Question:

[snip] As for myself I am not looking to be in the state of these great masters who can control minute vibrations in the world. I’m not quite sure what you mean by "control minute vibrations in the world". If you mean, maintaining samadhi(according to Yogananda’s defintion), as one goes about their day to day business, that’s the primary diference in a way between sabikalpa and nirbikapa samandhi: one is so "blissed out" in the samadhi state that they literally haven’t learned to move about physically yet; the other they are mobile and can bring the bliss with them. If you mean "control minute vibrations" in some other way, then you’ll need to clarify…..

I was referring to constant mystical experiences. As I progress in my yoga I often find myself pulling back when things get a little weird out there. An example is a process sometimes called witnessing – when I am sleeping with awareness. It is pleasant enough but I just as soon be unconscious when I am sleeping.  Just too weird. Lahiri Mahasaya, guru of Yogananda’s guru(Sri Yukeswarji)was not a monastic and carried out "worldy duties" certainly with no detriment from the samadhi state.

He lived in turn of the century India. I don’t know how well he would have gone over as a highly paid 21st Century Hollywood film editor. This state would be of great detriment to my family and the people who depend on me in my career. I am more concerned about how my yoga [snip] I think there’s a difference between respect AND credibility.I can certainly respect some individuals yet not find their "path" credible.for example, if someone WERE to say that THEIR path was Silva Mind Control, I don’t consider it a spiritual path yet I respect individual taking the training for its psychological benefits. Jim R

So true. But I must say I draw the line of respect at people who listen to Dr. Laura for psychological benefits. ;<)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is all new to me so I have a few questions: [big snip] This is the state I always thought was simply samadhi. HHS2, If you use Paramhansa Yogananda’s(SRF) definition, then the above is correct. the problem here is partly semantics and partly, that there are a lot of readers in this news group, some new to spiritual development and others who have had a "path" for sometime. Of the ones who have had a path, some will "correct" you if its doesn’t match "their teachers" definition. I for one ,will tell you up front that I’m "biased" and the teacher from whom those biases are based. Secondly, even among the several who have had establised paths in

this (SNIP) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – newsgroup, each may not recognize the other’s teacher to be a spiritual master. for example, Jodyr, a contributor in this group is a "student" of Ramana Maharashi(sp?)who I don’t consider to be any more spiritually developed than "the man on the moon". conversely, Jodyr doesn’t think MY spiritual teacher, Yogananda, to be a spiritual master. and he says that no "human" has ever been omnipresent and omniscient and that the type of yoga practiced doesn’t matter . I of course recogize Yogananda to be a avatar and a juvan mukta, which brings with it those qualities of omnipresent and omniscience. I also recognize that there is a cause and effect link between the practice of certain yogas(i.e Raja/Kriya) and nirvikalpa samadhi. Neither of us is realized(at least I KNOW I’m not, as wonderfull as it would be). so, you get debate based partly on semantics, and partly on who’s teacher is recognized as beng a credible spiritual master. Jim Rapson Houston TX SRF devotee..

(SNIP) Thank you for the explanation. I try to be open to all groups. As I see these contradictions and small distinctions between groups it only bolsters my position to stay independent and serve "the doctrine of no doctrine". I maintain that direct meditation experience is enough to support understanding. You mention how neither of us is realized. As for myself I am not looking to be in the state of these great masters who can control minute vibrations in the world.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by "control minute vibrations in the world". If you mean, maintaining samadhi(according to Yogananda’s defintion), as one goes about their day to day business, that’s the primary diference in a way between sabikalpa and nirbikapa samandhi: one is so "blissed out" in the samadhi state that they literally haven’t learned to move about physically yet; the other they are mobile and can bring the bliss with them. If you mean "control minute vibrations" in some other way, then you’ll need to clarify….. Lahiri Mahasaya, guru of Yogananda’s guru(Sri Yukeswarji)was not a monastic and carried out "worldy duties" certainly with no detriment from the samadhi state.  This state would be of great detriment to my family and the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – people who depend on me in my career. I am more concerned about how my yoga practice influences my activities in the world. In reading Autobiography of a Yogi I identify with Yogananda’s father, the successful banker and devout familyman. In this way I am realized. Or "realizing" as I really think that realization is a process not an end. That said I have really enjoyed the SRF gardens off Sunset on LA’s westside, The Autobiography of a Yogi. And I must say there is a lot to learn from SRF and I know that Yogananda has inspired many on the path. Why can’t the competing groups respect the differences and celebrate the similarities?

I think there’s a difference between respect AND credibility.I can certainly respect some individuals yet not find their "path" credible.for example, if someone WERE to say that THEIR path was Silva Mind Control, I don’t consider it a spiritual path yet I respect individual taking the training for its psychological benefits. Jim R Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is all new to me so I have a few questions: [big snip] This is the state I always thought was simply samadhi. HHS2, If you use Paramhansa Yogananda’s(SRF) definition, then the above is correct. the problem here is partly semantics and partly, that there are a lot of readers in this news group, some new to spiritual development and others who have had a "path" for sometime. Of the ones who have had a path, some will "correct" you if its doesn’t match "their teachers" definition. I for one ,will tell you up front that I’m "biased" and the teacher from whom those biases are based. Secondly, even among the several who have had establised paths in this newsgroup, each may not recognize the other’s teacher to be a spiritual master. for example, Jodyr, a contributor in this group is a "student" of Ramana Maharashi(sp?)who I don’t consider to be any more spiritually developed than "the man on the moon". conversely, Jodyr doesn’t think MY spiritual teacher, Yogananda, to be a spiritual master. and he says that no "human" has ever been omnipresent and omniscient and that the type of yoga practiced doesn’t matter . I of course recogize Yogananda to be a avatar and a juvan mukta, which brings with it those qualities of omnipresent and omniscience. I also recognize that there is a cause and effect link between the practice of certain yogas(i.e Raja/Kriya) and nirvikalpa samadhi. Neither of us is realized(at least I KNOW I’m not, as wonderfull as it would be). so, you get debate based partly on semantics, and partly on who’s teacher is recognized as beng a credible spiritual master. Jim Rapson Houston TX SRF devotee..

Thank you for the explanation. I try to be open to all groups. As I see these contradictions and small distinctions between groups it only bolsters my position to stay independent and serve "the doctrine of no doctrine". I maintain that direct meditation experience is enough to support understanding. You mention how neither of us is realized. As for myself I am not looking to be in the state of these great masters who can control minute vibrations in the world. This state would be of great detriment to my family and the people who depend on me in my career. I am more concerned about how my yoga practice influences my activities in the world. In reading Autobiography of a Yogi I identify with Yogananda’s father, the successful banker and devout familyman. In this way I am realized. Or "realizing" as I really think that realization is a process not an end. That said I have really enjoyed the SRF gardens off Sunset on LA’s westside, The Autobiography of a Yogi. And I must say there is a lot to learn from SRF and I know that Yogananda has inspired many on the path. Why can’t the competing groups respect the differences and celebrate the similarities?

Response:

This is all new to me so I have a few questions: I have been operating with the understanding that samadhi is a "state in which the aspirent is one with the object of his meditation, the Supreme Spirit governing the universe".  (BKS Iyengar) I have not seen samadhi referred to as an absorption. Where did you learn of this many types of Samadhi’s?  Who is your teacher?

(snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I mean this to only find your sources. I ask this question with great respect to your teacher(s). wrote Samadhi is any kind of suspension, absorption  or similar state of mind Eg When mind becomes extremely restless because of crude propensities, then the restless mind tends towards only one object. While tending towards one object, it gets itself concentrated all of a sudden therein. That absorption of mind into that object is transitory. This state is known as Ksipta.

(snip)SCROLL down to HHS2 salutation……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might have noticed in your personal life that if you come in clash with a person or if you become angry with him, throughout the day the picture of that individual repeatedly comes to your mind and you fail to concentrate your mind on any object other than that individual. This state of mind is Ks’ipta Samadhi. I understand this state. I would think that an agitated state would take one away from samadhi. In order to get in this agitated state don’t you have to operating from ego? Then another is Murha. Where there is attachment to or fear from some object (judged minutely fear is included in attachment ), the object even in that case repeatedly creeps into mind. As for instance, a man of Gazipur working in Bombay is repeatedly haunted with the idea that he should have his office just like the one at Gazipur. Gazipur all the time haunts his mind. It means that the object comes to mind very easily, This state is called Murha. Again through my journey *detachment* was been my greatest friend, especially in incidences of office politics. On this road to samadhi isn’t attachment an obstacle?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another one is Viksipta. Viksipta is Abhavatmika Samadhi. Suppose the mind is absorbed in one object. The next moment it shifts to another object, then to the next one and so on and so forth till the mind gets exhausted and ceases to function. This is known as Viks’ipta Samadhi. You know that in a lullaby the baby is given one picture, the next moment another picture and so on and so forth, till the child’s mind is exhausted and it takes recourse to sleep. This is Viks’ipta Samadhi. Next is Ekagra. Because of the ideation of a particular object, the mind is concentrated at a particular point. This is known as Ekagra Samadhi. Eka =1- Graha = to grab. Then Nirodha means to withdraw the vibrations (Gati or the propensities of mind) and to direct them to the objectless ( Avisaya ) i.e., to withdraw the mind from the objectivities. This is Nirodha. From my understanding this is pratyahara. The fifth stage of yoga. Thus Yoga is Yogash citta vrtti Nirodhah i.e., the Nirodha (channelisation) of all the Vrttis (propensities of mind). Or, to put it simply: controlling the Vrtti’s of citta, i.e. the thinking. That is what yoga is about: gaining control. Perhaps gaining control by letting go? Also, after continued spiritual practice when I feeling gets metamorphosed into Macrocosmic I-feeling, the Citta (objective mind) of the microcosmic mind merges in its cause and so, when in the introversive momentum the Citta merges, the state of all-pervasiveness constitutes the State of Transcendentality or Savikalpa Samadhi (The trance of determinate absorption). After the merger of the sense of ego (I-feeling) in the Citishakti (Consciousness), this in the State of objectlessness or Nirvikalpa Samadhi (The trance of indeterminate absorption or total suspension of the mind). This is the state I always thought was simply samadhi.

HHS2, If you use Paramhansa Yogananda’s(SRF) definition, then the above is correct. the problem here is partly semantics and partly, that there are a lot of readers in this news group, some new to spiritual development and others who have had a "path" for sometime. Of the ones who have had a path, some will "correct" you if its doesn’t match "their teachers" definition. I for one ,will tell you up front that I’m "biased" and the teacher from whom those biases are based. Secondly, even among the several who have had establised paths in this newsgroup, each may not recognize the other’s teacher to be a spiritual master. for example, Jodyr, a contributor in this group is a "student" of Ramana Maharashi(sp?)who I don’t consider to be any more spiritually developed than "the man on the moon". conversely, Jodyr doesn’t think MY spiritual teacher, Yogananda, to be a spiritual master. and he says that no "human" has ever been omnipresent and omniscient and that the type of yoga practiced doesn’t matter . I of course recogize Yogananda to be a avatar and a juvan mukta, which brings with it those qualities of omnipresent and omniscience. I also recognize that there is a cause and effect link between the practice of certain yogas(i.e Raja/Kriya) and nirvikalpa samadhi. Neither of us is realized(at least I KNOW I’m not, as wonderfull as it would be). so, you get debate based partly on semantics, and partly on who’s teacher is recognized as beng a credible spiritual master. Jim Rapson Houston TX SRF devotee.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Due to the absence of any guna or binding principle this state is called the state of Objectlessness. This state is verbally inexpressible because…. Basic and classic yoga. Yes. Words cannot describe it because of its innate nature. Nice and detailed explanation, but that was not the issue… Nowadays I only explain when directly asked about something. Only very few seem really interested, or capable of understanding, from direct experience. OM Shanti I am always open to learning what mythologies others ascribe to their experience. It furthers my intellectual appreciation of the state.

Before you buy.

Response:

This is all new to me so I have a few questions: I have been operating with the understanding that samadhi is a "state in which the aspirent is one with the object of his meditation, the Supreme Spirit governing the universe".  (BKS Iyengar)

Hmm. Yes. I know Iyengars words about it…. Basically he is right. A detailed explanation can be found in the Patanjali Sutra’s. In this book the states <ahem of Samadhi being described are different stages on the way to complete Union, where there is no more movement, not of the mind, not of the body. This is referred to as Nirbija samadhi. (without even a seed of thought) Other stages being called different sabija samadhi’s, still have traces of thought or seed. This is when there still is the idea of the I that is in samadhi and of the Subject of the samadhi and of the Samadhi itself. When those 3 finally cease to exist . . . I have not seen samadhi referred to as an absorption.

Well it could be. Where did you learn of this many types of Samadhi’s?

At the yogaschool where we were learning about Raja yoga, among others. One of the textbooks we used is the Sutra’s from Patanjali. Also the Hatha Yoga Pradipika sheds some light on it. Who is your teacher?

Is that important? His name is Ajita I mean this to only find your sources. I ask this question with great respect to your teacher(s).

He is one of the very, very few who earned and deserved respect. I found that (at least for me) he is a very good Teacher. OM Shanti

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is all new to me so I have a few questions: I have been operating with the understanding that samadhi is a "state in which the aspirent is one with the object of his meditation, the Supreme Spirit governing the universe".  (BKS Iyengar) Hmm. Yes. I know Iyengars words about it…. Basically he is right. A detailed explanation can be found in the Patanjali Sutra’s. In this book the states <ahem of Samadhi being described are different stages on the way to complete Union, where there is no more movement, not of the mind, not of the body. This is referred to as Nirbija samadhi. (without even a seed of thought) Other stages being called different sabija samadhi’s, still have traces of thought or seed. This is when there still is the idea of the I that is in samadhi and of the Subject of the samadhi and of the Samadhi itself. When those 3 finally cease to exist . . . I have not seen samadhi referred to as an absorption. Well it could be. Where did you learn of this many types of Samadhi’s? At the yogaschool where we were learning about Raja yoga, among others. One of the textbooks we used is the Sutra’s from Patanjali. Also the Hatha Yoga Pradipika sheds some light on it. Who is your teacher? Is that important? His name is Ajita I mean this to only find your sources. I ask this question with great respect to your teacher(s). He is one of the very, very few who earned and deserved respect. I found that (at least for me) he is a very good Teacher. OM Shanti

Thank you. I see now that it is time to poke my nose once again into the great books. Every time we draw something new.

Response:

This is all new to me so I have a few questions: I have been operating with the understanding that samadhi is a "state in which the aspirent is one with the object of his meditation, the Supreme Spirit governing the universe".  (BKS Iyengar) I have not seen samadhi referred to as an absorption. Where did you learn of this many types of Samadhi’s?  Who is your teacher? I mean this to only find your sources. I ask this question with great respect to your teacher(s). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Samadhi is any kind of suspension, absorption  or similar state of mind Eg When mind becomes extremely restless because of crude propensities, then the restless mind tends towards only one object. While tending towards one object, it gets itself concentrated all of a sudden therein. That absorption of mind into that object is transitory. This state is known as Ksipta. You might have noticed in your personal life that if you come in clash with a person or if you become angry with him, throughout the day the picture of that individual repeatedly comes to your mind and you fail to concentrate your mind on any object other than that individual. This state of mind is Ks’ipta Samadhi.

I understand this state. I would think that an agitated state would take one away from samadhi. In order to get in this agitated state don’t you have to operating from ego? Then another is Murha. Where there is attachment to or fear from some object (judged minutely fear is included in attachment ), the object even in that case repeatedly creeps into mind. As for instance, a man of Gazipur working in Bombay is repeatedly haunted with the idea that he should have his office just like the one at Gazipur. Gazipur all the time haunts his mind. It means that the object comes to mind very easily, This state is called Murha.

Again through my journey *detachment* was been my greatest friend, especially in incidences of office politics. On this road to samadhi isn’t attachment an obstacle? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another one is Viksipta. Viksipta is Abhavatmika Samadhi. Suppose the mind is absorbed in one object. The next moment it shifts to another object, then to the next one and so on and so forth till the mind gets exhausted and ceases to function. This is known as Viks’ipta Samadhi. You know that in a lullaby the baby is given one picture, the next moment another picture and so on and so forth, till the child’s mind is exhausted and it takes recourse to sleep. This is Viks’ipta Samadhi. Next is Ekagra. Because of the ideation of a particular object, the mind is concentrated at a particular point. This is known as Ekagra Samadhi. Eka =1- Graha = to grab. Then Nirodha means to withdraw the vibrations (Gati or the propensities of mind) and to direct them to the objectless ( Avisaya ) i.e., to withdraw the mind from the objectivities. This is Nirodha.

From my understanding this is pratyahara. The fifth stage of yoga. Thus Yoga is Yogash citta vrtti Nirodhah i.e., the Nirodha (channelisation) of all the Vrttis (propensities of mind). Or, to put it simply: controlling the Vrtti’s of citta, i.e. the thinking. That is what yoga is about: gaining control.

Perhaps gaining control by letting go? Also, after continued spiritual practice when I feeling gets metamorphosed into Macrocosmic I-feeling, the Citta (objective mind) of the microcosmic mind merges in its cause and so, when in the introversive momentum the Citta merges, the state of all-pervasiveness constitutes the State of Transcendentality or Savikalpa Samadhi (The trance of determinate absorption). After the merger of the sense of ego (I-feeling) in the Citishakti (Consciousness), this in the State of objectlessness or Nirvikalpa Samadhi (The trance of indeterminate absorption or total suspension of the mind).

This is the state I always thought was simply samadhi. Due to the absence of any guna or binding principle this state is called the state of Objectlessness. This state is verbally inexpressible because…. Basic and classic yoga. Yes. Words cannot describe it because of its innate nature. Nice and detailed explanation, but that was not the issue… Nowadays I only explain when directly asked about something. Only very few seem really interested, or capable of understanding, from direct experience. OM Shanti

I am always open to learning what mythologies others ascribe to their experience. It furthers my intellectual appreciation of the state.

Response:

Samadhi is any kind of suspension, absorption  or similar state of mind Eg When mind becomes extremely restless because of crude propensities, then the restless mind tends towards only one object. While tending towards one object, it gets itself concentrated all of a sudden therein. That absorption of mind into that object is transitory. This state is known as Ksipta. You might have noticed in your personal life that if you come in clash with a person or if you become angry with him, throughout the day the picture of that individual repeatedly comes to your mind and you fail to concentrate your mind on any object other than that individual. This state of mind is Ks’ipta Samadhi. Then another is Murha. Where there is attachment to or fear from some object (judged minutely fear is included in attachment ), the object even in that case repeatedly creeps into mind. As for instance, a man of Gazipur working in Bombay is repeatedly haunted with the idea that he should have his office just like the one at Gazipur. Gazipur all the time haunts his mind. It means that the object comes to mind very easily, This state is called Murha. Another one is Viksipta. Viksipta is Abhavatmika Samadhi. Suppose the mind is absorbed in one object. The next moment it shifts to another object, then to the next one and so on and so forth till the mind gets exhausted and ceases to function. This is known as Viks’ipta Samadhi. You know that in a lullaby the baby is given one picture, the next moment another picture and so on and so forth, till the child’s mind is exhausted and it takes recourse to sleep. This is Viks’ipta Samadhi. Next is Ekagra. Because of the ideation of a particular object, the mind is concentrated at a particular point. This is known as Ekagra Samadhi. Eka =1- Graha = to grab. Then Nirodha means to withdraw the vibrations (Gati or the propensities of mind) and to direct them to the objectless ( Avisaya ) i.e., to withdraw the mind from the objectivities. This is Nirodha. Thus Yoga is Yogash citta vrtti Nirodhah i.e., the Nirodha (channelisation) of all the Vrttis (propensities of mind). Or, to put it simply: controlling the Vrtti’s of citta, i.e. the thinking. That is what yoga is about: gaining control. Also, after continued spiritual practice when I feeling gets metamorphosed into Macrocosmic I-feeling, the Citta (objective mind) of the microcosmic mind merges in its cause and so, when in the introversive momentum the Citta merges, the state of all-pervasiveness constitutes the State of Transcendentality or Savikalpa Samadhi (The trance of determinate absorption). After the merger of the sense of ego (I-feeling) in the Citishakti (Consciousness), this in the State of objectlessness or Nirvikalpa Samadhi (The trance of indeterminate absorption or total suspension of the mind). Due to the absence of any guna or binding principle this state is called the state of Objectlessness. This state is verbally inexpressible because…. Basic and classic yoga. Yes. Words cannot describe it because of its innate nature. Nice and detailed explanation, but that was not the issue… Nowadays I only explain when directly asked about something. Only very few seem really interested, or capable of understanding, from direct experience. OM Shanti

Response:

"Dharmadeva"  , well explained. Tell me , do you think that these states of the mind are curious properties of the mind or have a deeper meaning to them?

LOL — Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh Kundalini Yoga: http://3ho.home.pages.de/ alt.yoga FAQ:    http://members.xoom.com/altyoga/

Response:

HHS: Now that sounds strange to me, to have different levels of Samadhi – like if there would be different levels of truth. Obviously you do not understand the meaning of samadhi.

You are adressing the wrong person. I was having a conversation with HHS (Hari Har Singh), about the different names of Samadhi representing the different "stages" on the path to Union. Do not jump to conclusions before reading carefully my friend. OM shanti

Response:

"Dharmadeva"  , well explained. Tell me , do you think that these states of the mind are curious properties of the mind or have a deeper meaning to them? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HHS: Now that sounds strange to me, to have different levels of Samadhi – like if there would be different levels of truth. Obviously you do not understand the meaning of samadhi. Samadhi is any kind of suspension, absorption  or similar state of mind Eg When mind becomes extremely restless because of crude propensities, then the restless mind tends towards only one object. While tending towards one object, it gets itself concentrated all of a sudden therein. That absorption of mind into that object is transitory. This state is known as Ks’ipta. You might have noticed in your personal life that if you come in clash with a person or if you become angry with him, throughout the day the picture of that individual repeatedly comes to your mind and you fail to concentrate your mind on any object other than that individual. This state of mind is Ks’ipta Sama’dhi.      Then another is Mu’r'ha. Where there is attachment to or fear from some object (judged minutely fear is included in attachment ), the object even in that case repeatedly creeps into mind. As for instance, a man of Gazipur working in Bombay is repeatedly haunted with the idea that he should have his office just like the one at Gazipur. Gazipur all the time haunts his mind. It means that the object comes to mind very easily, This state is called Mu’r'ha. Another one is Viks’ipta. Viks’ipta is Abha’va’tmika’ Sama’dhi. Suppose the mind is absorbed in one object. The next moment it shifts to another object, then to the next one and so on and so forth till the mind gets exhausted and ceases to function. This is known as Viks’ipta Sama’dhi. You know that in a lullaby the baby is given one picture, the next moment another picture and so on and so forth, till the child’s mind is exhausted and it takes recourse to sleep. This is Viks’ipta Sama’dhi. Next is Eka’gra. Because of the ideation of a particular object, the mind is concentrated at a particular point. This is known as Eka’gra Sama’dhi. Then Nirodha means to withdraw the vibrations (Gati or the propensities of mind) and to direct them to the objectless ( Avis’aya ) i.e., to withdraw the mind from the objectivities. This is Nirodha.      Thus Yoga is ‘Yogashcittavrtti Nirodhah’ i.e., the Nirodha (channelisation) of all the Vrttis (propensities of mind). Also, after continued spiritual practice when I feeling gets metamorphosed into Macrocosmic I-feeling, the Citta (objective mind) of the microcosmic mind merges in its cause and so, when in the introversive momentum the Citta merges, the state of all-pervasiveness constitutes the State of Transcendentality or Savikalpa Samadhi (The trance of determinate absorption). After the merger of the sense of ego (I-feeling) in the Citishakti (Consciousness), this in the State of Objectlessness or Nirvikalpa Samadhi (The trance of indeterminate absorption or total suspension of the mind). Due to the absence of any guna or binding principle this state is called the state of Objectlessness. This state is verbally inexpressible because…. Basic and classic yoga.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … The ‘highest’ Samadhi is Nirbija Samadhi. "This truth is truer than that truth". But there is only 1. Everything else, mind + Ego-, competition-stuff. ….Yashna called – had to change nappies So let me finish about samadhi

LOL You do this between the nappies changing? Very good! That too belongs to Life! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Patanjali Sutra’s give information about that in Part III sutra 1,2,3 & 4 from meditation to samadhi part I sutra 17, 18 (a)samprajnata samadhi part I-41 — 51 part III 9,10,11 & 12 To be brief: From Dharana (concentration) you enter Dhyana (meditation) and from there you could find yourself in samprajnata:- savitarka / nirvitarka samadhi vicara: savicara / nirvicara Sananda Sasmita These are all states where a certain ‘feeling’ still remains: (and remember that whatener *word* is used, it cannot correctly describe it, because this matter is beyond words…) a subtle feeling of the world (vitarka) with seed or without, a subtle feeling of  (vicara) with seed or without, a subtle feeling of complete Bliss, (sananda), a subtle feeling of ‘to BE’. Just being. Still there is the ‘I’ and the ‘outside’ (seed represents this) When even this ceases to exist, it is nirbija… OM Shanti

Ah, ok Paul thank you for describing it – I think I do now understand. It’s about the process the consciousness goes through on it’s way to Samadhi – right? Yes. All ’stages’ exept the last one still have some way of duality in it; there is the one who experiences, the subject of exoeriene and the experiencing… Once that too vanishes there are no more traces of duality or ego or duality… It’s not about different truths but about the different stages of receptioning the truth. As Ken Wilber said – "das Spektrum des Bewu

Question:

I have always gotten cramps in my feet.  I have found that the yoga does help it quite a bit, but it took some time.  You do want to take care of your feet as much as possible for a little while.  For some people, soaking them in hot water is good, but what I do is massage the bottom with a golf ball.  You can put a lot of pressure on the bottom of the foot with the ball by placing the ball on a carpeted surface (on a hardwood or linoleum floor the ball will go flying out from under your foot) and putting as much weight on it as you can tolerate.  It will hurt at first, but if you work past the pain it really feels good.  This is also good for doing reflexology on your feet if you are familiar at all with the certain pressure points and how they correspond to different parts of the body.  I have also gotten arch supports for my shoes, but don’t get the cheap ones because they don’t help at all. Stick with the Dr. Scholls or other reputable brands.  Hope this helps. Charles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -none tells of terrible foot pain: For what it’s worth: I went through several bouts of terrible foot pain and I seemed to have solved it by taking Vitamin E.  And in fairly large amounts.  I was literally munching on those oil-capsules. Sure enough, it cleared up the pain all three times it happened.  I have no idea why this seemed to work or if it would work for you. All I know is that it seemed to have worked for me. As a side note: A Rolfer once told me that in a previous life I had either been hung by my feet or had my feet cut off.  THAT didn’t stop the pain, however. ) Volfie

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I started taking yoga classes in October -99, 3 days a week. In December my feet began to hurt during class. Then i sort of *lost it* during xmas and new years (sigh), but I started taking classes again this week. And boy, do my feet hurt!! I have trouble doing any asanas standing up. I have been thinking about what may cause this, but I really don’t have a clue. I have not changed anything that I am aware of, no new shoes, my feet are not "flat", and I walk a lot daily. Maybe I am too tensed? Maybe I am doing something wrong? I would appreciate any help! -aurora

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        Ask your teacher to observe your standing stance. Chances are you put weight only on one part of your foot instead of balancing it on the whole foot. This can lead to discomfort. Let us know what you learn. peace, sandra

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none tells of terrible foot pain: For what it’s worth: I went through several bouts of terrible foot pain and I seemed to have solved it by taking Vitamin E.  And in fairly large amounts.  I was literally munching on those oil-capsules. Sure enough, it cleared up the pain all three times it happened.  I have no idea why this seemed to work or if it would work for you. All I know is that it seemed to have worked for me. As a side note: A Rolfer once told me that in a previous life I had either been hung by my feet or had my feet cut off.  THAT didn’t stop the pain, however. ) Volfie

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I went through several bouts of terrible foot pain and I seemed to have solved it by taking Vitamin E.

This is very interesting! I think I am going to try it! As a side note: A Rolfer once told me that in a previous life I had either been hung by my feet or had my feet cut off.  THAT didn’t stop the pain, however. )

Oh my god!! I always thought I was some kind of *princess*, or maybe a *rat* (I love rats) – but being the kind of person who gets her feet cut off – never!! Thanks anyhow. ) -aurora

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Ask your teacher to observe your standing stance. Chances are you put weight only on one part of your foot instead of balancing it on the whole foot.

You know Sandra, this is what I suspect myself. I told my teacher about my feet and she told me to take it "easy" a couple of classes to see what happens. I just came home from today’s class, my feet did not ache as they did on Tuesday. I will sure ask her to check my stance when I see her tomorrow. I will let you know! Thanks! -aurora

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Oh my god!! I always thought I was some kind of *princess*, or maybe a *rat* (I love rats) – but being the kind of person who gets her feet cut off – never!! Thanks anyhow. ) -aurora

Ah, but maybe you were a princess with tiny, little bound feet!  Maybe it IS a reincarnation echo.  (or whatever those things are called. Volfie

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I started taking yoga classes in October -99, 3 days a week. In December my feet began to hurt during class. Then i sort of *lost it* during xmas and new years (sigh), but I started taking classes again this week. And boy, do my feet hurt!! I have trouble doing any asanas standing up. I have been thinking about what may cause this, but I really don’t have a clue. I have not changed anything that I am aware of, no new shoes, my feet are not "flat", and I walk a lot daily. Maybe I am too tensed? Maybe I am doing something wrong? I would appreciate any help! -aurora

Tell your teacher. Ask for help. Try to have lots of awareness in your feet when you do yoga. Tadasana, mountain pose is a useful place to start. Which part of your foot hurts or the whole thing? Weight should be distributed all over the foot-not on the front, not on the heel, not on outside or inside at once. Everyone has ways they use their body habitually and the opportunity is to tune into what is going on inside the foot with moving it in different ways. Notice which poses your feet hurt the worst, and speak up in class as soon as they do. Don’t be shy! I hope you learn more and are able to find how to do yoga that isn’t so painful. My best wishes, Shannon B.

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Thank you for your kind response! Tell your teacher.

I did. And she is concerned. I am pretty sure I am doing something wrong and I will ask her to look at my stance tomorrow.  Try to have lots of awareness in your feet when you do yoga.

I will. Tadasana, mountain pose is a useful place to start.

Yes. This is actually one of the poses that *disturbes* my feet. And also the Warrior pose. I think I will practice them at home – with awareness in my feet. Which part of your foot hurts or the whole thing?

On top of both feet, kind of along the tiny bones and also underneath my feet, in the middle part. Feels more like the bones are aching, not the muscles. I hope you learn more and are able to find how to do yoga that isn’t so painful.

I like it sooo much! I will do this the rest of my life! Thank you again! -aurora

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Ah, but maybe you were a princess with tiny, little bound feet!

-aurora

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Question:

Butterfly Vision Lo! In a moment i did truly see what appeared at first as a tiny moth but it appeared to get closer lo — it’s wings! translucent and irridescent and as it came even closer I saw! It became huge — all encompassing and thus brought me into her heart took me away with her wings I flew with her and was made whole again Lo — it is a beauteous thing

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Myee Butter-Fly You are sensitive and kind! I will faithfully practice — was stuck but am becoming a little more loose! Yes, it may be too much heat and sitali already feels better. I press down with a small stick to help curl the tongue. Was bloat, burning, and ainful  – I fast for a day, but then it starts again… May have to do a longer fast? Sordarshan chakra kriya is very powerful and I have not yet been able to practice for longer than 6 minutes — yet! It wakes up strong currents! Maybe too powerful for me now? Will be gone to the mountain woods the next couple of days — will dig deeper into it (avoiding stepping on any bugs). I will listen and love more deeply or so I intend! Sat Chit Ananda

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Right on dude, now your talking. Rock the boat rock the boat baby! Yours-Someone,somewhere in England.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what does sahaj mean? Sahaj is Sanskrit. Generally it means innate, natural, and spontaneously arisen. It refers to the flowing state which exists when the conditioning is dropped — when pure objectiveness and pure subjectiveness are realized as a synchronized free flowing unity. For the Maha Siddhas sahaj connotes the flow of energy in the sushumna. Sahaj can also be interpreted as coming from the Sahajayana School of Medieval India. I studied a specific method called Sahaj Yog from a disciple of Swami Kripaluananda. It is based on letting the shakti and intelligence behind shakti move us spontaneously during meditation (or for that matter during asana practice as well). A little of this is covered in "Obscure Religious Cults" by S.B. Dasgupta and the "Yoga Tradition" by Georg Feuerstein. A great book is "The Science of Meditation" by Swami Yogacharya Kripalvananda, Kayavarohan, Gujarat, 1977, but it is very difficult to obtain. These songs are all from the great Eclectic Medieval Indian period which consider the body with its wisdom channels, the tantric transformational mandala while the time is always set in the indigenous NOW. Song 40 — Kanhapa "Whatever is the sphere of mind is utter delusion; the volume of treatises are a rosary of falsehood. Say how simultaneously-arisen Bliss (sahaja or Supreme Gnosis) can be spoken of to him whose body, speech (energy), and mind are not internally united. Falsely the guru instructs the disciple; how can he/she speak of that which transcends the range of speech? Those who speak thereof are hypocrites … the guru is dumb, the disciple deaf. How shall Kanha speak of the Jewell of the Jina..like the deaf instructed by the dumb! collophon: Thus though perhaps seemingly far away or close at hand, the true guru provides the true disciple with Great Bliss (mahasukha) through the power of passion. Song 38 by Sarahapa "The body is the little boat, the mind is the oar; hold firmly the helm in the form of the word of the True guru. Making the mind firm by the union of vajra and lotus in the middle of the ocean of existence, hold steady the boat. One cannot reach the other shore (nirvana) by any other means. The boatsman tows the boat by the means of a good rope; having abandoned the boat go instantly to the island of great bliss without any effort (in the simultaneously arisen bliss), not otherwise. On the path (central column or avadhuti) there exist dangers as well as the mighty robbers of Sun and Moon (pingala/ida or lalana/rasana), therein all are submerged in the duality of separateness and sense objects of the ocean of existence (samsara). But following along the bank (the central column or avadhuti) the bodhicitta vajra rises upwards in the strong current of great passion. Here, Saraha says, it enters the Sky (the island of the immaculate chakra). " There exist also other schools having varied practices that are also called sahaj yoga.  Also Ramana Maharshi and others consider sahaj samadhi — spontaneously arising samadhi, very highly. So the word sahaj, can mean different things to different people. For me it is the practice of honoring this innate and dynamic intelligence within myself and all things in its continuity (outside of linear time) all the time. Of course I fail miserably — but such failure is a great joy as relative to stasis. Sometimes I am moved by IT — a little and I feel whole, complete, and fulfilled — when i am on the path which calls me! Love

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CAMBELL ON RELIGION.. IS WHAT "ELVIS"  IS TO PAINTINGS ON BLACK  VELVET..

Response:

what does sahaj mean?

Sahaj is Sanskrit. Generally it means innate, natural, and spontaneously arisen. It refers to the flowing state which exists when the conditioning is dropped — when pure objectiveness and pure subjectiveness are realized as a synchronized free flowing unity. For the Maha Siddhas sahaj connotes the flow of energy in the sushumna. Sahaj can also be interpreted as coming from the Sahajayana School of Medieval India. I studied a specific method called Sahaj Yog from a disciple of Swami Kripaluananda. It is based on letting the shakti and intelligence behind shakti move us spontaneously during meditation (or for that matter during asana practice as well). A little of this is covered in "Obscure Religious Cults" by S.B. Dasgupta and the "Yoga Tradition" by Georg Feuerstein. A great book is "The Science of Meditation" by Swami Yogacharya Kripalvananda, Kayavarohan, Gujarat, 1977, but it is very difficult to obtain. These songs are all from the great Eclectic Medieval Indian period which consider the body with its wisdom channels, the tantric transformational mandala while the time is always set in the indigenous NOW. Song 40 — Kanhapa "Whatever is the sphere of mind is utter delusion; the volume of treatises are a rosary of falsehood. Say how simultaneously-arisen Bliss (sahaja or Supreme Gnosis) can be spoken of to him whose body, speech (energy), and mind are not internally united. Falsely the guru instructs the disciple; how can he/she speak of that which transcends the range of speech? Those who speak thereof are hypocrites … the guru is dumb, the disciple deaf. How shall Kanha speak of the Jewell of the Jina..like the deaf instructed by the dumb! collophon: Thus though perhaps seemingly far away or close at hand, the true guru provides the true disciple with Great Bliss (mahasukha) through the power of passion. Song 38 by Sarahapa "The body is the little boat, the mind is the oar; hold firmly the helm in the form of the word of the True guru. Making the mind firm by the union of vajra and lotus in the middle of the ocean of existence, hold steady the boat. One cannot reach the other shore (nirvana) by any other means. The boatsman tows the boat by the means of a good rope; having abandoned the boat go instantly to the island of great bliss without any effort (in the simultaneously arisen bliss), not otherwise. On the path (central column or avadhuti) there exist dangers as well as the mighty robbers of Sun and Moon (pingala/ida or lalana/rasana), therein all are submerged in the duality of separateness and sense objects of the ocean of existence (samsara). But following along the bank (the central column or avadhuti) the bodhicitta vajra rises upwards in the strong current of great passion. Here, Saraha says, it enters the Sky (the island of the immaculate chakra). " There exist also other schools having varied practices that are also called sahaj yoga.  Also Ramana Maharshi and others consider sahaj samadhi — spontaneously arising samadhi, very highly. So the word sahaj, can mean different things to different people. For me it is the practice of honoring this innate and dynamic intelligence within myself and all things in its continuity (outside of linear time) all the time. Of course I fail miserably — but such failure is a great joy as relative to stasis. Sometimes I am moved by IT — a little and I feel whole, complete, and fulfilled — when i am on the path which calls me! Love

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LOL Can i buy some Samadhi aswell ? I’ll start saving today

Some Madhi? What is madhi. You are not calling me an aswell are you? First you will have to prove that a’samadhi is not real, but in order to do so you will have to understand what the nature of utter madness portends and/or what it doesn’t. For instance what is the meaning of utter nonsense, etc. When you come back from that excursion, then we can talk some more. Knock knock — oh oh !

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and now the goddess is threatening me with reincarnation as a human.  o god. not that again.  save me.  save me.  save me.

it is up to you — you must wake up now!  "sahaj needs to do breath of fire and sordarshan chakra kriya.  yes.  yes. all that karma burning.  burning. burning." Yes, to fool the moths into flying inside — that’s how we build the fire! But what is sordarshan kriya? myee needs to weep.

Yes, so do most of us. i once had a friend and now i have none.

sahaj loves moths! yum yum

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Thankyou moth, for leading me to the flame. Alienate the being you most loved ? this sounds deep and dark. I hope it is ok ok. Peace moth and Sahaj, Justin

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Myee; I only received four. Where are the other two? God knows I need it! This is very similar to Yantra Yoga (Tibetan Yoga that came from India in the 8th century). Will start today and let you know the results.  Appreciate it! P.S. What do I do after I reach the 27th stage of samadhi? Is there a 28 and how much does that cost?

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LOL Can i buy some Samadhi aswell ? I’ll start saving today

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Myee; I only received four. Where are the other two? God knows I need it! This is very similar to Yantra Yoga (Tibetan Yoga that came from India in the 8th century). Will start today and let you know the results.  Appreciate it! P.S. What do I do after I reach the 27th stage of samadhi? Is there a 28 and how much does that cost?

Hey, it’s hard work to get there! I won’t pay any money – "they" have to pay me lots of bucks to do all this climbing work!! ) — Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh

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what is aggravating you? myee the grief stricken moth

Upset stomach I am celebrating it! But now that I have started practicing sordarshan chakra kriya (although poorly) I actually feel much better. Sincere thanks, dear one!

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Hey, it’s hard work to get there! I won’t pay any money – "they" have to pay me lots of bucks to do all this climbing work!! ) — Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh

She may take plastic? It’s worth it…!

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What is Yantra — i thought that was picture yoga.  meditate on a symbol type thing.  a description of reality in symbols.   i’m not very bright with my bug brain and all.  but i think the 27 facets and 81 projections had to have come from yantra.  the idea or intellectual word depictions must be the same as the yantra yoga.

Well you are correct yantra yoga is usually meant to describe a branch of yoga that utilizes the "sacred" geometric patterns as means of contemplation/dharana as transformational objects in order to get to the trans-representational meaning behind them such as the practice of  Sri Yantra,  Sri Cakra, etc. These are patterns are seen as energy patterns denoting a sacred geometry. I won’t go into this practice here, as I was refrring to another practice also called yantra yoga (by Tibetans). It is similar in that it manipulates the body, the prana, and the mind as energetic representations in order to synchronize all these forces into their natural synergistic and unconditioned highest potential. Allow me to  will simply share something that I wrote for another discussion group taht covers this. My wife and I took a retreat with Namkhai Norbu last month. Norbu is a Tibetan incarnation in the yoga strain of Tibetan Buddhism who first went to Italy in 1964 to stay and teach and thus he is more familiar with Westerners than other Tibetans. He is the last in a line of Tibetans who teach asana, pranayama, bandhas, mudras, and meditation (called yantra yoga) from an extant tradition kept alive in Tibet when Padmasambhava brought it up from Indian sub-continent in the 8th century. Thus it has been preserved in Tibet as direct descendent from the Great Tantric Eclectic period and is part of the Mahasiddha Tradition (as mentioned above) who practised hatha and tantric yoga. His brand in particular came from the Indian Mahasiddha, Humkara. Yantra (trulkor in Tibetan) means sacred or  spiritual wheel or machine. It thus deals consciously and directly with what is called the inner mandala. The vajra body is the name given to this network of body parts and wisdom energies (prana). Naljyor is the Tibetan word for yoga derived from the word Nalma which means the natural unconditioned ,and unaltered state (swarupa). Thus Trulkor Naljyor (Yantra Yoga) is the practice of arriving at our natural unconditioned state by way of using the human body, breath (prana in Sanskrit and Lun in Tibetan), endocrine substances (bindu in Sanskrit and thigle in Tibetan) as we activate the sacred process (evolutionary machine). In particular Norbu calls this specific yantra practice that he teaches, TRULKHOR NYIDA KHAJOR which he translates as the unification of Sun and Moon. Yantra yoga unlike static poses are dynamic, and we move from one pose into another utilizing different breathing — the breath and movements are always linked. It is a given in this practice that various positions of the body influence one’s breathing patterns, and each mental/emotional state is also accompanied by a specific breathing pattern. thus yantra yoga is designed to work very deeply upon these body, mind, breathing, and emotional states and eventually to free the chitta from all conditioning (via re-conditioning). What id aimed at is not a contrived breathing, but what is called natural or direct breathing albeit it is arrived at through a process or technique (contrivation). Here the assumption is that prana follows the mind and the mind follows prana — here then all we have to do is to learn about our own energy and take back conscious direction through conscious practice — then eventually we are lead (and lead ourselves) back to our true natural Self or true nature, in self realization. Here also in this system the pranas flow in the wisdom channels (nadis in Sanskrit or Za in Tibetan)some of whom flow in the actual physical body and some which do not. The principle channels being left and right, lalana/rasana, ida/pingala, lunar/solar, female/male, or roma/gyanma and the central channel called sushumna in Sanskrit and sometimes Wuma in Tibetan in Norbu’s system. I won’t go into detail into the breathing exercises, kumbhakas, bandhas, asanas, wavelike movements, visualizations, sequences, and their many combinations other than to say that they all can appear spontaneously as natural expressions if we listen to the inner wisdom or teacher when we practice. This is the eternal Source where the mahasiddhas obtained the practices in the first place. Norbu also teaches something he calls vajra dance, but he calls all tehse tantric practices as preliminary practices which dissolve the illusion of duality in order to realize Dzogchen, or our natural unaltered/ modified state (devoid of vritti). (I call it Sahaj) This is also called mahamudra or the Great Perfected State the fruit of tantric practice. Now Norbu calls yantra yoga and all tantra as secondary practices in order not to get stuck on the [path, but rather realize its fruit, but in order to stay on topic, Norbu also quotes the tantric saying; "There is no Mahamudra without Karmamudra". Now karmamudra refers to uniting sun/moon, lalana/rasana, ida/pingala, yab/yum, etc through actual sexual practice. Its importance is that it intensifies our ability to distinguish clearly the sensation aspect of our experience from the state of presence (rigpa) which accompanies it. Here clarity and emptiness (wisdom and compassion)are united in the non-dual all encompassing unlimited reality through the same internal ecological practices of the inner mandala except that the engine now is more hotly fired. Norbu emphacizes that success in this prcatice is dependent upon practicing the yoga practices first. Only when the body, mind, energy channels, and vajra body are strengthened can the heat generated from such a practice find its natural fruit in what he calls integrating one’s state in natural contemplation while allowing the participants to self liberate. Now I do not want to depreciate these teachings with such a brief summary (there are volumes of works written on Dzogchen and tantra) but I want to add that these are very advanced teachings (not that I am at all advanced) and I have risked the fact that many will not understand hence this is for the few who have been searching– who are able to see the link between these two great tantric traditions — Buddhist and Hindu, between hatha and yantra, between tantra and hatha, between the body and the mind, and the link between spirit and earth and the idea of the Body of Light all of which form the esoteric basis of advanced tantricism, often called ati yoga. Forgive me if this appears as nonsense,it is a very brief account of a very ancient practice arising from before the time of Humkara (an eighth century Indian Mahasiddha from the great eclectic period of tantric yoga). It is very elaborate and includes hundreds of asanas. It was curious to see that the hand position of the pranayama that I learned in yantra yoga was very similar as sordarshan chakra kriya (with the fingers/hand flat). As a matter of fact many of the complex breathing patterns (which are often done with asana) are very similar to that which is taught in 3HO. Maybe this is to be expected since the Himalayans are directly north and east of the Punjab and the Sikh religion started shortly after the tantric Buddhists were persecuted and destroyed in India!  Indeed I have never seen any thing so similar to the hatha yoga as preserved in Tibet before this. Although the asanas are very much similar to more standard modern asana practice, they are more dynamic and integrate much more complex breathing movements coordinated within each physical movement. Also with this system the intent is always focused on the energy. I have not forgotten "What is Sahaj?" but that will take another post. Thank you, dear one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very similar to Yantra Yoga (Tibetan Yoga that came from India in the 8th century). Will start today and let you know the results.  Appreciate it! P.S. What do I do after I reach the 27th stage of samadhi? Is there a 28 and how much does that cost?

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Joseph Campbell: "There is an important difference between the Hindu and the Western ideas. In the Biblical tradition, God creates man, but man cannot say that he is divine in the same sense that the Creator is, where as in Hinduism, all things are incarnations of that power." This is the essence of the yogic/Hindu life. Tat Tvam Asi "Thou Art That." The Hindus live a spiritual/religious lifestyle following the various forms of Yoga to realize "That." The Soul. Many people are becoming interested in the yogic disciplines of Hinduism. Many choose to study "indefinately" while others choose to make a formal committment to this great religion–eventually, perhaps, becoming teachers. To learn more about Hinduism–the religion of all forms of Yoga, visit: http://www.classicalyoga.org http://www.hindu.org In Yoga, Inlight

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Gosh a talking moth? That’s fine to get that "out" of your system. Well you have been on this newsgroup long enough to see hundreds of the same posts from Insight1. They are all variations of the same quotes from his web site which basically say that the ONLY right way is his way i.e., the non-Hindu way can not be Yoga. He says that yoga instruction  should not be charged for, then he advertises his web site where books on how to do yoga the Hindu way are charged for. I see not only contradiction, but deceit in his posts. A few of us asked him about this contradiction  many times before we "labeled" him a simple spammer. He never replied. We asked him repeatedly what yoga practices he does and how he became a Hindu (after all only Hindu’s are qualified to teach yoga" was repeated at least in 50 posts, but he has never replied other than to repeat the same posts over and over again. You give him more credit, but to me it not only is deceitful it is spamming pure and simple. But spamming is simply that, not netiquette and any spammer has to accept the label. Inlight is not simply expressing his own practice and views like this is what my practice looks like, he is explicitly saying that his way is "more" qualified than others and is selling his books on that basis. So I do not at all see Insight1 as simply stating his own opinions, but rather he is purposely misleading people in order to sell books, at least this is clear to me. In this last post he says: "The Hindus live a spiritual/religious lifestyle following the various forms of Yoga to realize "That." The Soul." I pointed out that this is simply not a statement of truth. Very few Indians practice yoga. I said: You have obviously not visited India have you Insight1. Most Indians do not study or practice yoga and this is a fact any Indian will tell you (if you asked).

Then Inlight says  again: "To learn more about Hinduism–the religion of all forms of Yoga,visit:  http://ww etc" Please notice he used the word ALL in all forms of yoga. He didn’t say "Some" forms of yoga. It is clear that some one here is being intolerant of other forms as there have been many quotes from many different people (some considered "experts in the field of yoga) the past six months on this newsgroup that totally contradict Inlight’s opinion. Inlight1 does have the right to his opinion as long as it is genuine, but what I am saying that it is spam clear and simple. HE knows that there exist different forms of yoga which are not Hindu, yet he continues to make statements which appear to be intolerant. If he wanted to lend credibility to himself (Which for some reason he seems unaware) he could could a bit more tolerant by saying something like, "For a Hindu or classical approach to Yoga check out this web site or that web site, and this would be appropriate as long as he wasn’t selling books or if he did so only once in awhile even if he was selling books. But I see no attempt by him to dialogue, be truthful, discuss his shows of intolerance, or be honest or accurate. So after I attempted to dialogue with him (and others did as well) many months ago, then I made my decision that he didn’t care about being accurate or truthful. Sure you could just say that he is simply naive and inadroit, but I am convinced that he knows on some level that he is spreading misinformation (on purpose). It’s a game for him. If some one is selling books, once in awhile here, I wouldn’t say anything, but there is much more to this than that — there exists a fundamentalist intolerant ideology and arrogance behind this which will not be expanded upon here (Feuerstein’s article about Yoga not being a religion approaches, albeit very lightly, this subject). Thus I am trying to bring some thing to his attention (in my own inadroit way). Basically if Inlight1 was a bit more tolerant about other forms of non-religious yoga being legitimate, then his books would lose its selling point — he would lose authority. prestige, and advantage. The sad part is that he doesn’t know what part he is playing in these international "games" of religious/racial pride, intolerance, and bigotry. The great saints have all said Yoga is universal and does not belong to any one religion or country and hence their mission was to spread it to anyone who wanted to sincerely learn it in the hope that once people woke up to a certain extent, then social strife would be seen as the self defeating folly that it really is. I’m glad that the moths are getting a bit more aggressive on this newsgroup — must be the weather? Whew! Thank God, I like cottons!

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Insight1 says; "The Hindus live a spiritual/religious lifestyle following the various forms of Yoga to realize "That." The Soul." You have obviously not visited India have you Insight1. Most Indians do not study or practice yoga and this is a fact any Indian will tell you (if you asked). You say:  To learn more about Hinduism–the religion of all forms of Yoga, visit:  http://www.classicalyoga.org Here you go again — Hinduism is not the religion of ALL forms of yoga as has been proved (even by your own statements. Why do you constantly contradict and embarrass yourself making yourself look so foolish. Why do you advertise this site which sells instruction on how to practice yoga when you say that yoga instruction should not be sold for money? Why do you constantly make a fool out of yourself? Why do I care, you may ask … but you don’t. Like a child you just repeat the same stuff over again… what does this serve except a dream to sell more books?

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Congratulations. I’m getting married in a week! Stress! I know the feeling – likewise, I am looking forward to it. But the money issues do take the toll. I personally have found a good physical workout (to the point all I want to do is sleep) is key. I belong to a gym but thats not a requirement – just run, hike, bike until you are too exhausted to worry – then take that bath! Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Hi, I’m getting married 4 weeks today and I’m really suffering from stress, but *not* (I beleive) wedding stress. Everything is taken care of, most of it is paid for or the money budgetted to pay for it, I’m not panicing at all, in fact I’m really excited, really really excited (no dread or panic at all) The bigger issue is work. I’m getting really tense about it, everyone else seems to take sickie time off on a whim leaving an already under resources team to pick up their work, (or when they go for 7 fag breaks a day) my boss has been in for 3 days in the past 4 weeks, and I’m finding it really stressful.  I really don’t have a problem with people taking time off with genuine illnesses, but I do mind if they make it clear that they were hungover, or are off with a general vague feeling (which seems to affect a lot of people round here).  I feel that I can’t, morally, take a sickie, because I know I’ll be doing to the team what other people have done to me and I have resented.  I’m grumpy, I’m snappy and I hate about 97% of my users.!! We are also living under a very tight budget (we are paying for the wedding ourselves) and there isn’t very much money spare for treats, and we are living very frugally on the things on 2for1 in the Supermarket, but with a lot of fresh veggies. Here is the real crunch – I’m so stressed I missed my last period. I’m absolutely convinced (and so is the Doctor) that I’m not pregnant and this is being caused by the stress I am being put under. (I’m on the pill, haven’t missed any, but I took my 7 day break between pills as normal and nothing appeared). I have eczema on my hands and this has also flared up, and the last thing I want on my wedding day is to have red and weeping hands. I already have hardly any caffeine in my diet, we have stopped drinking becasue we can’t afford it, and every night before bed I’m having a long and relaxing bath. Does anyone have any ideas of very inexpensive things I can do to releive the tension in my body. I think I have probably been stressed for years (I’m already on anti-depressants for problems arising years ago before I met H2B) but something has pushed me over the edge now. This really is not the best time of my life for my body to seize up, esp in the gynae dept. I have throught about asking H2B for backrubs but he’s not really confident about doing them….and I don’t want to look like I’m being a bitch by telling him what to do. I don’t want to sound all exasperated, but does anyone have any tips or ideas…. A few of people have suggested hypnosis tapes or special oils etc, but I really don’t want to spend that much, even if its only

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where are you located nori? SmiLE GoD LoVeS YoU <

I live in NH.Where do you live? Nori — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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i was thinking about one of my biggest PD symptons, the way i breathe. when im in a publc places (especially while checking out anywhere) the thing that seems to trigger a PA the most is when it seems like i just cant get in a good breathe of air. when that happens i get scared that im gonna pass out, which i never have so i have no idea why that seems to be one of my biggest fears. anyways i was thinking about trying yoga or something cuz i heard that yoga teaches all kinds of breathing techniques. i was wondering if anyone has tryed yoga and has it helped? thanks in advance:) SmiLE GoD LoVeS YoU <<

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i was thinking about one of my biggest PD symptons, the way i breathe. when im in a publc places (especially while checking out anywhere) the thing that seems to trigger a PA the most is when it seems like i just cant get in a good breathe of air. when that happens i get scared that im gonna pass out, which i never have so i have no idea why that seems to be one of my biggest fears. anyways i was thinking about trying yoga or something cuz i heard that yoga teaches all kinds of breathing techniques. i was wondering if anyone has tryed yoga and has it helped? thanks in advance:) SmiLE GoD LoVeS YoU <

Hi Marlena, Yes, I have tried Yoga.  I was going every Wednesady and Saturday up until about 2 months ago.  At that point I had started a part-time job and it seems I was scheduled at the times of my Yoga class.  Then I was sick with a sinus infection.  I intend to start going again because the relaxation that you get from Yoga is GREAT.  If you have a good teacher she/he will listen to the needs of the class and work on parts of the body that feel tight/tense.  I have also learned some very helpful breathing techniques.  This teacher also passes out photocopies of breathing exercises or postures that we can do at home. Give Yoga a try. In my area it is offered at the local hospitals, YWCA and at various gyms so those are places you could call for info in your area. Nori — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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Piggy-backing on Nori’s message to Marlana… Hi, Marlana — I have studied yoga off and on for the last I-don’t-remember how many years. Yoga is great stuff.  But as with any discipline, I think one that thing that can make a big difference in how well you like and enjoy and  benefit from a discipline is finding a GOOD teacher.  If it were me, I would check out the different teachers available.  That is, if I were in *good enough* shape to do so.  Breathing is MOST important… But different people have different opinions on what is *best* or what is *good* breathing techniques. I like what I have found, and it works for me.  I ALWAYS breathe from my diaphragm, when at rest at any rate.  There are times that I employ different breathing techniques, but I do so for other reasons than to help with anxiety/panic. Take care, and be well… — Blue (one who breathes deeply – especially when smoking my menthol cigs!… ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i was thinking about one of my biggest PD symptons, the way i breathe. when im in a publc places (especially while checking out anywhere) the thing that seems to trigger a PA the most is when it seems like i just cant get in a good breathe of air. when that happens i get scared that im gonna pass out, which i never have so i have no idea why that seems to be one of my biggest fears. anyways i was thinking about trying yoga or something cuz i heard that yoga teaches all kinds of breathing techniques. i was wondering if anyone has tryed yoga and has it helped? thanks in advance:) SmiLE GoD LoVeS YoU < Hi Marlena, Yes, I have tried Yoga.  I was going every Wednesady and Saturday up until about 2 months ago.  At that point I had started a part-time job and it seems I was scheduled at the times of my Yoga class.  Then I was sick with a sinus infection.  I intend to start going again because the relaxation that you get from Yoga is GREAT.  If you have a good teacher she/he will listen to the needs of the class and work on parts of the body that feel tight/tense.  I have also learned some very helpful breathing techniques.  This teacher also passes out photocopies of breathing exercises or postures that we can do at home. Give Yoga a try. In my area it is offered at the local hospitals, YWCA and at various gyms so those are places you could call for info in your area. Nori — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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I can’t believe I’m doing this.  I know so little about yoga, I’ve only taken a few lessons.  But I heard so many good things about how white tantric yoga can be a life changing experience.  I signed up for a 9 hour course this Saturday (November 14th) and I don’t even have a partner yet! Has anyone ever taken Yogi Bhajan’s one day course that tours through America, Mexico, England, etc?.  Should I wait until I have more experience? Or is it true that even an inexperienced person can enjoy the benefits? thanks

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I can’t believe I’m doing this.  I know so little about yoga, I’ve only taken a few lessons.  But I heard so many good things about how white tantric yoga can be a life changing experience.  I signed up for a 9 hour course this Saturday (November 14th) and I don’t even have a partner yet! Has anyone ever taken Yogi Bhajan’s one day course that tours through America, Mexico, England, etc?.  Should I wait until I have more experience? Or is it true that even an inexperienced person can enjoy the benefits? thanks

Hello friend, I CAN beliefe you do this! ) I joined this year my sixth white Tantra Course in Loches – france. We have been 600 ppl from 20 different countrys who meditated for 3 days in a big top in the beautiful surroundings of an french chateau. I only once did the one day course (here in my hometown Hamburg / Germany with my girlfriend a few years ago) – the other courses lasted all 3 days and have been the highlight of the international Yogafestival in Loches / france. You absolutely don’t have to worry. If you don’t bring a partner to the course, someone will be found for you when you go there. Do you have something white to cover your head (turban, cab, etc.)? You allso know that you have to wear "white" comfortable (best is cotton) clothes? It’s good to have a good meditation-pillow,sheepskin and or blanket so that you are able to sit comfortable over a longer time. And bring a bottle of water to drink (and drink it!) and, if you like it, something to eat in the breaks – a little snack (apple, bananas, yogi-bars, etc.). Most of the meditation-exercises will be between 31 and 62 minutes long and they are a combination of mudras, mantras and are often done with eye-contact to your partner. After every exercise there will be a break of 10 – 30 minutes so that you can walk around, move, relax. And of course there will be a 1 hour break at about 1pm. Yes, I met many ppl who never did Yoga but joined the white Tantra course and benefited from it. And, beliefe me, nothing can prepare you to a white Tantric experience! ) It is absolutely different from the usual Yoga, Kundalini Yoga. If you’d like to know more – feel free to post me. And have a lot of fun, enjoy it and relax Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh

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