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Campbell on Hinduism
Question:
Butterfly Vision Lo! In a moment i did truly see what appeared at first as a tiny moth but it appeared to get closer lo — it’s wings! translucent and irridescent and as it came even closer I saw! It became huge — all encompassing and thus brought me into her heart took me away with her wings I flew with her and was made whole again Lo — it is a beauteous thing
Response:
Myee Butter-Fly You are sensitive and kind! I will faithfully practice — was stuck but am becoming a little more loose! Yes, it may be too much heat and sitali already feels better. I press down with a small stick to help curl the tongue. Was bloat, burning, and ainful – I fast for a day, but then it starts again… May have to do a longer fast? Sordarshan chakra kriya is very powerful and I have not yet been able to practice for longer than 6 minutes — yet! It wakes up strong currents! Maybe too powerful for me now? Will be gone to the mountain woods the next couple of days — will dig deeper into it (avoiding stepping on any bugs). I will listen and love more deeply or so I intend! Sat Chit Ananda
Response:
Right on dude, now your talking. Rock the boat rock the boat baby! Yours-Someone,somewhere in England.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what does sahaj mean? Sahaj is Sanskrit. Generally it means innate, natural, and spontaneously arisen. It refers to the flowing state which exists when the conditioning is dropped — when pure objectiveness and pure subjectiveness are realized as a synchronized free flowing unity. For the Maha Siddhas sahaj connotes the flow of energy in the sushumna. Sahaj can also be interpreted as coming from the Sahajayana School of Medieval India. I studied a specific method called Sahaj Yog from a disciple of Swami Kripaluananda. It is based on letting the shakti and intelligence behind shakti move us spontaneously during meditation (or for that matter during asana practice as well). A little of this is covered in "Obscure Religious Cults" by S.B. Dasgupta and the "Yoga Tradition" by Georg Feuerstein. A great book is "The Science of Meditation" by Swami Yogacharya Kripalvananda, Kayavarohan, Gujarat, 1977, but it is very difficult to obtain. These songs are all from the great Eclectic Medieval Indian period which consider the body with its wisdom channels, the tantric transformational mandala while the time is always set in the indigenous NOW. Song 40 — Kanhapa "Whatever is the sphere of mind is utter delusion; the volume of treatises are a rosary of falsehood. Say how simultaneously-arisen Bliss (sahaja or Supreme Gnosis) can be spoken of to him whose body, speech (energy), and mind are not internally united. Falsely the guru instructs the disciple; how can he/she speak of that which transcends the range of speech? Those who speak thereof are hypocrites … the guru is dumb, the disciple deaf. How shall Kanha speak of the Jewell of the Jina..like the deaf instructed by the dumb! collophon: Thus though perhaps seemingly far away or close at hand, the true guru provides the true disciple with Great Bliss (mahasukha) through the power of passion. Song 38 by Sarahapa "The body is the little boat, the mind is the oar; hold firmly the helm in the form of the word of the True guru. Making the mind firm by the union of vajra and lotus in the middle of the ocean of existence, hold steady the boat. One cannot reach the other shore (nirvana) by any other means. The boatsman tows the boat by the means of a good rope; having abandoned the boat go instantly to the island of great bliss without any effort (in the simultaneously arisen bliss), not otherwise. On the path (central column or avadhuti) there exist dangers as well as the mighty robbers of Sun and Moon (pingala/ida or lalana/rasana), therein all are submerged in the duality of separateness and sense objects of the ocean of existence (samsara). But following along the bank (the central column or avadhuti) the bodhicitta vajra rises upwards in the strong current of great passion. Here, Saraha says, it enters the Sky (the island of the immaculate chakra). " There exist also other schools having varied practices that are also called sahaj yoga. Also Ramana Maharshi and others consider sahaj samadhi — spontaneously arising samadhi, very highly. So the word sahaj, can mean different things to different people. For me it is the practice of honoring this innate and dynamic intelligence within myself and all things in its continuity (outside of linear time) all the time. Of course I fail miserably — but such failure is a great joy as relative to stasis. Sometimes I am moved by IT — a little and I feel whole, complete, and fulfilled — when i am on the path which calls me! Love
Response:
CAMBELL ON RELIGION.. IS WHAT "ELVIS" IS TO PAINTINGS ON BLACK VELVET..
Response:
what does sahaj mean?
Sahaj is Sanskrit. Generally it means innate, natural, and spontaneously arisen. It refers to the flowing state which exists when the conditioning is dropped — when pure objectiveness and pure subjectiveness are realized as a synchronized free flowing unity. For the Maha Siddhas sahaj connotes the flow of energy in the sushumna. Sahaj can also be interpreted as coming from the Sahajayana School of Medieval India. I studied a specific method called Sahaj Yog from a disciple of Swami Kripaluananda. It is based on letting the shakti and intelligence behind shakti move us spontaneously during meditation (or for that matter during asana practice as well). A little of this is covered in "Obscure Religious Cults" by S.B. Dasgupta and the "Yoga Tradition" by Georg Feuerstein. A great book is "The Science of Meditation" by Swami Yogacharya Kripalvananda, Kayavarohan, Gujarat, 1977, but it is very difficult to obtain. These songs are all from the great Eclectic Medieval Indian period which consider the body with its wisdom channels, the tantric transformational mandala while the time is always set in the indigenous NOW. Song 40 — Kanhapa "Whatever is the sphere of mind is utter delusion; the volume of treatises are a rosary of falsehood. Say how simultaneously-arisen Bliss (sahaja or Supreme Gnosis) can be spoken of to him whose body, speech (energy), and mind are not internally united. Falsely the guru instructs the disciple; how can he/she speak of that which transcends the range of speech? Those who speak thereof are hypocrites … the guru is dumb, the disciple deaf. How shall Kanha speak of the Jewell of the Jina..like the deaf instructed by the dumb! collophon: Thus though perhaps seemingly far away or close at hand, the true guru provides the true disciple with Great Bliss (mahasukha) through the power of passion. Song 38 by Sarahapa "The body is the little boat, the mind is the oar; hold firmly the helm in the form of the word of the True guru. Making the mind firm by the union of vajra and lotus in the middle of the ocean of existence, hold steady the boat. One cannot reach the other shore (nirvana) by any other means. The boatsman tows the boat by the means of a good rope; having abandoned the boat go instantly to the island of great bliss without any effort (in the simultaneously arisen bliss), not otherwise. On the path (central column or avadhuti) there exist dangers as well as the mighty robbers of Sun and Moon (pingala/ida or lalana/rasana), therein all are submerged in the duality of separateness and sense objects of the ocean of existence (samsara). But following along the bank (the central column or avadhuti) the bodhicitta vajra rises upwards in the strong current of great passion. Here, Saraha says, it enters the Sky (the island of the immaculate chakra). " There exist also other schools having varied practices that are also called sahaj yoga. Also Ramana Maharshi and others consider sahaj samadhi — spontaneously arising samadhi, very highly. So the word sahaj, can mean different things to different people. For me it is the practice of honoring this innate and dynamic intelligence within myself and all things in its continuity (outside of linear time) all the time. Of course I fail miserably — but such failure is a great joy as relative to stasis. Sometimes I am moved by IT — a little and I feel whole, complete, and fulfilled — when i am on the path which calls me! Love
Response:
LOL Can i buy some Samadhi aswell ? I’ll start saving today
Some Madhi? What is madhi. You are not calling me an aswell are you? First you will have to prove that a’samadhi is not real, but in order to do so you will have to understand what the nature of utter madness portends and/or what it doesn’t. For instance what is the meaning of utter nonsense, etc. When you come back from that excursion, then we can talk some more. Knock knock — oh oh !
Response:
and now the goddess is threatening me with reincarnation as a human. o god. not that again. save me. save me. save me.
it is up to you — you must wake up now! "sahaj needs to do breath of fire and sordarshan chakra kriya. yes. yes. all that karma burning. burning. burning." Yes, to fool the moths into flying inside — that’s how we build the fire! But what is sordarshan kriya? myee needs to weep.
Yes, so do most of us. i once had a friend and now i have none.
sahaj loves moths! yum yum
Response:
Thankyou moth, for leading me to the flame. Alienate the being you most loved ? this sounds deep and dark. I hope it is ok ok. Peace moth and Sahaj, Justin
Response:
Myee; I only received four. Where are the other two? God knows I need it! This is very similar to Yantra Yoga (Tibetan Yoga that came from India in the 8th century). Will start today and let you know the results. Appreciate it! P.S. What do I do after I reach the 27th stage of samadhi? Is there a 28 and how much does that cost? 
Response:
LOL Can i buy some Samadhi aswell ? I’ll start saving today
Response:
Myee; I only received four. Where are the other two? God knows I need it! This is very similar to Yantra Yoga (Tibetan Yoga that came from India in the 8th century). Will start today and let you know the results. Appreciate it! P.S. What do I do after I reach the 27th stage of samadhi? Is there a 28 and how much does that cost?
Hey, it’s hard work to get there! I won’t pay any money – "they" have to pay me lots of bucks to do all this climbing work!! 
) — Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
Response:
what is aggravating you? myee the grief stricken moth
Upset stomach I am celebrating it! But now that I have started practicing sordarshan chakra kriya (although poorly) I actually feel much better. Sincere thanks, dear one!
Response:
Hey, it’s hard work to get there! I won’t pay any money – "they" have to pay me lots of bucks to do all this climbing work!! ) — Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
She may take plastic? It’s worth it…!
Response:
What is Yantra — i thought that was picture yoga. meditate on a symbol type thing. a description of reality in symbols. i’m not very bright with my bug brain and all. but i think the 27 facets and 81 projections had to have come from yantra. the idea or intellectual word depictions must be the same as the yantra yoga.
Well you are correct yantra yoga is usually meant to describe a branch of yoga that utilizes the "sacred" geometric patterns as means of contemplation/dharana as transformational objects in order to get to the trans-representational meaning behind them such as the practice of Sri Yantra, Sri Cakra, etc. These are patterns are seen as energy patterns denoting a sacred geometry. I won’t go into this practice here, as I was refrring to another practice also called yantra yoga (by Tibetans). It is similar in that it manipulates the body, the prana, and the mind as energetic representations in order to synchronize all these forces into their natural synergistic and unconditioned highest potential. Allow me to will simply share something that I wrote for another discussion group taht covers this. My wife and I took a retreat with Namkhai Norbu last month. Norbu is a Tibetan incarnation in the yoga strain of Tibetan Buddhism who first went to Italy in 1964 to stay and teach and thus he is more familiar with Westerners than other Tibetans. He is the last in a line of Tibetans who teach asana, pranayama, bandhas, mudras, and meditation (called yantra yoga) from an extant tradition kept alive in Tibet when Padmasambhava brought it up from Indian sub-continent in the 8th century. Thus it has been preserved in Tibet as direct descendent from the Great Tantric Eclectic period and is part of the Mahasiddha Tradition (as mentioned above) who practised hatha and tantric yoga. His brand in particular came from the Indian Mahasiddha, Humkara. Yantra (trulkor in Tibetan) means sacred or spiritual wheel or machine. It thus deals consciously and directly with what is called the inner mandala. The vajra body is the name given to this network of body parts and wisdom energies (prana). Naljyor is the Tibetan word for yoga derived from the word Nalma which means the natural unconditioned ,and unaltered state (swarupa). Thus Trulkor Naljyor (Yantra Yoga) is the practice of arriving at our natural unconditioned state by way of using the human body, breath (prana in Sanskrit and Lun in Tibetan), endocrine substances (bindu in Sanskrit and thigle in Tibetan) as we activate the sacred process (evolutionary machine). In particular Norbu calls this specific yantra practice that he teaches, TRULKHOR NYIDA KHAJOR which he translates as the unification of Sun and Moon. Yantra yoga unlike static poses are dynamic, and we move from one pose into another utilizing different breathing — the breath and movements are always linked. It is a given in this practice that various positions of the body influence one’s breathing patterns, and each mental/emotional state is also accompanied by a specific breathing pattern. thus yantra yoga is designed to work very deeply upon these body, mind, breathing, and emotional states and eventually to free the chitta from all conditioning (via re-conditioning). What id aimed at is not a contrived breathing, but what is called natural or direct breathing albeit it is arrived at through a process or technique (contrivation). Here the assumption is that prana follows the mind and the mind follows prana — here then all we have to do is to learn about our own energy and take back conscious direction through conscious practice — then eventually we are lead (and lead ourselves) back to our true natural Self or true nature, in self realization. Here also in this system the pranas flow in the wisdom channels (nadis in Sanskrit or Za in Tibetan)some of whom flow in the actual physical body and some which do not. The principle channels being left and right, lalana/rasana, ida/pingala, lunar/solar, female/male, or roma/gyanma and the central channel called sushumna in Sanskrit and sometimes Wuma in Tibetan in Norbu’s system. I won’t go into detail into the breathing exercises, kumbhakas, bandhas, asanas, wavelike movements, visualizations, sequences, and their many combinations other than to say that they all can appear spontaneously as natural expressions if we listen to the inner wisdom or teacher when we practice. This is the eternal Source where the mahasiddhas obtained the practices in the first place. Norbu also teaches something he calls vajra dance, but he calls all tehse tantric practices as preliminary practices which dissolve the illusion of duality in order to realize Dzogchen, or our natural unaltered/ modified state (devoid of vritti). (I call it Sahaj) This is also called mahamudra or the Great Perfected State the fruit of tantric practice. Now Norbu calls yantra yoga and all tantra as secondary practices in order not to get stuck on the [path, but rather realize its fruit, but in order to stay on topic, Norbu also quotes the tantric saying; "There is no Mahamudra without Karmamudra". Now karmamudra refers to uniting sun/moon, lalana/rasana, ida/pingala, yab/yum, etc through actual sexual practice. Its importance is that it intensifies our ability to distinguish clearly the sensation aspect of our experience from the state of presence (rigpa) which accompanies it. Here clarity and emptiness (wisdom and compassion)are united in the non-dual all encompassing unlimited reality through the same internal ecological practices of the inner mandala except that the engine now is more hotly fired. Norbu emphacizes that success in this prcatice is dependent upon practicing the yoga practices first. Only when the body, mind, energy channels, and vajra body are strengthened can the heat generated from such a practice find its natural fruit in what he calls integrating one’s state in natural contemplation while allowing the participants to self liberate. Now I do not want to depreciate these teachings with such a brief summary (there are volumes of works written on Dzogchen and tantra) but I want to add that these are very advanced teachings (not that I am at all advanced) and I have risked the fact that many will not understand hence this is for the few who have been searching– who are able to see the link between these two great tantric traditions — Buddhist and Hindu, between hatha and yantra, between tantra and hatha, between the body and the mind, and the link between spirit and earth and the idea of the Body of Light all of which form the esoteric basis of advanced tantricism, often called ati yoga. Forgive me if this appears as nonsense,it is a very brief account of a very ancient practice arising from before the time of Humkara (an eighth century Indian Mahasiddha from the great eclectic period of tantric yoga). It is very elaborate and includes hundreds of asanas. It was curious to see that the hand position of the pranayama that I learned in yantra yoga was very similar as sordarshan chakra kriya (with the fingers/hand flat). As a matter of fact many of the complex breathing patterns (which are often done with asana) are very similar to that which is taught in 3HO. Maybe this is to be expected since the Himalayans are directly north and east of the Punjab and the Sikh religion started shortly after the tantric Buddhists were persecuted and destroyed in India! Indeed I have never seen any thing so similar to the hatha yoga as preserved in Tibet before this. Although the asanas are very much similar to more standard modern asana practice, they are more dynamic and integrate much more complex breathing movements coordinated within each physical movement. Also with this system the intent is always focused on the energy. I have not forgotten "What is Sahaj?" but that will take another post. Thank you, dear one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very similar to Yantra Yoga (Tibetan Yoga that came from India in the 8th century). Will start today and let you know the results. Appreciate it! P.S. What do I do after I reach the 27th stage of samadhi? Is there a 28 and how much does that cost?
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Joseph Campbell: "There is an important difference between the Hindu and the Western ideas. In the Biblical tradition, God creates man, but man cannot say that he is divine in the same sense that the Creator is, where as in Hinduism, all things are incarnations of that power." This is the essence of the yogic/Hindu life. Tat Tvam Asi "Thou Art That." The Hindus live a spiritual/religious lifestyle following the various forms of Yoga to realize "That." The Soul. Many people are becoming interested in the yogic disciplines of Hinduism. Many choose to study "indefinately" while others choose to make a formal committment to this great religion–eventually, perhaps, becoming teachers. To learn more about Hinduism–the religion of all forms of Yoga, visit: http://www.classicalyoga.org http://www.hindu.org In Yoga, Inlight
Response:
Gosh a talking moth? That’s fine to get that "out" of your system. Well you have been on this newsgroup long enough to see hundreds of the same posts from Insight1. They are all variations of the same quotes from his web site which basically say that the ONLY right way is his way i.e., the non-Hindu way can not be Yoga. He says that yoga instruction should not be charged for, then he advertises his web site where books on how to do yoga the Hindu way are charged for. I see not only contradiction, but deceit in his posts. A few of us asked him about this contradiction many times before we "labeled" him a simple spammer. He never replied. We asked him repeatedly what yoga practices he does and how he became a Hindu (after all only Hindu’s are qualified to teach yoga" was repeated at least in 50 posts, but he has never replied other than to repeat the same posts over and over again. You give him more credit, but to me it not only is deceitful it is spamming pure and simple. But spamming is simply that, not netiquette and any spammer has to accept the label. Inlight is not simply expressing his own practice and views like this is what my practice looks like, he is explicitly saying that his way is "more" qualified than others and is selling his books on that basis. So I do not at all see Insight1 as simply stating his own opinions, but rather he is purposely misleading people in order to sell books, at least this is clear to me. In this last post he says: "The Hindus live a spiritual/religious lifestyle following the various forms of Yoga to realize "That." The Soul." I pointed out that this is simply not a statement of truth. Very few Indians practice yoga. I said: You have obviously not visited India have you Insight1. Most Indians do not study or practice yoga and this is a fact any Indian will tell you (if you asked).
Then Inlight says again: "To learn more about Hinduism–the religion of all forms of Yoga,visit: http://ww etc" Please notice he used the word ALL in all forms of yoga. He didn’t say "Some" forms of yoga. It is clear that some one here is being intolerant of other forms as there have been many quotes from many different people (some considered "experts in the field of yoga) the past six months on this newsgroup that totally contradict Inlight’s opinion. Inlight1 does have the right to his opinion as long as it is genuine, but what I am saying that it is spam clear and simple. HE knows that there exist different forms of yoga which are not Hindu, yet he continues to make statements which appear to be intolerant. If he wanted to lend credibility to himself (Which for some reason he seems unaware) he could could a bit more tolerant by saying something like, "For a Hindu or classical approach to Yoga check out this web site or that web site, and this would be appropriate as long as he wasn’t selling books or if he did so only once in awhile even if he was selling books. But I see no attempt by him to dialogue, be truthful, discuss his shows of intolerance, or be honest or accurate. So after I attempted to dialogue with him (and others did as well) many months ago, then I made my decision that he didn’t care about being accurate or truthful. Sure you could just say that he is simply naive and inadroit, but I am convinced that he knows on some level that he is spreading misinformation (on purpose). It’s a game for him. If some one is selling books, once in awhile here, I wouldn’t say anything, but there is much more to this than that — there exists a fundamentalist intolerant ideology and arrogance behind this which will not be expanded upon here (Feuerstein’s article about Yoga not being a religion approaches, albeit very lightly, this subject). Thus I am trying to bring some thing to his attention (in my own inadroit way). Basically if Inlight1 was a bit more tolerant about other forms of non-religious yoga being legitimate, then his books would lose its selling point — he would lose authority. prestige, and advantage. The sad part is that he doesn’t know what part he is playing in these international "games" of religious/racial pride, intolerance, and bigotry. The great saints have all said Yoga is universal and does not belong to any one religion or country and hence their mission was to spread it to anyone who wanted to sincerely learn it in the hope that once people woke up to a certain extent, then social strife would be seen as the self defeating folly that it really is. I’m glad that the moths are getting a bit more aggressive on this newsgroup — must be the weather? Whew! Thank God, I like cottons!
Response:
Insight1 says; "The Hindus live a spiritual/religious lifestyle following the various forms of Yoga to realize "That." The Soul." You have obviously not visited India have you Insight1. Most Indians do not study or practice yoga and this is a fact any Indian will tell you (if you asked). You say: To learn more about Hinduism–the religion of all forms of Yoga, visit: http://www.classicalyoga.org Here you go again — Hinduism is not the religion of ALL forms of yoga as has been proved (even by your own statements. Why do you constantly contradict and embarrass yourself making yourself look so foolish. Why do you advertise this site which sells instruction on how to practice yoga when you say that yoga instruction should not be sold for money? Why do you constantly make a fool out of yourself? Why do I care, you may ask … but you don’t. Like a child you just repeat the same stuff over again… what does this serve except a dream to sell more books?
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