Question:

Hello Heather, Well put!  I couldn’t agree with you more.  Master taught us to be nonjudgmental and accepting of all.  The issue isn’t one’s sexual orientation, but one’s relationship with God and Guru.  Thanks for your comments. Blessings . . . Allen I am a recent member to this newsgroup but a longtime devotee of Paramahansa Yogananda.   I was interested about the discussion on homosexuality.  To my mind, Yogananda teaches moderation in any sexual expression but I have never felt homosexuality viewed as an ‘evil’ among devotees.  There are many homosexuals who are devotees of master.  Mostly because he is inclusive not exclusive, loving not judgemental.  Yes, jai guru!

– "The past is history, the future a mystery, the present a gift — that is why they call it the present." Allen Schmeltz Sacramento, California USA Home Page: http://home.att.net/~aum-guru/index.html

Response:

Dear One…  your answer was great..

Response:

I wonder what is more UNATURAL.. your repulsion of  homosexuality..  or the newfound DUALITY[ i.e. judgemental, pontificating, self rightousness illusions] in your HETROSEXUALITY.. ????it seems you went out of the  frying pan .. and into the fire  so to speak..

Response:

I am a recent member to this newsgroup but a longtime devotee of Paramahansa Yogananda.   I was interested about the discussion on homosexuality.  To my mind, Yogananda teaches moderation in any sexual expression but I have never felt homosexuality viewed as an ‘evil’ among devotees.  There are many homosexuals who are devotees of master.  Mostly because he is inclusive not exclusive, loving not judgemental.  Yes, jai guru!

Response:

From your hysterical replies to some posters in this thread, it’s obvious this topic touches one (or several) of your raw nerves. This is laughable. There is NO RAW NERVE. it really is just an observation of

that poor chap who is trying to justify his own actions..at the expense of others..   I couldn’t care less whether he is Homosexual or not.. What gives him the right to condemn anyone who is in a lifestlye that  is not complimentary to his.. ???.. just cause it wasn’t for him???? does making him "straight" make him any better of a person??? i think not.. his realm of consciousness  is for him to deal with..  my point was to live your OWN life.. and let others be.. it came off as Judgmental and self righteous.  Rather than an understanding of what his situation is all about.. If People are Gay or Straight. it really makes no difference. But I feel it serves no purpose to condemn the lifestyle of another to elevate oneself..  for that in itself is nothing more than ego producing activity.. And I feel in any spiritual discipline the object is to reduce ego producing activity..  and not capitalize on the inherited and born conditionings of others to confirm his state of existence.. Obviously you still haven’t come to terms with your own homosexuality, and you recoil at the very mention of the word. OBVIOUSLY??? .. you say OBVIOUSLY.. This is laughable also.. and I certainly

DO NOT recoil at "the very mention of the word," where in the world do you get that from??? Now I know what they mean in the saying ASSUMED KNOWLEDGE IS A What does that say about *your* own struggles with duality?

It says nothing about my own struggle with duality. nor does it deal with anything concerning duality on my part.. .but it does address the issues that i hold strongly.. labeling people as "right or Wrong".. is nobodies business. we all are what we are..  and that’s  for the person on their own spiritual path to decide.. not  some labeling pontificating  holier than thou "seen the light" types.. all that person was doing was CONFIRMING his own ego.. yet….from my own observations about ANY spiritual vehicle is to negate  that consciousness. called the EGO.. which is personal.. and nobody else’s business..   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hmmm…… Did you purse your lips when you typed in "Hmmm?.. just curious???

Response:

""The ’serpent’ represents the coiled-up spinal energy that stimulates the sex nerves.

I am surprised that he would dismiss something as important to yoga as kundalini as nothing but this. Is this really all that P.Y. thought of kundalini?  What about its ascent to the higher cakras? "Esse qua esse bonum est (being, as being, is good)."–St. Augustine

Response:

What is the Self-Realization Fellowship view of homosexuality? It’s totally missing from all their literature.  A person recently told me that there were a lot of homosexuals in SRF. Has anyone ever gotten an answer from SRF on what their official teaching on homosexuality is?

SRF does not have a teaching on homosexuality per se, their only teachings on sexuality being very general and relating to heterosexual sex. However, I can say that I have been able to cure myself of homosexuality completely using the SRF teachings, not just the ones that have to do with sexuality but all of their teachings in general.  I have gone from being what I considered myself to be a 100% homosexual 6 years ago when I started the lessons to a complete heterosexual today, and very happy about it.  This change took place gradually over the first 3 years I would say.  The last 3 years I have been enjoying my life free of the stigma and uncomfortableness of being a homosexual, and I can’t even imagine myself being a homosexual today.  The very thought seems unnatural and revolting to me, and I must say that I am very happy with that!  I am just basking in the glow of success and being free of a horrible evil, it feels absolutely great, and it’s all thanks to SRF and Paramahansaji for the wonderful teachings! Jai Guru!

Response:

  Forgive me if I offend anyone, but is not sexuality a gift as sacred as any other?  I’m sure that most posters here are familiar with the Tantric practices of channeling erotic energy into the higher chakras.  Is it not just as sacred for two men who love each other or two women who love each other to engage in such practices as it is for a man and a woman? If we truly love God/dess then why are we so quick to criticize his/her creativity?  Homosexuality and bisexuality are natural expressions of physical desire.  Biologists see such activity among some members of almost every species on this beautiful planet.  Among human beings, it is often an expression of deep interpersonal love which is often stronger than many heterosexual marriages. If we are not our bodies, then surely interpersonal love can  transcend gender. If you were a person who normally regarded yourself as heterosexual, yet you never met a person whith whom you felt a deep connection, would you turn love away if you happened to recognize that connection in someone of the same gender as yourself?  Our higher selves prevent each one of us with challenges and opportunities for learning and growth.  It is not the role of human beings to project our half-baked morals onto The Divine, it is our role open ourselves up to the wisdom that The Divine brings to us from within..

Response:

What is the Self-Realization Fellowship view of homosexuality?

SRF does not have a teaching on homosexuality per se, their only teachings on sexuality being very general and relating to heterosexual sex.

That is right, they hold to the view of Paramahansa Yogananda : "Continued sex-abuse impairs the nervous system and effects the heart, eventually destroying peace and happiness. Mankind must realize that the basic nature of the soul is spiritual. For man and woman to look upon each other only as a means to satisfy lust is to court the destruction of happiness." That is we should apply control and common sense to our desire and attachment whether to the same or other sex and transform them to Divine Love. Forgive me if I offend anyone, but is not sexuality a gift as sacred as any other?  I’m sure that most posters here are familiar with the Tantric practices of channeling erotic energy into the higher chakras.

Without true Guru, without right motivation and without strenuous preparation these sexual Tantric practices, the most refine form is practised at the stage of completion of Highest Yoga Tantra system, will lead the practitioner to destruction. Is it not just as sacred for two men who love each other or two women who love each other to engage in such practices as it is for a man and a woman?

These practices are not for those who are not beyond sentimental attachment. If you were a person who normally regarded yourself as heterosexual, yet you never met a person whith whom you felt a deep connection, would you turn love away if you happened to recognize that connection in someone of the same gender as yourself?  Our higher selves prevent each one of us with challenges and opportunities for learning and growth.  It is not the role of human beings to project our half-baked morals onto The Divine, it is our role open ourselves up to the wisdom that The Divine brings to us from within..

Why do we have to degrade this *deep connection* to grosser forms of homosexuality? Alex

Response:

I myself have never understood homosexuality.  It’s not a very important topic for me,

Dear Sir.. it may not  be important to you.. but it is a STARTING POINT for many..  its is the BEGINNING of ones awareness..  wethaer it be  gay or straight.. .  but when socioligical programmes are so ingraind..  it is difficult to see that.. people have been "doing IT’  since the beginning of time..  and not to procreate.. I Agree that sex for procreation is one thing.  but the world  is not like that today.. now has it been..  for thousands of years.. the Gurus were right..  but the real guru.. sage  etc.. lets life Involve .. or Evolve.. as is necessary..  realizeing that its all EGO produceing activity..  adn that in itself is dangerous..   for those who  are already caught up in the  would of Indvidualized Consciouness.. in other words..  one may not be able to see the forest throught the trees..  You seem  a bit "self Righteous".. and  in your own "blindness".. it is not YOUR issue..  but  the issue of those who are in seach of thier own SPIRITUAL ORIGIN.. and if it be that  topic… i.e. homosexuality.. thats thier business.  they have that right to ask.. you  may have everythin g in your  safe world.. concealed with  all its safe intelliectual theories.. but not everyone works that way.. The "GUIDELINES set by the master.. are jsut that.. GUDELINES.. they are not a way of life for those who are struggeling along the path…  many of those in seach.. if wise.. choose those..  thoughts etc..  but its STILL  THIER CHOICE.. one has to EXPERIENCE ONESELF.. to understand that which is spoken. .    According to most yoga paths, and even in many non-yoga religious teachings, one who is really serious about getting to know God reduces all of his or her worldly activities to a minimum (usually limiting them to making a living, feeding and cleaning the body and one’s dwelling place, and the absolute most necessary duties to one’s family and community) so as to spend as much time as possible seeking God (in prayer, in meditation, in yoga practice, as each case may be).

these austerities DONT make person any closer to  GOD.. for AUSTERITES ARE JUST AS MUCH A TRAP AS YOUR INTELLECTULIZATION How do they justify or explain their engaging in behavior that is heavily proscribed by spiritual authorities of many religions and paths, including the yogic one, such as a man penetrating another man anally, "man lying with another man as he does with woman", etc.?

You  have stated in the beginnning of your intellectual  pontification  that you really dont care eetc.. and now in this statement you ask for justification of others actions.. Wouldn’t this mean that a homosexual can just "rewire" the way his or her mind thinks and instantly make themselves straight?

Sure..  just as easily as they can Change the colous of thier eyes.. and  the colour of thier hair.. If everything is mind, as all the great masters tell us, including Buddha, Yogananda, etc., then it appears one can do with his or her mind anything one wants, including changing from a homosexual frame of reference to a heterosexual one, no?

and maybe we could all change the colour of our skin/// and we could all Look like Buddha.. or Christ..  or any other sage. huh???after all .. it is THE MIND as you say… Dear Sir.. your last 2 questions show how foollish and shallow your EXERIENCE with your own INNER  SELF is.. when you  Experience your SELF.. and  let go of the "self",, you may very well be on the threshold of a very LONG LONG path.. and not   preoccupy yourself with the actions of others to confirm your own existance.. which in  its  own state.. is really NON existant..

Response:

Given all of the above, how do homosexuals in SRF or in any other yogic path justify spending their time and energy in something which goes in the opposite direction of the yogic path — wasting one’s energy and creative fluid by dissipating it outward, instead of gathering it inwardly for penetrating the higher chakras, where the so-called seat of the divine is?

How do any of us justify the use of the sex force for other than procreative purposes?  Wasting the creative energy isn’t a problem limited to homosexuals alone. If SRF teaches that we are the soul, not the body, and that we can change anything we want or that is not helping us achieve our goal of finding God, or that is not in accordance with God’s will, why then can’t a homosexual say "okay, I am the soul, and in this particular body, I am a man, so I am not supposed to have sexual relations with another man"?  According to the SRF teachings, it seems anything in this world is possible, one only has to exercise his will.  Wouldn’t this mean that a homosexual can just "rewire" the way his or her mind thinks and instantly make themselves straight?

Yes, I suppose this is true.  But why "rewire" yourself to be straight?  Why not simply bypass all sexual activity and direct the mind and life force Godward.  Of course anything is possible.  But I’m sure you know as well as anyone how difficult it is to change a habit, especially one developed in a past life.  It may be easy to say "I’m a man, so I can’t have sex with another man", but it takes time to change.   Why not show a little compassion for those who may not be able to "rewire" themselves just yet. If everything is mind, as all the great masters tell us, including Buddha, Yogananda, etc., then it appears one can do with his or her mind anything one wants, including changing from a homosexual frame of reference to a heterosexual one, no?

Again, it comes back to what you want.  If you want to change yourself from homo to hetero, you can but would that help you realize God more quickly? Seems like it would be better to simply think of oneself as asexual in this situation. It seems that many view homosexuality as karmic, and that it needs to be worked out. That’s very interesting.  Would that imply that homosexuality really is a phase, something that gays have argued vehemently against, and that as such all that is needed is to let it run it’s course, and when it’s over, the "bad karma" has passed and the person reverts to the "default setting" which is heterosexuality? Does it mean it has to be worked out in the physical sense (sex) or can it be burned by doing yoga?  I remember Yogananda said something like one does not have to experience every possible human condition to attain liberation.  One can burn many of the bad karma seeds by meditating until the seeds just get roasted and are burned up for good.  And what does all this mean for homosexuals in SRF or any other yogic path?

I don’t know about any "default setting".  If there is one it probably is without desire for sex.  Yes, one can burn the seeds of Karma by practicing yoga and one need not go through every human experience.  This would seem to imply hetero as well as homosexual experience.  It seems the best course would be abstinence for gays (as well as everyone) practicing yoga with emphasis on transmuting desire for sex into desire for God and higher spiritual experiences.  Again, I’ll say that everyone may not be able to do this. Just as a straight man or woman may be living with a partner before they find the yoga path, a gay man or woman may already have a relationship with someone and they may not want or be able to abstain from sex.  Does living in a loving relationship with another human being  constitute wrongdoing if sex is involved?  It may not be pure or ideal, but is loving someone wrong? I believe we have to practice compassion, love and understanding for all. Are these not essential qualities on the spiritual path?  Are any of us perfect?(yet)

Response:

What is the Self-Realization Fellowship view of homosexuality?
It’s totally missing from all their literature.  A person recently told me
that there were a lot of homosexuals in SRF.
Has anyone ever gotten an answer from SRF on what their official teaching on
homosexuality is?

First let me apologize for my typing and spelling in advance!!!
Guruji spoke and wrote many times on the subject of sex if that is your real question. If you are wondering how Guruji felt about two people of the same gender loving each other with pure spiritual love, open any book written by Paramahansa Yogananda and read his words describing his love and relationship for and with his master Sri Yukteswar.
Some excerpts on the sex subject;
Guruji says in the Autobiography of a Yogi pages 145-146,196
"Students seeking to escape from the maya-induces sex delusion received from Sri Yukteswar patient and understanding counsel.
""Just as hunger, not greed, has been implanted by Nature solely for the propagation of the species, not for the kindling of insatiable longing,"" he said. ""Destroy growing desires now; other wise they will remain with you after the astral body has been separated from its physical casing…."
"The spinal cord is like an upturned tree, with man’s hair as its roots, and afferent and efferent nerves as branches. The tree of the nervous system bears many enjoyable fruits, or sensations of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. In these, man may rightfully indulge; but he was forbidden the experience of sex, the ‘apple’ at the center of the body (‘in the midst of the garden’)
   ""The ’serpent’ represents the coiled-up spinal energy that stimulates the sex nerves. ‘Adam’ is reason, and ‘Eve’ is feeling. When the emotion or Eve- consciousness in any human being is overpowered by the sex impulse, his reason or Adam also succumbs""…"the warning not to revive subconsciously present bestial memories was unheeded. Resuming the way of brute procreation…"
In the SRF lessons
"the balanced way to Self-realization consists in practicing exercises and principles that simultaneously control and harmonize breath, life force, mind, and vital power. Therefore, every spiritual aspirant should practice certain breathing exercises, special techniques controlling energy flowing in the sensory motor nerves, methods of mental meditation, and principles of calmness-producing celibacy (or for those who are married, sexual moderation).
and in his beautiful Bahagavad Gita Verse 1 "The Estate of Procreation: Under Soul’s rule, Prince Controlled Creative Impulse rightly guides the sex inclination, enabling parents to bring on earth, by law of attraction, other noble spiritual human beings like themselves, who will by example guide matter-entangled souls, inspiring them to retrace their footsteps toward spiritual blessedness.
Under Soul’s guidance, the sex impulse in man may also be transmuted into the creation – on a purely spiritual plane – of noble ideas, of artistic masterpieces, of soul-revolutionizing books.
Under the Ego regime, Prince Promiscuity lives in unbridled passion. The bodily kingdom is kept constantly excited and restless with morbid impulses of sex temptation. the insatiable lust imparted to the though-citizens make them sense slaves, subject to moodiness, depression, irritability; the cellular inhabitants suffer debility, ill health, and premature old age and death….
The sex impulse is the single most physically magnetic power that pulls the life and consciousness down from Spirit in the higher centers in the brain, out through the coccygeal center into matter and body consciousness. The beginner in yoga meditation experiences all too definitely how grounded he is by the stubborn attachment of his life and energy to the body, sometimes without realizing that it is his uncontrolled thoughts and acts of sex that are primarily responsible for his earthbound condition. the seeker after Self-realization is therefore urged by yoga to take command of this rebel force; married couples should practice moderation, with love and friendship predominating; the unmarried should abide by the pure laws of celibacy- in thoughts as well as in act."
To me the bottom line is very very clear! 1.We are all waves on the ocean of God, God is love therefore it is normal and right to love any and everyone. Through Karma and memories of past live experiences that are stored in the shsumna (sp?) we are attracted to some more than others that

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