.  There is also a Therapeutic Index with recommended asanas, etc., for common ailments. The book can be ordered through bookshops, at least in England.  But you could order it from India. Denis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For any beginners out there, I would also highly recommend "Yoga the Iyengar Way" by the Mehta’s as an excellent book explaining in detail (and with large color photographs) the fundamentals of many of the basic yoga posturesdone it.

Response:

Thank you for the suggestion.  But I live in a small rural town in the south (USA).  There are no classes within an hour of my house.  I cannot find a teacher and cannot afford one.  Believe me, if I could, I would.  But there is no way that I can find or afford classes now.  Thank you for the suggestions, though.  

I’m in a similarly remote position and am also a beginner. Having tried several books from the local library (which is itself an hour’s drive away), "Yoga the Iyengar Way" by S, M & S Mehta is the one that I found most useful and decided to buy. Daibhidh An t-Eilean Sgitheanach, Alba (Isle of Skye, Scotland) Cum a’ Ghaidhlig Beo .d. in Reply-To should be .demon.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Misty,    Please go to a well trained teacher. The tradition does not matter, though Iyengar teachers have a great deal of knowledge on therapuetics and have access through the national org. to many resources. Don’t try and learn what to do solely from a book because invariably you will fool yourself. Yes, yoga can and will do wonders for your spine,but you have to make the committment to it with good intentions.    Wishing you well, Matt Misty, Start by getting yourself a copy of Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabit Zinn. I think it will reassure you and explain some things. Jon has also developed some audio tapes of his program that you may find helpful. this is yoga, but the focus is on pain relief through awareness. peace, sandra

Thank you for the suggestion.  But I live in a small rural town in the south (USA).  There are no classes within an hour of my house.  I cannot find a teacher and cannot afford one.  Believe me, if I could, I would.  But there is no way that I can find or afford classes now.  Thank you for the suggestions, though.   Peace, Misty

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Misty,         Start by getting yourself a copy of Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabit Zinn. I think it will reassure you and explain some things. Jon has also developed some audio tapes of his program that you may find helpful. this is yoga, but the focus is on pain relief through awareness. peace, sandra

Response:

Misty,     Please go to a well trained teacher. The tradition does not matter, though Iyengar teachers have a great deal of knowledge on therapuetics and have access through the national org. to many resources. Don’t try and learn what to do solely from a book because invariably you will fool yourself. Yes, yoga can and will do wonders for your spine,but you have to make the committment to it with good intentions.     Wishing you well, Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Misty, Start by getting yourself a copy of Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabit Zinn. I think it will reassure you and explain some things. Jon has also developed some audio tapes of his program that you may find helpful. this is yoga, but the focus is on pain relief through awareness. peace, sandra

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Hello again, I was the one asking for the FAQ.  Seeing as there is none, here goes. . . I have peripheral neuropathy (nerve and muscle damage in all of my extremities) and I fell before Christmas and my chiropractor says that my coccyx has shifted to the left.  Every time he shifts it back over, it goes back to the left.  It and the PN are causing me an almost unbearable amount of pain.  I want to start practicing yoga but am concerned about this.  Does anyone have any recommendations on what asanas to try and which to not attempt?  Is there any chance that yoga could straighten my spine back out?  I have to shift my weight to one side because of the pain from the coccyx being out of allignment. Yoga seems to be the kindest form of exercise to an ailing body and I am hoping that pranayama techniques could aid in pain management.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.   Thank you for your time, Misty

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Question:

Since the original topic was stress relieving techniques, may I point out that making fun of other people pain is a proven stress relieving technique and we don’t have to buy anything to do it! The women in question is a loser.  Most of us are. Learning how to breath in a pattern to shift your brain chemistry isn’t medicine, it’s hyperventilating and a little suggestion.  Big deal.

You have obviously never meditated or done pranayama. Actually breathing, in medical terms handles 78% of detoxing. Think about it. 78% of the things in your body that need to leave it leave through breathing. << ASIDE: If faith healing works on faith, why does it cost so much?

who said we were talking about faith healing? — Om Namaha Shivaya-The Poetential for Growth is Infinite. http://www.geocities.com/athens/oracle/6204

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Since the original topic was stress relieving techniques, may I point out that making fun of other people pain is a proven stress relieving technique and we don’t have to buy anything to do it! The women in question is a loser.  Most of us are. Learning how to breath in a pattern to shift your brain chemistry isn’t medicine, it’s hyperventilating and a little suggestion.  Big deal. << ASIDE: If faith healing works on faith, why does it cost so much? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following article is written by Leonard Orr the founder of Intuitive ph (607) 865- 8254 I kept looking for a pricetag while reading this article. Why does it remind me of a typical commersial ad for liquor or perfume or such things? Commersial is spelled commercial. And I am not sure why you would think this article reminds you of a liquor ad. Because it *is* an ad. Your response to this article reminds me of someone who is acting out of some emotional need to make other people wrong- it is very childish and totally off given how many people around the world have experienced healing through Rebirthing. Well, this is exactly the sort of thing one would expect a salesman like you to say. How about some scientific evidence that "rebirthing" offers anything other than the placebo effect? Fun Breathing – Intuitive Breathing by Leonard Orr     Lora is a very beautiful, sensitive, and successful woman. Her retail store netted her over $50,000 per year for many years. So I figure she had a nice bundle in the bank. Is there anything wrong with having money? Did he *say* there was anything wrong with having money? Your response reminds me of someone who is acting out of some emotional need to make other people wrong- it is very childish. She lived very well. Yet, she felt so overwhelmed by her business and her life that she was trying to sell her business when she started breathing sessions. She was in an abusive relationship with a man. That poor rich lady! Money can’t buy love. <sniff I actually know Lora and I don’t see why you would get pleasure out of making light of her pain. I *don’t* actually know Lora, and I don’t see how you can justify using her pain for advertising purposes. Now I think we begin to see an outline of The Preferred Customer, a rich, sad and confused lady, not *necessarily* a widow, an almost divorcee would probably work just as fine, prepared to sell her business. I am not sure why you feel threatened by this article. I can’t speak for Staffan, but *I* feel threatened whenever quacks try to pull swindles like this one. Quacks are bad, so I’d rather not see them get rich. Actually Leonard teaches his students to never tern away breathing clients for lack of money- which means we aren’t working for money. Tern is spelled turn. Which is simpler word than commercial, especially for an apparently native English speaker such as yourself – as opposed to Staffan Nielsen who, judging by his name, may not have English as his first language. But back to the subject… What percentage of the students didn’t pay anything? Unless its 100%, you are WORKING FOR MONEY. Come on now, are we to imagine that you have so many homeless people outside your door, that you can’t make a profit? How can we when some of our clients can’t afford to pay us anything!? SOME is not the same as ALL, you irrational nitwit. But she also found a source of spiritual strength through the sessions. The cleansing power of her breathing sessions enabled her to see life more clearly. The pure Life Energy of the sessions gave her new vision and new power for work. Lora

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hola soy un espa

Question:

If you have a compressed disk it is safer not to run as running is jarring. If you must run, run lightly with smaller steps, avoid bobbing up and down. If you back acts up then ease up and rest. Learn yoga especially those postures for backache. If your body is telling you running is not for you there are many other activities that gives you as much pleasure. Skating is really fun without all that jarring, you can go faster and also get aerobic. Swimming is good as water supports the weight of your body. Or just fast walking ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I posted a few montths ago regarding low back pain.  SInce then I’ve had my low back x-rayed, been to the doctor, the chiropractor and seeral trips to the physical therapist. The chiropractor who x-rayed it said I have a compressed disk between l5 and s1.  I’ve been doing back exercises for three months now.  My quesion is:  given that I haven’t done any running at all for all that time, though I’ve been dong a lot of walking up and down hill to my current job since Oct 30, how can I tell if it’s safe to start running again, or will it ever be safe to start running again, or do compressed disks just stay compressed? I’mnot having sciatica pain like I was but I’m afrid that if I run at all, it will just bring it back, since occasionally it still shows up. ANy advice/eperience?  Thanks. Ken

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   I posted a few montths ago regarding low back pain.  SInce then I’ve had my low back x-rayed, been to the doctor, the chiropractor and seeral trips to the physical therapist. The chiropractor who x-rayed it said I have a compressed disk between l5 and s1.  I’ve been doing back exercises for three months now.  My quesion is:  given that I haven’t done any running at all for all that time, though I’ve been dong a lot of walking up and down hill to my current job since Oct 30, how can I tell if it’s safe to start running again, or will it ever be safe to start running again, or do compressed disks just stay compressed? I’mnot having sciatica pain like I was but I’m afrid that if I run at all, it will just bring it back, since occasionally it still shows up. ANy advice/eperience?  Thanks. Ken

Response:

   I posted a few montths ago regarding low back pain.  SInce then I’ve had my low back x-rayed, been to the doctor, the chiropractor and seeral trips to the physical therapist. The chiropractor who x-rayed it said I have a compressed disk between l5 and s1.  I’ve been doing back exercises for three months now.  My quesion is:  given that I haven’t done any running at all for all that time, though I’ve been dong a lot of walking up and down hill to my current job since Oct 30, how can I tell if it’s safe to start running again, or will it ever be safe to start running again, or do compressed disks just stay compressed? I’mnot having sciatica pain like I was but I’m afrid that if I run at all, it will just bring it back, since occasionally it still shows up. ANy advice/eperience?  Thanks.

A couple years ago I had a herniated disk that was causing back pain and sciatica in my left leg.  I think a herniated disk is about the same as a compressed disk.  Anyway, I stopped running for about 6 weeks until the back pain and sciatica were gone.  Then I resumed running, slowly building back up to my previous distances and speeds.  Since then I’ve used weights to strengthen the muscles in the back and abdomen, and I haven’t had any further problem with back pain or sciatica. I think disks get compressed (or herniated) because the spongy material in there dries out with age.  Not much you can do about that, but if you keep the surrounding muscles strong, you should be able to minimize the negative effects and pretty much eliminate the pain without having to give up your running.  Probably the best policy, though, is to go see a sports medicine specialist and get his/her "blessing" on your running plans. — JB

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry, but this criticism won’t wash.  If you seriously stand behind your theory, you should be prepared to answer questions which point out weaknesses in your argument.  Claiming that "people who ask questions clearly have not understood it" is a truism and doesn’t their questions any less valid.  And why should people who see weakness in your argument have to "give it a try"?  If that were so, then we should all be taking all of the vitamin supplements, anti-oxidants, etc., which have been advertised on this group. The fact that it costs nothing is meaningless:  either it is worth trying or it isn’t. Although your theory clearly makes sense to you, it would seem that it doesn’t make sense to some others.  Although people have claimed benefit from your method, it is not clear to me that the few anecdotes related offer enough evidence to dismiss the placebo effect.  And as for your request for others to go away, this is a Usenet forum. Anyone may followup to your postings with requests for clarification. And those of us who are skeptical, and fear that you might be raising people’s hopes with claims of a cure, and wonder whether your method justifies the investment of time, are also motivated by concern for asthmatics’ health.

Here, here!  Where are all the Butyeko success stories out there?  Who in this NG knows someone who uses no medications, has no asthma, and owes it all to Butyeko?   One poster has mentioned that is son got over asthma using Butyeko.  That’s great; I have a brother and sister who both had childhood asthma and don’t have it as adults.  People (a lot of people) grow out of asthma.  But I would like to hear from more people who Butyeko cured of all asthma and use of medications. claire

Response:

OK, I have some serious questions about this Buteyko theory.  I have been reading the posts for the past few months and I think it would be great if Buteyko did work, but I have doubts.  My doubts fall into several categories: 1) apparent physiological inaccuracies with the model (warning: I tried to reduce jargon, but this part is a little technical), 2) anecdotal evidence that doesn’t seem to support the model, 3) problems with the attitudes of the Buteyko supporters. 1) Physiological problems (Note, I am not a medical doctor.  I have a Ph.D. in Biology (aquatic biology specialty) and have some rudimentary knowledge of the human circulatory system, but am not an expert) As I understand it (mostly from the posts of Peter Kolb), the basic idea of Buteyko is that asthmatics suffer from "chronic hyperventilation", so that they breathe too much, thereby causing the CO2 levels in the blood to decrease (increasing the blood pH) so that the bronchioles constrict to reduce the amount of CO2 being released from the lungs. I have several basic problems with this theory:   a) Breathing IS controlled predominantly by CO2 concentrations in the blood.  When there is a lot of CO2 (for example after we exercise) we are stimulated to breath more.  When there is less CO2 we are inhibited from breathing.  So, for this theory to be correct asthmatics must have some kind of problem with our breath controlling system (for example we are not sensing the CO2 in the blood correctly or the signal is not being transmitted correctly to our brains), because our bodies should automatically stop us from "breathing too much" or losing too much CO2. If this is true then           i) we should be able to find such a physiological problem in asthmatics           ii) it is not clear why breathing less would really help with the fundamental problem of controlling breathing to an appropriate level (for example, it wouldn’t be a good thing to breath less when we are exercising and producing more CO2). It should be noted that the normal reaction to too little CO2 is to breath less, not to have the alveoli close (as mentioned by some posters).  I would like some demonstration (beyond proof by blatant assertion) that asthmatics have replaced the typical breath less response with a new close alveoli response. b) Blood pH is tightly controlled.  It is controlled not only by the carbonate buffers mentioned so frequently by the Buteyko supporter posters, but actually more by blood proteins and by the kidneys, that not only can take up excess acidity, but can also release acid components if the blood lacks them (so, if we were really losing too much CO2 and the blood was becoming too alkaline, then the kidneys would compensate and bring the blood back to an appropriate pH level).  All of the vertebrate anatomy texts I checked said that blood pH rarely varies beyond the range 7.2-7.6.  If it were true for asthmatics that loss of CO2 made our blood more alkaline, it would be simple to test our blood pH and see if it was off.  Is this data available???  Also, it really is unlikely that the blood would reach severely alkaline conditions (mentioned by some posters as the cause of lung inflammation), if it did MANY body processes would be severely impaired, not just the lungs. c) Peter Kolb said that the uptake of oxygen is impaired at high pH (low CO2, alkaline conditions), but actually hemoglobin (the protein in the blood that takes up oxygen and delivers it to the body) is actually MORE efficient at taking up oxygen at high pH.  If you think about it this makes sense because in tissues that are actively working (for example your legs while you are jogging) they are using O2 and producing CO2;  they need oxygen, so hemoglobin picks up oxygen in the lungs where there is low CO2 and high O2 and drops it in the legs where there is high CO2 and low O2).  Again, at decreasing levels of CO2 hemoglobin would pick up MORE O2 (check out a good college introductory biology text if you don’t believe me). So, if we are overbreathing and therefore releasing more CO2, we should also have too much O2, not too little.  However, as anyone who has been to the hospital for an asthma attack or even to the doctor for a lung function test knows, we asthmatics consistently have TOO LITTLE O2 in our blood.  This is not consistent with Buteyko. 2) Anecdotal Problems – I know that anecdotes are not good science, but so far the Buteyko supporters are using them to back up their claims, so here are a few of my own:    a) As with Claire (and other recent posters) I breathe through my nose! (I have had asthma since infancy, I am now 30 [ugh]).  I still have asthma.  I do not take antihistamines, so I am not "cheating", whatever that means.  I currently need to take serevent and aerobid twice a day or I end up in the ER.  Obviously there are benefits to breathing through ones nose (if you can): the air is warmed, some particulates are removed before they can irritate the lungs.  If these were the benefits you were touting I would be less skeptical.  Also, my husband, who has a perpetual stuffed nose, frequently breathes through his mouth, and is not asthmatic!!!    b) I am an avid SCUBA diver.  I have been diving since I was 16 (when my asthma symptoms were in remission and I rarely used medications).  I ALWAYS use less air (often 1/2 to 1/3 less) than my diving buddies.  I have had hundreds of diving buddies, and I have never used more air than any of them.  Therefore it seems very unlikely to me that I am overbreathing, when I am breathing less than everyone that I have dived with, and note that when diving I have to breath through my MOUTH, due to the regulator!  So if anything I should be breathing more than usual, according to Buteyko enthusiasts. 3) Problems with the Buteyko supporter enthusiasts:    a) They have said that people are "cured of asthma".  How is this measured?  Did they have a lung function test and find that they are now normal??? or are they just off of medications?  I have gone through several periods in my life where I used little or no medications, but I was not "cured" of asthma (even though I would have liked to have been).   My Dad has asthma and never takes medications.  He runs 6 miles a day.   He is not cured of asthma and still wheezes when allergens are present or if he gets sick.  It is somewhat dangerous to declare someone "cured" without medical advice, as they could then go somewhere where allergens might affect them without the proper medication and could become quite ill or die.    b) This has been asked before, but WHY DON’T YOU POST THE DAMN TECHNIQUE!!!  I exercise daily to try to improve my health and lung conditioning (and it is the single most important factor controlling my asthma).  I would certainly give Buteyko a try.  If you are not another scam artist trying to take advantage of the asthmatic community then why don’t you post it and let us try?  If we see some benefit we will then be much more likely to pay someone the $300 to learn more, just as people who learn yoga or other exercises from a book will often then sign up for a course at the local gym.  You set off a bunch of warning bells with your insistence that we send each of you a personal request for your technique and the supporting evidence.  Will it not stand up to general scrutiny?  Do you just want our email addresses to start sending us unsolicited  advertisements?  What’s the deal?   c) Peter Kolb, in particular, has been especially rude.  He has criticized  many posters, implying that they are stupid for not understanding his brief and somewhat scattered descriptions of the Buteyko method (I may not be a particularly smart person, but I am not stupid either, and the posts were unclear to me, too).  He told Claire that she was "cheating" by using medications.  This is a derogatory and ridiculous remark.  His posts imply that anyone using medications is somehow bad, without giving us the alternative explicitly.  If you are trying to convince us of the efficacy of your technique, don’t chastise or criticize us, explain yourself.  This is a support group! What I ask is that the supporters of Buteyko be more specific about their claims and less defensive when we question the method.  We are on this conference to learn more and try to take control of our disease, and just as most of us would not blindly accept physician’s advice that we thought sounded odd, we are healthily skeptical about spectacular claims that are made for a technique that we have not heard about and that supporters are consistently vague about.  Convince us; let us try it; don’t condemn us. Kimberly L. Schulz, Ph.D.

Response:

As i have said before your "theory" isn’t and you haven’t published a paper explaining the practice, so you’ve produced nothing.  But you are clearly trying to prey on people’s frustration with existing techniques.  I have asked a number of very clear questions which raise critical issues surrounding your "theory".  Your name calling can only be proof of your desparation – you know you have no theory so all that is left to you is to call me names and to imply that my mental acuity is insufficient.  Well, when the king is naked i feel it is my duty to point it out and bud, you are clearly naked. … jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some criticism of the over-breathing theory on asthma that I’ve been pushing on this group for a while.  So far the criticism has come from people who have clearly not understood it and have’nt bothered to give it a try.  This is surprizing since it costs nothing but a little effort. I have presented the theory several times before,  but I’m going to try one last time using words that even Jeffrey will understand. Infact I’m going to try and keep it as short as possible because Jeffrey seems to have a limted attention span. The theory was developed by Professor Buteyko ( a medical doctor) some forty years ago.  I made an announcement to the group recently that I have adapted his 30 page paper for emailing and will be happy to send it to anyone who wants a copy.  Your copy, Kathleen,  is in the E-mail. The reason I’m pushing this theory is because it makes sense,  it explains things classical asthma thinking does’nt and above  all it works.  I’ve seen it work.  There  are people in this group who have tried it and have found it to work.  Those of you who are not interested, please go away.  There are people deriving benefit from this information. Fundamentally the theory claims that asthma is a condition characterized by excessive breathing.  It is also  often exacerbated by the characteristic asthmatic allergic response. (You may need your dictionary here,  Jeffrey.)  Now you can argue about that as  much as you like.  But patients who have made an effort at cutting  down on their breathing have in the short term substantially reduced their dependence on bronchodilators,  and in the long term found a cure from their asthma.   Excessive long term breathing has the following consequence: 1.  The bronchioles constrict.  Why?   Well the lungs are involved in regulating the pH (acidity) of the blood.  They do this by controlling the amount of Carbon Dioxide released to the atmosphere.  When you breathe too much you blow off too much CO2.  The Bronchioles detect a rise in the pH and close up to conserve carbon dioxide,  because it is their function to act as regulators.   [Note Jeffrey,  the word OXYGEN has not appeared anywhere yet].  If you are always breathing too much then your bronchioles will always be pretty much constricted. 2.  The body has long term mechanisms  to compensate for breathing pathologies.  Notably the kidneys will take over the function of regulating the pH by controlling excretion of Bicarb and Hydrogen ions. 3.  The consequence of this compensation is that there is an abnormal distiribution in the five various forms Carbon Dioxide takes in the Blood.    And since  Carbon Dioxide is involved one way or another in nearly all metabolic processes,  all of them are affected. 4.  Buteyko shows in his paper (which is freely available) that the consequences are an oxygen inefficiency in metabolism,  leading the patient to develop a hunger for more oxygen.  [Note Jeffrey,  the asthmatic needs more OXYGEN].   5.  The consequence of (4.) is that the Overbreathing cycle maintains itself and the bronchiloles remain constricted. Depending on the degree of overbreathing that the patient has become used to,  the patinet’s tolerance to fluctuations in moment to moment breathing will be affected.  For example a little hyperventilation induced by anxiety,  stress etc,  could push him over the edge.  All that is needed is for a little more Carbon dioxide to be blown off and the bronchioles go into spasm.  Allergens would obviously have the same effect by contributing to an already swollen mucosa. This explains why you can’t just breathe more when you’re having an asthma attack.  The more you breathe the more CO2 you’re blowing off and the more your bronchioles will constrict. The solution then is to teach the body to breathe less.   This is done as follows: Firstly,  make sure you breathe through your nose.  Your nose is part of your respiratory system.  If you breathe too much  your nasal linings will swell and become even more sensitive to allergens.  So what you need to do is learn to stifle your breathing to the absolute bare minimum.  You need to develop a hunger for oxygen.   When you’ve been doing this for a while you’ll  find that your nasal passages open up.   For stubborn cases you may have to do Breath holding exercises,  but these must be done IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR DOCTOR as they could present a danger to patients with other conditions such as heart, high BP etc. They basically involve holding your breath for as long as possible at the end of expiration,  followed by a very gradual recovery.  It is very important to develop that hunger for oxygen.   This is basically all that is involved.   I’m not sure why some of you out there think there is some sort of secret.  You could  have worked that out four yourselves. While I have no commercial interest in Buteyko therapy and am not a therapist myself,  I would urge asthmatics to attend a professionally run clinic.  They can give you a lot of additional advice and tips as well as help you deal with problems you may have in implementing the breathing scheme.    They give you a money back guarantee that your asthma will improve over the duration of the course according to defined criteria which they explain to you up-front. Perhaps I could just close here by announcing my disappointment at some of the venom coming from a few individuals.  I could perhaps single out Kathleen and Jeffrey in this regard.  I’m happy to answer questions in private or in public but I don’t need to put up with some of the vitriol that has been meted out.  Either you go away or I will. The other disappointment has been the lack of feedback we have received from those who have been sent information packages. Maybe they’re put off by  Jeffrey’s flames.  You don’t contribute much positive stuff to this group do you,  Jeff? Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer

Response:

that I’ve been pushing on this group for a while.  So far the criticism has come from people who have clearly not understood it and have’nt bothered to give it a try.  This is surprizing since it costs

Peter, the reason it’s difficult to understand is because it requires a HUGE amount of scientific knowledge to digest it. I’ve got as much background in physiology as most medical doctors (and more than some) and it’s going to take me some time to determine if the theory is sound – let alone an effective treatment. I have presented the theory several times before,  but I’m going to try one last time using words that even Jeffrey will understand.

. . stuff deleted . . have adapted his 30 page paper for emailing and will be happy to send it to anyone who wants a copy.  Your copy, Kathleen,  is in the E-mail.

For many people to accept a theory they need to see the original – not the advertisement.  Few of us believe summarized info from someone else.  So, I would say you haven’t posted the theory before.  I must thank you for making it available on the net. 3.  The consequence of this compensation is that there is an abnormal distiribution in the five various forms Carbon Dioxide takes in the Blood.    And since  Carbon Dioxide is involved one way or another in

So – if they took my blood – and you saying that the blood gases (CO2, HCO3, etc) would be different that a normal individual even when I am not having asthma problems? You recommend going to a clinic.  How about posting a couple addresses and phone numbers of those clinics?  That’s not advertising.  That way people who are seriously interested could write or call one.   My personal opinion is, that if you really beleive in a treatment, you should be open and willing to publicly provided all information surrounding the treatment/theory. Instructions, clinics, original references, names and addresses of other supporters (with their permission, of course).   I flame so harshly because you present your info in a manner that reminds me of con schemes.  People currently have to write YOU for more information.  You haven’t been answering questions regarding the theory on the usenet.  Those are big red flags that remind me of con artists. Perhaps I could just close here by announcing my disappointment at some of the venom coming from a few individuals.  I could perhaps single out Kathleen and Jeffrey in this regard.  I’m happy to answer questions in private or in public but I don’t need to put up with some of the vitriol that has been meted out.  Either you go away or I will.

You forgot Mark. Vemon arises when you don’t answer questions.  You haven’t answered some of my questions or requests previously.  I prefer public answers.     I’m not going away. they’re put off by  Jeffrey’s flames.  You don’t contribute much positive stuff to this group do you,  Jeff?

If you don’t like us and want us to quit criticizing your beliefs – then don’t contribute to flaming……   — Kathie Sindt

Response:

There has been some criticism of the over-breathing theory on asthma that I’ve been pushing on this group for a while.  So far the criticism has come from people who have clearly not understood it and have’nt bothered to give it a try.  This is surprizing since it costs nothing but a little effort.

I’m sorry, but this criticism won’t wash.  If you seriously stand behind your theory, you should be prepared to answer questions which point out weaknesses in your argument.  Claiming that "people who ask questions clearly have not understood it" is a truism and doesn’t their questions any less valid.  And why should people who see weakness in your argument have to "give it a try"?  If that were so, then we should all be taking all of the vitamin supplements, anti-oxidants, etc., which have been advertised on this group. The fact that it costs nothing is meaningless:  either it is worth trying or it isn’t. I have presented the theory several times before,  but I’m going to try one last time using words that even Jeffrey will understand. Infact I’m going to try and keep it as short as possible because Jeffrey seems to have a limted attention span.

Please refrain from name-calling on this newsgroup.  This is a support group for asthmatics.  If Jeffrey Fried has posed questions of your method, please either answer them or ignore them. The reason I’m pushing this theory is because it makes sense,  it explains things classical asthma thinking does’nt and above  all it works.  I’ve seen it work.  There  are people in this group who have tried it and have found it to work.  Those of you who are not interested, please go away.  There are people deriving benefit from this information.

Although your theory clearly makes sense to you, it would seem that it doesn’t make sense to some others.  Although people have claimed benefit from your method, it is not clear to me that the few anecdotes related offer enough evidence to dismiss the placebo effect.  And as for your request for others to go away, this is a Usenet forum. Anyone may followup to your postings with requests for clarification. And those of us who are skeptical, and fear that you might be raising people’s hopes with claims of a cure, and wonder whether your method justifies the investment of time, are also motivated by concern for asthmatics’ health. Perhaps I could just close here by announcing my disappointment at some of the venom coming from a few individuals.  I could perhaps single out Kathleen and Jeffrey in this regard.  I’m happy to answer questions in private or in public but I don’t need to put up with some of the vitriol that has been meted out.  Either you go away or I will.

I’m sorry that you feel that you have been targeted.  You of course have the option to killfile the individuals you mention.  However, the course of action I would recommend would be to ignore any venom and simply answer their questions.  If your answers are satisfactory, as they must be if your method is worth defending, then they can have nothing further to say. The other disappointment has been the lack of feedback we have received from those who have been sent information packages. Maybe they’re put off by  Jeffrey’s flames.  You don’t contribute much positive stuff to this group do you,  Jeff?

If by pointing out the weaknesses in the remedies that many have posted to this group, Jeffrey Fried has saved someone from trying a dangerous supplement or even just discouraged yet another advertiser from posting, I would call this a positive contribution to the group.  Your mileage may vary, of course. Pat —

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There has been some criticism of the over-breathing theory on asthma that I’ve been pushing on this group for a while.  So far the criticism has come from people who have clearly not understood it and have’nt bothered to give it a try.  This is surprizing since it costs nothing but a little effort. I have presented the theory several times before,  but I’m going to try one last time using words that even Jeffrey will understand. Infact I’m going to try and keep it as short as possible because Jeffrey seems to have a limted attention span. The theory was developed by Professor Buteyko ( a medical doctor) some forty years ago.  I made an announcement to the group recently that I have adapted his 30 page paper for emailing and will be happy to send it to anyone who wants a copy.  Your copy, Kathleen,  is in the E-mail. The reason I’m pushing this theory is because it makes sense,  it explains things classical asthma thinking does’nt and above  all it works.  I’ve seen it work.  There  are people in this group who have tried it and have found it to work.  Those of you who are not interested, please go away.  There are people deriving benefit from this information. Fundamentally the theory claims that asthma is a condition characterized by excessive breathing.  It is also  often exacerbated by the characteristic asthmatic allergic response. (You may need your dictionary here,  Jeffrey.)  Now you can argue about that as  much as you like.  But patients who have made an effort at cutting  down on their breathing have in the short term substantially reduced their dependence on bronchodilators,  and in the long term found a cure from their asthma.   Excessive long term breathing has the following consequence: 1.  The bronchioles constrict.  Why?   Well the lungs are involved in regulating the pH (acidity) of the blood.  They do this by controlling the amount of Carbon Dioxide released to the atmosphere.  When you breathe too much you blow off too much CO2.  The Bronchioles detect a rise in the pH and close up to conserve carbon dioxide,  because it is their function to act as regulators.   [Note Jeffrey,  the word OXYGEN has not appeared anywhere yet].  If you are always breathing too much then your bronchioles will always be pretty much constricted. 2.  The body has long term mechanisms  to compensate for breathing pathologies.  Notably the kidneys will take over the function of regulating the pH by controlling excretion of Bicarb and Hydrogen ions. 3.  The consequence of this compensation is that there is an abnormal distiribution in the five various forms Carbon Dioxide takes in the Blood.    And since  Carbon Dioxide is involved one way or another in nearly all metabolic processes,  all of them are affected. 4.  Buteyko shows in his paper (which is freely available) that the consequences are an oxygen inefficiency in metabolism,  leading the patient to develop a hunger for more oxygen.  [Note Jeffrey,  the asthmatic needs more OXYGEN].   5.  The consequence of (4.) is that the Overbreathing cycle maintains itself and the bronchiloles remain constricted. Depending on the degree of overbreathing that the patient has become used to,  the patinet’s tolerance to fluctuations in moment to moment breathing will be affected.  For example a little hyperventilation induced by anxiety,  stress etc,  could push him over the edge.  All that is needed is for a little more Carbon dioxide to be blown off and the bronchioles go into spasm.  Allergens would obviously have the same effect by contributing to an already swollen mucosa. This explains why you can’t just breathe more when you’re having an asthma attack.  The more you breathe the more CO2 you’re blowing off and the more your bronchioles will constrict. The solution then is to teach the body to breathe less.   This is done as follows: Firstly,  make sure you breathe through your nose.  Your nose is part of your respiratory system.  If you breathe too much  your nasal linings will swell and become even more sensitive to allergens.  So what you need to do is learn to stifle your breathing to the absolute bare minimum.  You need to develop a hunger for oxygen.   When you’ve been doing this for a while you’ll  find that your nasal passages open up.   For stubborn cases you may have to do Breath holding exercises,  but these must be done IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR DOCTOR as they could present a danger to patients with other conditions such as heart, high BP etc. They basically involve holding your breath for as long as possible at the end of expiration,  followed by a very gradual recovery.  It is very important to develop that hunger for oxygen.   This is basically all that is involved.   I’m not sure why some of you out there think there is some sort of secret.  You could  have worked that out four yourselves. While I have no commercial interest in Buteyko therapy and am not a therapist myself,  I would urge asthmatics to attend a professionally run clinic.  They can give you a lot of additional advice and tips as well as help you deal with problems you may have in implementing the breathing scheme.    They give you a money back guarantee that your asthma will improve over the duration of the course according to defined criteria which they explain to you up-front. Perhaps I could just close here by announcing my disappointment at some of the venom coming from a few individuals.  I could perhaps single out Kathleen and Jeffrey in this regard.  I’m happy to answer questions in private or in public but I don’t need to put up with some of the vitriol that has been meted out.  Either you go away or I will. The other disappointment has been the lack of feedback we have received from those who have been sent information packages. Maybe they’re put off by  Jeffrey’s flames.  You don’t contribute much positive stuff to this group do you,  Jeff? Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer

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